Okay, I want in on this one to.. How do you know if its a Pintoloosa or Pinto??
I bred a black & white pinto mare to a leopard appaloosa stallion. The first is a
snowcap appaloosa colt, I can not figure out the last 3... are they pinto's or pintoloosa's? Do they always make Pintoloosa's? The last is a filly, she has a wild
back left hind leg. Its black and white with frosting and some black spots in it, does this make her a pintoloosa? I took some pictures, have to get them developed and then will post them. The middle 2 colts look pinto, I think stripe hoofs, with lots of frosting, is the frosting from the appaloosa and does this make them pintoloosa's? Do the pinto's produce frosting? How do you know which it is?? Help please Appaloosa breeders. Sorry so many questions but sure trying to figure out this one.
The answer to your question IMO is that if the resulting foal from an appy pinto cross has definite pinto markings and any of the appy characteristics ie striped hoofs, frosting, scelera around the nose, eyes etc. then they are considered a pintaloosa. There are quite a few horses out there that are represented as pintaloosa that IMO do not have the necessary characteristics and are misrepresented. If your filly has frosting and spots on her back leg then yes she is exhibiting the appy characteristics.
No you do not neccessarily get a Pintaloosa when you cross a Pinto with an Appy, any more than you get a Pinto when you cross two Pintos- you can get a solid Sorrel from two B&W Pintos!!! A Pintaloosa has to a have an Appy (or Pintaloosa) parent and a Pinto (or Pintaloosa ) parent. Then you stand a chance of a Pintaloosa. A Pintaloosa has - usually- definite Pinto + Appy - it can just have Appy characteristics- ie Sclera round the eye and striped hooves, but things get very complicated if you throw Silver (striped hooves!!) and Snowcap (Homozygous/no spots!!) into the mix!! Assuming your supposed Pintaloosa does not have these and assuming it does have the parental qualifications it should shown definite Pinto and Appy characteristics to qualify.
So.... since this goes against almost everything that I know- what proof have you for your theories?? And what proof have you that the mare shown is a genetic Pintaloosa, since the accepted theories at the moment are that neither Pinto nor Appy are able to "hide" or skip generations?? Sorry this sounds a bit "prickly" it's not meant to be
i too have always been told they ahve to actually show both appy coloring and pinto to be considered a pintalossa. I have one and she definately shows both pinto and appy spots.
A huge problem is some appys dont color out until they are older. I sold a solid sorrel yearling that just now got her appy color at a year and half. *sighs*
Like rabbit though i wonder how you can say that the solid black is pintalossa?? I know alot of horses with generations of pinto that are solid and tested NEGATIVE for the pinto gene. Has that horse been tested??
My mistake, Rabbitfizz, I thot I might have KNOWN something since I've been breeding app & pintaloosa since 1992. I have erased all I've said on this post. I don't like you taking my 20 years of experience & throwing it away as tho it were bull. So, hat's off to you. Now, the board is all yours. I'm gone..............possibly for good. It's been fun being here since 1999, but enough is enough. I may read the board, but commenting is too time consuming & unncessary when someone else knows everything and isn't afraid to let you know it.
well dang it i hope i didnt make this worse with my post!!! I hate to see you leave please reconsider. Rabbit and i have disagreed a ton of times on color theories but we both just take it in stride. I will admit that i am much more well versed on pinto genetics then i am appy.
No expert here, but let me say that when I register my "pintos' in the Pinto registry, they are picky about peviuos generations and if there are appy's they prefer not to register the "pinto", as Pinto.
Hmm, Ok.....did put a half apology in my post, but, well.......since you mention it, I've only been doing this most of my life
The first foal I bred was Appy, over 40 years ago, and I got interested in the genetics (which were almost purely educated guesses in those days) Since there is NO test for Appy, and Appy CANNOT be "carried" I stand by what I said, I am afraid. I know this is not the case in Wee Horses case, but I have seen so much "price pushing" involved around "Appy Bred" solid horses, with NO Appy characteristics, and therefore NOT Appy and having no more chance of throwing Appy than any other solid horse, that I do get very wary of this sort of thing.
Just to add my 2 cents worth slightly off the topic. I am very active into pinto and have passed up many horses that had appy backgrounds as I couldn't register them in the pinto association. Think long and hard before making this cross as you are cutting out a market for your foals by having pintaloosas.