what is this

[Charlotte]

I have one!

Cowboy, 25 1/2", at his 5th birthday party and official measuring.

Or actually, If they are any horse under 30", I guess I have a bunch of them.

Buttons

Giggles

La La

Well, I guess almost all of my broodmares are under 30" I've got a whole HERD of 'micro minis'!

Whatever you want to call 'em, We got 'em!

Actually, when Frank and I bought our first mini....in '91 I think it was....we both felt that if we were buying a 'miniature' horse, we wanted SMALL horses! Now unfortunately in my opinion, our registries allow our judges to not follow our rules and standard of perfection in their judging. Our rules and standard speak of the smallest horse in a class having preference if it is a correct BALANCED horse. In today's show ring that doesn't happen often.

BUT HEY! We take our 'micro minis' out there and they win! Sometimes even competing with 34"ers! I'll tell you, it's so much fun to be the underdog and beat the bigs.

Charlotte

 

[Becky]

It takes creative advertising to sell a product in this day and age. Selling horses is no different. Using descriptive adjectives is certainly one way to do it.

Obviously, it worked in the case of this advertiser as the ad has a whole group of people discussing it!

 

[horsehug]

Having always wanted to breed TINY but beautiful correct miniature horses....... I have to agree with Songcatcher, Mindy Lee, Minimor, Castle Rock, Charlotte and Becky.

Is just means very small correct minis to me.

Beautiful horses by the way in your pics, Charlotte!

It is great to breed horses that can "Do" something for those who choose to do that, and I have some of those also. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with breeding tiny ones if for no other reason than to LOVE and look at and admire in your pasture either. And those are what I think of when I hear the term Micro minis.

Also I take mine to visit our local nursing home each year and I prefer the tiny ones for that!

Susan O.

 

[Genie]

Having always wanted to breed TINY but beautiful correct miniature horses....... I have to agree with Songcatcher, Mindy Lee, Minimor, Castle Rock, Charlotte and Becky.

Is just means very small correct minis to me.

Beautiful horses by the way in your pics, Charlotte!

It is great to breed horses that can "Do" something for those who choose to do that, and I have some of those also. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with breeding tiny ones if for no other reason than to LOVE and look at and admire in your pasture either. And those are what I think of when I hear the term Micro minis.

Also I take mine to visit our local nursing home each year and I prefer the tiny ones for that!

Susan O.

Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jill]

One of the neatest things about minis is there's room for everyone to find what they appreciate in the breed and pursue it

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I have one!

Cowboy, 25 1/2", at his 5th birthday party and official measuring.

Or actually, If they are any horse under 30", I guess I have a bunch of them.

Buttons

Giggles

La La

Well, I guess almost all of my broodmares are under 30" I've got a whole HERD of 'micro minis'!

Whatever you want to call 'em, We got 'em!

Actually, when Frank and I bought our first mini....in '91 I think it was....we both felt that if we were buying a 'miniature' horse, we wanted SMALL horses! Now unfortunately in my opinion, our registries allow our judges to not follow our rules and standard of perfection in their judging. Our rules and standard speak of the smallest horse in a class having preference if it is a correct BALANCED horse. In today's show ring that doesn't happen often.

BUT HEY! We take our 'micro minis' out there and they win! Sometimes even competing with 34"ers! I'll tell you, it's so much fun to be the underdog and beat the bigs.

Charlotte

Charlotte, here is the problem as I see it. You do indeed have tiny, under 30 horses as do I. I've never heard you describe one for sale as a micro mini. And I'm willing to bet I know why. Because you, like me, have never seen one described as such that wasn't a) either a dwarf or b) a conformational trainwreck. You have QUALITY horses.

The reason it drives me crazy? It's just another thing that gives mini breeders a bad name. IN MY OPINION,which the last time I checked I am entitled to, it panders to those who don't know any better and think they are getting something special when in fact it would be an embarrassment for 9 out of 10 reputable breeders.

You will never hear me call Raven or Poopy or Bink or Pete or ANY horse of mine a micro mini. And I'm willing to bet Charlotte won't be either any time soon.

In case it wasn't obvious, I have strong feelings about this.

 

[Matt73]

Personally, I find it a bit disturbing that there are so many on here that are so anxious to make fun of and condemn a person's choice of descriptions in an ad.

While is is not my choice of terminology to use, each has a right to use their own descriptions. Many of your reactions are the same as "Big Horse" people have toward the term "Miniature Horse".

For all I know, this could be one of our own Forum members you are belittleing on here.

[/quo

It's the connotation that "micro" carries that people are making fun of. That's all. People aren't belittling a person, just the term.

 

[MindyLee]

FACT:

I can say for a fact that for folks who breed minis or any equine for that fact if not any breed of animal, Look at it this way, "most" everyones breeding programs have smaller stallions or animal studs for their mares or females for safty reasons. If everyone bred for BIG only we again run into problems with complacated births. So regardless of the size, if you breed, buy, or sell what you like and dont like, we need different sized animals to keep conformation going strong in any breed of animals.

NO ONE should attack any breeding program cause of what they breed for or the terms they use to discribe their breed cause you dont like it. Get the facts 1st before you assume!

 

[Jill]

FACT:

I can say for a fact that for folks who breed minis or any equine for that fact if not any breed of animal, Look at it this way, most everyones breeding programs have smaller stallions or animal studs for their mares or females for safty reasons. If everyone bred for BIG only we again run into problems with complacated births. So regardless of the size, if you breed, buy, or sell what you like and dont like, we need different sized animals to keep conformation going strong in any breed of animals.

I don't think that's a fact actually... We've bred smaller mares to taller stallions and had no issue. It's more about the build than the height. Destiny's taller than some of my mares including ones he's made great foals with, and I have bred to a taller (than my mare) outside stallion before with very pleasing results. I feel the refinement of the build is more important than the height when it comes to stallion x mare. And, appart from minis, think of all the high end sport ponys that are made by crossing Welsh mares to TB stallions... same thing, really.

 

[Matt73]

FACT:

I can say for a fact that for folks who breed minis or any equine for that fact if not any breed of animal, Look at it this way, "most" everyones breeding programs have smaller stallions or animal studs for their mares or females for safty reasons. If everyone bred for BIG only we again run into problems with complacated births. So regardless of the size, if you breed, buy, or sell what you like and dont like, we need different sized animals to keep conformation going strong in any breed of animals.

NO ONE should attack any breeding program cause of what they breed for or the terms they use to discribe their breed cause you dont like it. Get the facts 1st before you assume!

What?! What you're saying is false. I think you're missing the point here

There are plenty of 17+h stallions out there being bred to 16.0+h mares (and smaller). Size and conformation are two completely separate issues. Why so defensive? No one is attacking anyone. And, yes, people have a right to an opinion; are we supposed to tiptoe through the tulips, skipping along, laughing merrily? lol. People can't have an opinion?

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

What?! What you're saying is false. I think you're missing the point here

There are plenty of 17+h stallions out there being bred to 16.0+h mares (and smaller). Size and conformation are two completely separate issues. Why so defensive? No one is attacking anyone. And, yes, people have a right to an opinion; are we supposed to tiptoe through the tulips, skipping along, laughing merrily? lol. People can't have an opinion?

Matt is totally correct, and MindyLee I believe YOU need to check your FACTS.

The ad that started this discussion reffered to size (as in "micro") when in reality it's about the conformation. Most of us, well many of us, have under 30" minis. Heck, that's my preference!

And I also have 3 mature horses at 28" or under. Used to have more. But when you are dealing with minis that small, it seems that maintaining quality conformation - and I'm not talking about preferences like long neck, short back, I'm talking about the REQUIREMENTS for a sound animal - good legs, good bite, freedom of movement in the shoulder, etc....well, it just gets harder and harder to accomplish. So instead of working even harder to attain that quality that is desired, some just seem to give up and continually breed lesser quality animals and then to find a "market" for them they come up with a gimmick. And there are TONS of gimmicks out there, but one of them is to call the horse a "micro" mini. IN MY EXPERIENCE, I have NEVER seen a mini advertised as "micro" that when I looked at the picture I didn't groan in disgust. I'd be happy to be proven wrong!

Show me some minis advertised as "micro" that are decent quality animals. And if they don't have the conformation for breeding, then show me where they are advertised as "pets." What I've seen is ads like "look at this beautiful, correct mico mini stallion to add to your herd" and what I see is ghastly.

I have not seen the ad in question. Don't even look at the saleboard these days - haven't in months. If this is some reputable breeder with a quality animal they are referring to as micro, then I apologize to them. But I am entitled to my opinion which is based on my experiences. And my experiences tell me that when I see the word "micro" in regard to a mini for sale, I know what to expect without even looking at the ad.

Look at the pictures Charlotte posted. Have YOU Mindy, ever clicked on an ad titled "micro mini" and seen a horse of that quality? If so, I'd love to see it.

Everyone has the right to breed whatever quality they want. They also have the right to advertise it (obviously there are some legal issues in some cases) as they wish. But I also have a right to say publically that I think it's a load of CRAP!

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Thank you Freeland and others.. BUT honestly there are a lot of NEW people that are getting into Miniature horses that NEVER heard of the term Micro Mini.. In stead of making fun of the term, lets try to educate people... as these are the future owners of Miniature horses.. I get every-so-often a e-mail asking about ""Micro Minis".. and I explain to them it is just a term some people use for the smaller Miniature horses.. This CAN be done without insulting people you know...

And those are the folks that I worry about. It's wonderful of you to educate them and hopefully along with that they gain an understanding of conformation. Sadly, the ones that have contacted me about micro minis were under the impression, from seeing the ads, etc., that simply smaller meant better and also thought that dwarves were acceptable for breeding purposes since they give you small.

It's like any advertising fad. Eventually people will figure it out for the most part. But like the guide horse thread recently, there will also be people who dont really understand that they are being taken for a ride. If people are willing to pay four figures because they think dwarves are somehow cool and want to make more, then there will always be a certain element of folks willing to provide them with what they want. Sadly, what they end up with is a lot of medical bills and eventually heartache.

Bless the people like Bill and WannaLyn (hope I spelled that right

) who understand the plight of these little angels and try to provide them a safe place to live where they arent' exploited.

Again, It's the newbies I worry about. I hate to see people taken advantage of. I was fortunate enough that my first mini contact was with Dixi of Knee Hi Acres who came right out and told me about dwarfism and all the other scams/fads/whatever you want to call them. She told me upfront that you can breed two of the most beautiful horses and end up with a dwarf - it happens. But she also told me how to do my best to avoid it and the real truth about caring for one. She didn't glamorize it in the least and I will always appreciate her honesty with me, a perfect stranger to her at the time.

But even with that education, it took me time to train my eye. A couple of years into owning minis, I bought a horse advertised here on the sale board as "perfect in every way." Well, that should have been my first clue!

She was the pedigree I like, had the "look" I liked at the time, seemed to have good conformation (based on my eye at the time) so I bought her. Paid four figures for her. She arrived, I had Dixi over to see my new horse and I could tell immediately from the look on her face something wasn't right. She very gently pointed out some of the conformation issues with the mare and then I saw them!

It was like a lightbulb going on! I'd just bought a dwarf!!! "Minimal" whatever that really means...a dwarf is a dwarf, but none the less I'd bought one - as a breeding animal!

I turned around and sold her for $100 to a woman wanting a companion for her other dwarf mare with a contract that stated she wasn't to ever be bred. Sadly, I found out a few years later she was sold to someone else who didn't know any better and was being used for breeding.

I even purchased another filly, a couple of years after that one, that as a baby was stunning. As she matured I saw the signs. Now she's in a non-breeding home and living a wonderful life! Spoiled freakin' rotten!

My point it, it's hard enough to pick out quality horses without someone glamorizing them as "micro" when it's really just a small horse. Who's to say what micro is? Under 30"? Under 28"? Under 26"? It's just a misleading gimmick used to line someone's pocket. At best the buyer gets a tiny, healthy horse. But at worst, they get years of medical bills and unexpected heartache. Just makes me sad.

For the people and the horses.

Ok, I'm done. I've lost enough of my life that I'll never get back on this thread.

 

[horsehug]

This has been an interesting thread to me. I am always learning

As others have said, we are all entitled to our own opinion. And I can see how if some people have only ever heard or seen the term Micro mini as describing badly conformed minis or even dwarfs, that it might upset them or at best make them choose not to use that term.

But that has not been my experience. The first time I remember ever hearing that term was around 10 to 15 years ago. I found a website with beautiful minis on it and it went on to describe their three different programs as their Micro mini program, their Appy program and their Buckeroo program.

Anyone who knows me knows I love Appys, I love Buckeroo and I love Tiny minis.

I had not heard it used derogatorily so it did not register with me that way. They had beautiful appys, beautiful Buckeroo bred minis and beautiful Tiny minis.

Then some years later I met another person who also had a nice website with beautiful minis and they also chose to refer to their tinier ones as their Micro mini program. They also had a very nice Buckeroo program as well.

So in my experience it was not used in a bad way. And that has been my experience with that term.

Susan O.

 

[ohmt]

Here you go Parmela: LINK

The website of a lady that often advertises her 'micro' minis on the saleboard. They are quality and she is not trying to trick anyone into buying anything-she focuses on 28" and under.

I do see where people get upset about advertisements that have 'micro' minis when in fact they are just poor quality horses and the owners have come up with a gimmick to sell them to someone who doesn't know better. BUT, the advertisements that I've seen on THIS forum have not been that all. Micro does in fact mean 'smaller than normal' so the use of micro for 28" and under (quality) horses in my book is just fine. I personally don't use it, but I'm not going to think less of anyone else who does unless I know that they're using it as a gimmick for people less educated on miniatures.

 

[sdmini]

Coming from someone who does not raise "micro" minis I've no vested interest in it's usage. I do not see a issue with using it, when I hear "micro" I think small, not dwarfy, not ill-conformed...just small.

Heavens people if we are going to take people to task for their advertising tactics the first on the firing range should be those that use the word "Arabian". I've never seen a 34" advertised as "micro" but plenty of big headed, heavy boned, long backed proclaimed to be "Arabian in miniature". I've seen plenty of peanut rolling horses touted as "high stepping" and colors proclaimed "rare" when they are not.

Face it our breed name is colorful marketing, closer to reality we should be the Miniature Pony Association not the Miniature Horse. The founding fathers used "horse" to distinguish themselves from the already in existence small ponies. So why is it so offensive to use the word micro to distinguish the smaller from the taller?

 

[Charlotte]

Because you, like me, have never seen one described as such that wasn't a) either a dwarf or b) a conformational trainwreck

Have to disagree with you Parmela. What I usually see are poor pictures of what are actually decent little horses. People can use colorful adjectives to describe their horses in any way they choose. The term micro shouldn’t automatically mean defect. It doesn’t to me and I don't know why it would to anybody else.

So, HAPPY SPRING TO EVERYBODY!

Charlotte

 

[MindyLee]

For all who disagree with me that size dont matter BUT confirmation is #1

I was more then less talking apples to oranges, not apples to apples.

What I mean is Size dose play a huge factor when it comes to breeding as well as confirmation. How many folks/breeders do you know say... well my beautiful correct refined 38" stallion whos confirmation is perfect in every way would cross perfectly with my 31.5" mare who also has perfect confirmation will produce that blowout 'PERFECT" foal? The only thing I think is blownout would be the poor mares uterus. Same way with other breeds pure or mixed like example dogs: no one would ever breed a collie stud to a female sheltie cause he was refined and perfect confirmation, maybe a another male sheltie who is possibly be a tad bit bigger but bone confirmation is better then hers. Or lets be silly here, a chocolate lab to a min pin cause the male lab has great confirmation.

Im not talking 1/2" - 3" differance cause I too have a 31.75" stallion who I have tried to breed to my "micro" 29" mare where both have very nice conformation, and feel confertable doing so without a bad outcome. BUT I do have a 2 yr old "ultra refined micro" 27.75" filly who I feel because of her small boned features could NEVER be bred to him or my 30.5" stallion in the future as I know for a fact it would kill her. I personally dont believe there's any stallion out there no matter how small and perfect confirmation he is, I still could'nt breed her. And as a responsible breeder, I will never sell her to a breeding home and have decided to keep her here with me so she stays safe, plus shes my baby girl.

So I guess Im sorry for not better wording my last post but Because there is newbies out there who dont know any better maybe we should explane both size and confirmation to someone new instead of just confirmation. Because both go hand in hand.

 

[Jill]

Thank you Freeland and others.. BUT honestly there are a lot of NEW people that are getting into Miniature horses that NEVER heard of the term Micro Mini.. In stead of making fun of the term, lets try to educate people... as these are the future owners of Miniature horses.. I get every-so-often a e-mail asking about ""Micro Minis".. and I explain to them it is just a term some people use for the smaller Miniature horses.. This CAN be done without insulting people you know...

Those are also the people who are at risk of buying a WCMHR only horse and thinking they really got a registered mini

 

[midnight star stables]

I don't think that's a fact actually... We've bred smaller mares to taller stallions and had no issue. It's more about the build than the height. Destiny's taller than some of my mares including ones he's made great foals with, and I have bred to a taller (than my mare) outside stallion before with very pleasing results. I feel the refinement of the build is more important than the height when it comes to stallion x mare. And, appart from minis, think of all the high end sport ponys that are made by crossing Welsh mares to TB stallions... same thing, really.

This is the theory I just too. My mares have been bred to bigger boys, I'm just picky which ones.

In reference to "mirco" mini, it is an advertisement that I don't care for, and rarely a type of horse that I'd be in the market for. I don't dislike those horses nor the people that use the term, just not my cup of miniature tea.

 

[supaspot]

over here micro minis have classes of their own as its deemed unfair for them to compete against the taller miniature