What color is she?

[EllieB]

Oh, ok. That makes sense. It would be neat if she carried silver; I've always been a big fan of the silvers.

 

[EllieB]

Actually, something isn't quite making sense to me.

Ok, Silver acts only one Black-based horses. It can be carried by red-based, but does not show.

Palomino is a red-based horse who has 1 creme dilute gene.

Correct?

So in her case, she could be either a Palomino carrying Silver, OR she could be Silver Dapple carrying the creme dilute.

If she were Palomino carrying Silver, it would not show on her, as she would be a red-based horse.

I'm thinking the only way I could really tell if she were a Silver Dapple would be to have her genetic tested for Black, and if that came back positive, then it would have to be the silver acting on the black to make her appear as she does. And she'd have to be a creme dilute carrier to have made this colt.

Do I have all that straight?

 

[Gizzmoe]

I just did a quick run through of your reply and yep sounds correct.... but that would just tell you if she was a silver based on black gene and not a pally with possible silver.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

She is DEFINITELY not a Palomino

If she carries the Dilute gene she is a Smoky Silver Black.

Silver is only said to be "carried" if it is known to be in a Red based horse, which does not show Silver, otherwise Silver exhibits clearly as it has done with your filly.

So, Dam is Silver Bay, Filly is Smoky Silver Black, foal is obviously Double Dilute, BUT could also be Silver as well, it would be almost impossible to se on a Double Dilute.

 

[EllieB]

Thank you for the reply, Jane. I was hoping you'd hop on with some insight; you know all about these color things

Good, now I don't have to send in the papers & switch her color again; already did it once & changed her from Sorrel (original owners had her as sorrel) to Silver-Dapple. I felt kind of foolish resending them in & changing her to Palomino if that had been what she was.

And with her colt, unless he were bred later and produced silver foals, there would really be no way of knowing if he did indeed carry Silver, correct?

 

[wiccanz]

My mother-in-law has a mare this colour, I know she won't mind me posting a pic. Please note in the pic her mane is sun-bleached, and is usually a shade darker than the body. She has some mottling of the skin, and amber eyes, but is definately not a champagne as she has no champagne parents (there are not that many champagnes down this end of the world).

We DNA'd her as she was registered as a silver chocolate, but she carries one copy of the dilute gene, and we feel she is a silver chocolate buckskin, for want of a better term! Her sire was registered as a red roan, and her dam was registered as a silver dapple. Obviously, one of them wasn't quite correct.

Edited to add: Just found her DNA result, she also carries Ee (Both black and red factors detected. Horse can be assumed to be heterozygous for the red factor (Ee); either E or e transmitted to offspring. Basic color is black, bay or brown in the absence of other modifying genes.)

And she carries a (Only recessive allele detected. Black pigment distributed uniformly. Basic color is black in the absence of other modifying genes.)

So does that make her a smokey black??? Or possibley silver smokey black??

 

[Mona]

My guess would be silver dapple.

 

[Dona]

Edited to add: Just found her DNA result, she also carries Ee (Both black and red factors detected. Horse can be assumed to be heterozygous for the red factor (Ee); either E or e transmitted to offspring. Basic color is black, bay or brown in the absence of other modifying genes.)

And she carries a (Only recessive allele detected. Black pigment distributed uniformly. Basic color is black in the absence of other modifying genes.)

So does that make her a smokey black??? Or possibley silver smokey black??

None of the DNA reports I've gotten show the "color factor" letters. Are you sure you aren't looking at a "color testing" report?

 

[Meavey]

Edited to add: Just found her DNA result, she also carries Ee (Both black and red factors detected. Horse can be assumed to be heterozygous for the red factor (Ee); either E or e transmitted to offspring. Basic color is black, bay or brown in the absence of other modifying genes.)

And she carries a (Only recessive allele detected. Black pigment distributed uniformly. Basic color is black in the absence of other modifying genes.)

So does that make her a smokey black??? Or possibley silver smokey black??

If she carries creme, she is a smokey black + silver, smokey black alone wouldn´t look like that.

 

[wiccanz]

None of the DNA reports I've gotten show the "color factor" letters. Are you sure you aren't looking at a "color testing" report?

Sorry, should have clarified, yes it's a colour DNA test.

If she carries creme, she is a smokey black + silver, smokey black alone wouldn´t look like that.

Yes, you are correct, I actually have a smokey black mare, and she is a very dark brown with black points, just looks like a dark brown horse :bgrin

 

[crponies]

Wow! That foal is very white! Perhaps her sire is actually smoky black and your girl is a smoky silver dapple. She definitely looks silver dapple.

 

[EllieB]

Yes, it is very possible that her sire was a Smokey Black & White. I've never seen him. I was just going off her papers for his color & they list him as a B/W Pinto. Her dam is the only one I've seen & she is a Silver Bay.

So my guess is that her dilute gene must have come from the sire's side; she & her colt have made it clear that she's got a dilute gene hiding somewhere in there.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

OK, the sire of the foal is Buckskin??

The foal actually looks more like a maximum expression Sabino or Splash to me- is the Buckskin Pinto??

The Silver Bay Dam does not hide Cream- she cannot, this means if your mare does have Cream her sire has to be a Smoky Black- or not her sire, of course, mistakes can be made!!

Is your mare minimal Pinto- does she have any white on her anywhere??

Do you have other pictures of the foal- it just looks TOO white, to me.

:

 

[Minimor]

Jane, that's what I was thinking too, maximum expression sabino(?), rather than cremello. That foal does look truly white rather than the double dilute sort of white!

 

[EllieB]

No, I don't think it's possible that he could be Max. Exp. Sabino.

The sire of the colt was a solid Buckskin; no white at all. And neither of the sire's parents (colt's grandparents) had any white.

My Mare's (the colt's mother) sire is registered as a B/W Pinto.

My mare (the colt's mother) has no white on her at all.

Neither parent of this colt has any white whatsoever.

Here, maybe this will help:

-- Sire's Sire: Solid Buckskin; No white markings.

- Colt's Sire: Solid Buckskin; No White markings at all.

-- Sire's Dam: Red Roan; No white markings.

Colt: Cremello

-- Dam's Sire: B/W Pinto (possibly Smokey?)

- My Mare (Dam): Smokey Silver Black/Dapple; No White markings at all.

-- Dam's Dam: Silver Bay; No white markings.

Also, the colt has no motteling. His skin is completely pink everywhere. His eyes are blue. Hooves are completely white. He's "yellowed" a bit since he got older, especially on his mane. He was only a few hours old in that picture, and he was out in the bright sunlight, so my digital camera made him look extra-pale.

Max. Expression Sabino typically has mottled skin and dark eyes. I have another mare (completely non-related) who is lab tested Max. Exp. Sabino & she's got the motteling, reddish flecks in various places in her coat, and dark eyes.

:edited to add "family tree"

 

[EllieB]

Thank you all very much for your responses; it's really helped clarify these color things.

I really appreciate it!