Very Sick Mini

[Nikki B]

We have an 8yr mini mare who has had chronic laminitis. My mom had been giving her bute to help with the pain, it's what we have always done for our mini's. She took a turn for the worse a couple of weeks ago. She presented with what looked like bloody urine so they did bloodwork and decided she had Cushings and wanted to start her on Peroglide. After one dose of that she ended up with bloody diarrhea. She has gone off her food, not drinking, dropped a significant amount of weight, keeps looking at her stomach like it hurts or something. Her stools became very dry and the vet had us start her on Red Cell supplement. Then we started seeing blood in her stool again but it wasn't diarrhea.

She gets unsweetened beet pulp and grass hay. That's all either of them get because we are trying so hard to keep both of them sound and have had so many problems with them foundering. We keep them off the pasture in the spring and summer and only let them have pasture in the winter when everything is dry and dead. My mom used to give a senior feed for mini's but the vet told her to stop cause it was causing the laminitis. So now the vet is saying her ACTH is low normal and he thinks she has ulcers so he is prescribing Gastroguard.

Any advice/suggestions??? We are getting really worried about her, she is so very lethargic and just barely picks at her food.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I'm so sorry about your situation. Poor baby, I'm sure she's in great discomfort. I agree with the ulcers thought. If I were you, I would contact directly Targetsmom here on the forum. She is very experienced with ulcers and has a lot of thoughts on things in addition to the gastroguard that you can do to help. But certainly start the GG asap.

Best of luck to you and your minis.

 

[Sandee]

Sounds like ulcers. Bleeding ulcers are very bad, hate to say. The Gastroguard is expensive but if it is ulcers, it should help in just a day or two. Also you may have to follow up the gastroguard treatment with a few weeks of Ulcergard (also omeprazole but somehow less expensive).

 

[Forever Farm]

I rescued a mare that had foundered previously and she was much like your mare- one thing right after another trying to help her. The bute given to ease her pain gave her ulcers and she was so high strung that it took more than a normal dose of GG to keep her comfortable on top of her pain meds. Sadly, she was so miserable and in such declining health that we had to make the hard decision of letting her go. Her quality of life was simply not quality at all.

So sorry you are going through this and hope all goes well for your girl.

 

[targetsmom]

Just happened to see this... By all means, follow your vet's advice, but there are also things you can do that won't hurt and might help.

Bute is VERY hard on the stomach and is probably what is causing the ulcers. Is she still on that? Is she eating the hay and beet pulp? She needs to eat something, and the more constantly she eats, the better. A slow hay feeder is a great idea, even if you can feed hay several times a day. I would also try soaked alfalfa cubes, because most horses seem to like them, they will get water into her, and the alfalfa has a buffering action on the stomach, like Tums.

We give the soaked cubes instead of grain when our others get grain. You can add the unsweetened beet pulp too, which is what we use here for all our minis (soaked). None of these things should hurt her and might help.

You might ask your vet about Sucralfate, which coats the lining of the digestive tract and can help ulcers. It can't be given at the same time as the Gastroguard and needs a prescription but it is fairly inexpensive and might help. My vet got the human meds for my mini.

Another product that I highly recommend is Natural Plan Stomach Soother, which is simply pureed papaya. Can't hurt, and I even know people who use the horse stuff! I have frequently seen a horse who wouldn't eat, go right to their feed after getting 5cc or so of this in a dosing syringe. Do a Google search and you can find deals on this.

You can also do a forum search on ulcers and find more advice.

About the laminitis -(Unfortunately I have had experience with this too) I would ask your vet about a product called "Remission" which is a magnesium and chromium supplement that is supposed to help prevent founder/laminitis in those prone to it. It won't treat an active case, but might help prevent future attacks. It is pretty cheap too.

Good luck with your girl. I know how terribly frustrating and scary this can be!

ETA: Gastroguard and Ulcerguard are the same, just have different instructions. Ulcerguard IS cheaper and can get without a prescription because it is packed/instructions for prevention (1/4 tube per dose) not treatment (full tube). But for a mini you don't use the dosages on the plunger anyway. I use 4 "ticks" on the plunger for a 150-200 pound mini.

 

[chandab]

I'll agree with what others have posted, and say ulcers have now been added to your issues. Get the Gastroguard to heal the ulcers, which could easily take over 30 days. Then, in the future anytime you need to use bute, be sure to use an ulcer med during the same time. [HAve your vet recommend one, I use U-Gard, but that may or may not be appropriate for your horse.]

Luckily, my Cushing's gelding doesn't have laminitic issues, yet, but he does have other non-Cushing's health problems (in addition to his Cushings problems), so for that is on a daily probiotic and ulcer meds (I use U-Gard pellets to help prevent ulcers) per the vet (these were prescibed pre-Cushings diagnosis). Plus now that he is also diagnosed Cushing's he gets flax, Vit E and salt added to his daily ration per the Cushing's Yahoo group recommendations, and his pergolide. He gets more supplements than I do.

 

[Hosscrazy]

I'm sorry to hear you're having these problems; I had a Cushings/IR mare who foundered - it's a tough, tough situation to be in. Please consider joining Eleanor Kellon, VMD's Cushings/IR group - I moderated this group for a long time, and it's a great group of people who are very knowledgeable and can provide invaluable advice and help.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/

Best wishes,

Liz N.

Edit to add: Pergolide can cause loss of appetite depending on the dosage amount. Check with your vet on the levels, and ask about splitting the dosage - 1/2 in the AM and 1/2 in the PM. I also highly recommend timothy pellets (Mountain Sunrise) which are low in NSC.

 

[Nikki B]

Thanks so much for all the quick replies....my mom is getting the GG this afternoon and we will be asking the vet about the sulcrafate too.

About the alfalfa pellets- I thought it was a no-no to let a horse with chronic laminitis anywhere near alfalfa?? Are the pellets different than the hay?

Thanks again, we are holding out hope we can get her back to good health. She has nibbled at the hay a little and eaten a little of the beet pulp but not her normal amount and doesn't really seem to be interested in food at all in general.

 

[Charlotte]

Please have your mare checked for hyperlipemia asap. blood test. As long as she has not been eating this is a very real possibility.

For ulcers this bad also give 2 tabs ranitidine (150 mg) 3 x day added to the sucralfate and Gastroguard or Ulcerguard. Ranitidine (Zantac) works faster but for only about 4/5 hours, but helps to get them eating.

Stop the bute if at all possible. Smallest possible doses of banamine if absolutely necessary. Wean off as quickly as possible.

For laminitis. Try Triple Crown Safe Starch Forage....the horse needs nothing else. It is chopped hay balanced with vitamins & minerals. Very low carb and consistent.

I'm not a vet. this is what has worked for us. Get the blood test for hyperlipemia ASAP.

Wishing the best for your mare.

 

[kaykay]

I second what Charlotte posted especially with the weight loss.

Also never let a foundered horse back on pasture even in winter.

Sending prayers for your horse!

Kay

 

[Nikki B]

Thanks we did ask about the hyperlipemia and her liver function so far is normal, thank goodness....

We did give her some tagamet earlier after reading the responses on here and doing some research, saw an immediate improvement.....small but definite improvement. We have the Ulcerguard, he didn't prescribe Gastroguard like he said but he did give us Ulcerguard and we are going to look into getting some of the other things y'all suggested. We really appreciate all the info/advice and I will keep you posted on how she is doing. Here is a picture of her when she was feeling better....

 

[LAZY J MINIS]

I'VE USED REMISSION ON MY FOUNDERED MARE, AND SHE IS STILL ON IT. IT HELPED WHEN SHE WENT DOWN AND HELPED NOT HAVING TO GIVE AS MUCH BUTE. FOR 2DAYS SHE GOT TWICE A DAY, FOR 2 DAYS ONCE A DAY,MADE SURE SHE HAD ALFALFA PELLETS AND WHOLE OATS. SHE NOW ONLY GETS OATS WITH REMISSION AND COATAL HAY. JUST HAD HER FEET DONE AND SHOWS NO SIGN OF FOUNDER. AND MY G.KIDS HAVE BEEN RIDING HER. GOOD LUCK.

 

[bevann]

Ask your vet about giving her aloe vera juice orally.I had a Mini who got ulcers after surgery&bute.It helped him and cured his ulcers.You can get it at Walmart or many pharamcies.get the plain kind&referigerate after opening.I used 6 cc 2 times daily-Mini was a yearling.This was suggested to me by a vet who is an equine nutritionist at a vet teaching university.Hope your mare improves.she sure is pretty.Keep us posted.PS I have used aloe myself on burns&it has wondeful healing properties.

 

[Hawks_Eye_Minis]

I second the aloe vera juice you can get a gallon of it for $8 at walmart

 

[albahurst]

I agree with bleeding ulcers. You are in a tough situation, for sure. If she were mine, I would not feed any alfalfa, cubes or otherwise, even though it helps with ulcers. (If she were not laminitic, then alfalfa would be a great choice, IMO). The laminitis most certainly could flair up. I would personally feed soft hay 6-8 times a day or in a slow feeder. I would give Ulcergard or GastroGard, as directed for weight and continue on this for at least 30 days. In addition, I would also feed Neigh Lox twice daily (2 TBSP each feeding). Adding the sucralfate is also in order, I think. Ask your vet about pain meds/anti-inflammatories to use. Banamine and bute will flair up the ulcers.

Good luck to your little mare.

Hugs

 

[Lil Timber Buck]

So sorry to hear about this. Please keep us posted on her recovery. She is gorgeous and I am sure she is a sweetie. Best of whishes for you and your little girl.

 

[horsenut50]

So sorry to hear about your girl. One question I have to ask though is that I thought I saw several times on this board that you are not supposed to give Miniatures Bute but no one on this thread has mentioned it. I'm confused.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I think if you give bute it must be done carefully cause if you over dose it it can be more harm then good. I've always avoided bute and used banamine instead but the coninuous use of NSAIDS will certaintly cause ulcers and it really sounds like thats something you have.

Alfalfa is good for horses with ulcers, its like a stomach smoother but I would only give very little like smaller than a handful of alfalfa/timothy pellets. It may not even be worth taking the chance on. I would also try and keep her off pasture as much as possible, give her free choice of good grass hay and a slow feeder would do wonders. I would also give her a good mineral block. If you have to feed her grain go for the low starch feeds such as Ultra Fiber, MOORGLO, or StaySTRONG by ADM. There are others out there but those are the ones I know of, but if you can avoid giving her any grain at all would be best.

 

[Hawks_Eye_Minis]

Just a side thought but have you gave her any probiotics?

 

[albahurst]

Just a side thought but have you gave her any probiotics?