To geld or Not to geld?

[Penny_Lane_Ponies]

So I have 2 appy colts, and can't decide if I want to geld one? Sorry about the horrible pictures, working at clipping just taking a while.

First "Hot Rod" 30" 2 YO He is a bit over weight in these pictures. What does everyone think about his over all quality? Love is coat pattern but I dont like his short stubby legs!



Second "Scotty" 32" 1YO This guy has much longer legs and is more refined but hes toes out in the back pretty bad. Could he possible grow out of this? Other then that i think he is much nicer then the first colt. Although I dont really like his coat pattern, and im not really sure if he is a blanket or a snow cap?



This is the appy mare I will be breeding one of them to in a year or so. She is a chestnut leopard 34"



Thank you for your input.

 

[fourluckyhorseshoes]

Hi--

Someone recently posted a very similar type topic and they were very upset by the honest answers given by members on the forum so if you have only a few replies that could be why. But also be prepared for honest answers.

My biggest thing is what is the purpose of the breeding? Are you trying to get a driving horse? Halter horse? Want to see a baby born or wanting to resell for profit?

I don't think a horse will grow out of cowhocks, they may improve slightly, but I wouldn't count on it. Longer legs are nicer for driving but having cow hocks puts extra stress on their joints. It may just be the way the horse is standing but #1 looks sickle hocked.

I would also wait a while to figure out whose personality/temperament you like best, whose movement is most desirable etc.

Personally I would geld both, but if I HAD to keep one a stallion I'd go with #1.

 

[Penny_Lane_Ponies]

Thank you for your honesty, trust me I wont get mad. I asked for an opinion, as i'm VERY new to this, I have no idea what I have so I need someone to tell me.

So are you saying on #2 I should cull him all together? This may sound stupid but i'm here to learn so i will ask. What is Sickle Hocked? If its going to effect his driving ability then I should just sell him now. Because I drive them that's what I do with them, I dont show much and I do long pleasure drives so i dont want them to breaking down.

I was also considering gelding both as I hate things about them both, but then I really dont have a stud? Wondering if I should find a stud and buy a breeding to him, its just everyone is so far away from me.

 

[Penny_Lane_Ponies]

Forgot to mention.... I really want a baby out of my appy mare she is my favorite and really want an offspring from her. But would hope it would be a driving mini like herself when it got older. That why i'm so worried about the legs on both my colts.

 

[Foxhaven]

Life's too short to breed horses with qualities that bother you. You probably have answered your own question. Worn out, sure, but it fits: "No leg, no horse".

Breed to the best you can find and afford.

 

[Penny_Lane_Ponies]

I will be gelding & culling #2, I just looked up Sickle Hocked, and I an shocked! I'm 99% sure he has it! So thank you so much! I would have never realized this on my own just thought he toed out badly! I will also have my vet take a look at him. As for #1 I will give him more time to mature, before deciding. Because once its gone there no putting it back so i want to be 100% positive before getting them snipped! Thank you again!!!

 

[fourluckyhorseshoes]

I know you want to breed your mare, just make sure you consider this---

- Breeding minis is very risky and you could lose your mare.

-Make sure you fully evaluate your mare's conformation. A stallion can't fix all of your mare's flaws ( generally speaking).

-Breeding can be really expensive and with a down market it would be so much cheaper to buy a trained one than try to make one.

Here's a link you should look at regarding conformation---

http://offtrackthoroughbredhelp.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Equine-Conformation-Chart.jpg

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Forgot to mention.... I really want a baby out of my appy mare she is my favorite and really want an offspring from her. But would hope it would be a driving mini like herself when it got older. That why i'm so worried about the legs on both my colts.

IMHO, for what it's worth, I would geld both colts and find a local stallion who has been shown and has points/championships in driving classes. One that can MOVE, has nice conformation, a good temperment. One you would be PROUD of, to point to and say "That's my baby's daddy! Isn't he AWESOME!!"

Don't breed to what you have, just because you can. Think. Plan. Study. Do your research. Start saving now for that stud fee.

Then breed, and you will have a far, FAR better change of getting that one-in-a-millon foal.

 

[stormy]

If you ask the question geld or not I don't think anyone is ever going to tell you not to geld.....there is not a single stallion out there that would not make a good gelding!

What you have to decide is IF you do not geld and you breed (I have several stallions I don't breed but do drive and enjoy) does he have all the things you would love to see in a foal (and I mean all...not just color or a pretty head or whatever but the whole picture) and are you improving your stock and the miniature horse breed overall?

 

[Minimor]

If I were to have to choose one to keep as a stallion it would be the first one.

The second one--never mind the cowhocks, he has a very poor hindquarter on him--very short hip, very low tail set and hind legs that are rather poorly set on. He may drive for you, but I would never breed with a stallion with his conformation.

You would love to have a foal from your mare but have you considered the risk to her? She is your favorite horse , do you really want to risk her with breeding and foaling, given that there is always the possibility of dystocia causing the loss of your mare? If thats a risk you wish to take I would suggest finding an outside stallion to breed her to. Honestly, though, it can be much easier and cheaper and safer to go out and buy a youngster that will grow up to be a driving horse for you. It is just as rewarding too. I have raised foals and while I love having the babies around, I have an equal amount of fun when I buy a weanling I can pick the horse I want and know exactly what Im getting, and I dont risk one of my mares to get it. It is a lot of fun to get a weanling and then grow him up, teaching him what I want/need him to know, and seeing what he becomes; it really is just as rewarding as growing my own with my own breeding stock.

 

[Marty]

I have a mare here I am so close to it isn't funny. I live and breath for her. There's no way I would risk breeding her in a million years because I couldn't handle the thought of loosing her by a situation I put her in.. Besides, she's pretty cruddy in the conformation department anyhow.Bloolines she has up the ying yang, but, conformation is iffy at best I just have to love her and accept her for the unruly pain in the arse she is. .Sorry, but I have to dis my own mare to be truthful to you.

As far as your boys, my friend says it best: Unless a stallion is pheonenal, he should be gelded.

And ask yourself if you want to risk breeding your mare because you love her or think she is so awesome you want her to be replicated?

I would geld both stallions, and not breed the mare either.

With so many super nice horses around going for cheap, you can easily kill two birds with one stone and buy what you really want in a horse, a ready made show colt for a lot less than the worries you will have breeding and perhaps a huge emergency vet bill.

 

[targetsmom]

I didn't read all the responses (sorry our mare just foaled and I am distracted) but in general, when someone asks if they should geld, the answer >99% of the time is "YES". The only exception I know of is our colt Max, who in his brief life and show career was consistently beating AMHA World Grand, Reserve Grand and plain World Champion horses and then people said "don't be hasty".

I also second not breeding your favorite mare. We bred one of our favorite mares last year and she is ready to foal any day/minute. We are basket cases worrying about all the things that can go wrong and knowing several favorite mares that were lost to foaling just this April! Trust me, it will be so much easier and cheaper in the long run to BUY what you want - size, color, age, movement, eye color, etc.

Our most favorite mare - the one in my avatar now -will never be bred, despite all the pleas from friends who want a foal from her. Nope, not worth it...

 

[Helicopter]

Yep, what everyone else has said. Geld them both. From their point of view they will have much happier lives and your little mare will be safe from any possible foaling woes.

Just the ever so humble opinion of someone with a paddock full of happy geldings (and frustrated mares).

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I would like to ask just how good is your "favourite mare"? What has she won, where? I can see she is in harness, do you show her in harness? If you want a colt to bring on and show in harness now is the time to buy it, for peanuts., registered and ready to go in the ring, often also gelded! So I really would not bother breeding, especially if this mare is special to you. I cannot judge her conformation from the picture posted but a mare gives 50% of the genes, so you really need to take that into account.

 

[Carolyn R]

I agree with so much that has been said. I would geld both, but if you really only want to geld one, I would start with the second stud. As far as your favorite mare, just look at REOs recent post. Someone with years of experience....my heart goes out to her. I know you may look at some of the price tags out there and say I just can't afford to purchase, but.....take into consideration, if you are going to breed, hopefully you are wanting to do it right, which includes having a vet pull bloodwork or do an ultra sound if they are experienced US minis in foal. If you are blessed with an easy pregnancy and foaling, you should still have the vet out for a healthy foal and mare check, including an IGg. This is a bare minimum that should be done, esp. Since your experience is limited in this field (sorry if I am reading into this, just what I gathered from your post). If you get a healthy foal on the ground, keep in mind, they can go down hill quickly if they become sick. Not to mention, I haven't even touched on complications like a mare aborting late term and the foal is breach, foal not getting out of the sack, the mare having complications.

A normal pregnancy can nickel and dime you, a complicated one can leave you broke and heartbroken. Taking the money you would spend and slowly putting it aside for a purchase over the next year or two can give you the same end product....a foal or new horse.

It is just a matter of spending 11 months on pins and needles not knowing what you may or may not end up with, or taking that money and buying exactly what you are looking for.

 

[BigDogs & LittleHorses]

Looks like you're getting some good information on the forum and glad that you're open minded. I'm also glad people have clarified that their default answer is always going to be for gelding (and why).

It is pretty much "gelding until proven stallion" on here.

I suggest that if you can, attend some local shows, meet competitors and their animals and visit their farms. See what else is out there for you to buy or use for breeding. Study conformation. It will equip you to make these big decisions with your animals.

 

[fourluckyhorseshoes]

This is a good article you may want to read:

http://www.tenltraining.com/Selection_an_Training_of_a_Driving_horse-Article!!!.pdf

 

[Tab]

If you are breeding 34" and less, smaller is preferable. That said, agree with foxhaven, breed your best. If you cannot afford to geld both, they can be stallions without being used for breeding. Know that even if you do breed your best the resulting foal may not sell. That is almost a guarantee in this market. The supply for minis is very high and the current demand is very low. Best wishes in your mini endeavors. They are a joy to own!