Teaching a horse patience while tied

[Marsha Cassada]

This came up on another post and rather than hijack that post, I thought we might discuss it as a separate topic.

One horse I had was a pawer, but he pawed everywhere, not just tied. He never pulled back while tied, he just pawed. I took the advice of folks on here whose judgement I admired and just paid no attention to him.

A horse I have now is a little impatient, but we are slowly working on. Twice, when I tied him too low and too loosely he got his head under the lead and nearly tore his head off in a panic. Both times I was standing right there and calmed and released him quickly. I intend to leave him tied while I am nearby to make sure he does not hurt himself. He is improving all the time.

Someone recommended that I tie him up and leave him for an hour or more. Even if he threw himself on the ground or otherwise contorted himself, to leave him tied so he could "learn patience". This seemed stupid and cruel to me, not to mention serious injury to his head, neck and body.

A horse that pulls back is another thing. I had one like that once and when he started to do that, I untied him and forced him to back up until he was glad to stop. After doing that a few times, I never had him pull back while tied again. He wiggled around, but did not pull and jerk while tied.

What "fixes" do some of you have for a horse that won't stand patiently while tied?

 

[paintponylvr]

The "patience poles" now espoused by NH trainers actually work VERY well. They are tied high up and they actually can't pull back easily and even the "hardened, habit formed" pullers would eventually quit BUT it took time and it did LOOK ugly. Yes, you still stay around and handy with a scissors/knife/bolt cutter to cut them loose if they should actually get into trouble - but most times they simply didn't with this arrangement.

Tying using a "hi-line" works similarly well. The "hi-line" needs to be high and needs to remain tight when a confirmed puller pulls, though. You don't want it to stretch OR break.

Tying them this high results in the horse pulling his own front quarters off the ground when he sits back to pull. They don't like that and it's worked every time for the ones we've used this on. If a confirmed or serious puller - takes many more than 1 time tied like this to make them quit and only 1 time of getting loose to go right back to sitting back every time they are tied up.

This is much easier to do with smaller equine than bigger horses, but I learned this with bigger horses (900 - 1300 #s - working ranch horses). A draft horse barn has to be built stout and a foal is often trained to tie LONG before it is a year old. They are often tied with chain - in the old days - it would not break! The whole point - teaching the horse he can - not - get - loose and the pulling is pointless and could be painful to him...

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Next is my opinion - I know that not everyone agrees:

I think that the "safety first" has been taken too far - from what I'm seeing at riding stables, lesson barns and youngsters just learning to ride/drive. To me - the using of a band or hay twine - so that it breaks if a horse pulls back - has created more "halter pullers" than accidents it's meant to have prevented.

The same with NH training "Tie Blocker Ring" - in which a 14' lead rope is meant to slide thru to allow a horse to pull back. Sorry - all of my girlfriend's Shetland ponies (including the 5 month old colt born this year) have learned they can pull right out of those unless she is standing right there and pulls that rope back up where she wants the pony standing. Kinda defeats the purpose since she can't go into her tack shed and get equipment... And that was one expensive piece of equipment she bought. She has at least 4 that I know of at $26+ each plus shipping. Nice idea - doesn't work quite right - and the designer is rolling in dough ($$) - NOT MINE! However, she still loves her "Blocker"s, so... She doesn't like the way that I tie mine hard and fast - but it took 5 people to catch one of her ponies not too long ago at a draft horse event when she pulled right out of that "Blocker" (yes, she's got two attached to the outside of her trailer) - who is to say which is right?

I WANT MY PONIES TO STAY WHERE I "PARK" THEM.

Recently - I got a little sick watching a TV program produced locally in our state. Showed 2 SMALL 4-H girls loading a BIG horse into a slant load trailer and tying him up. Except that he wasn't "tied", they used a 14' training lead and then just dropped it on the floor of the trailer at his head. EWWWWW. I love my ponies and I know that manure happens. I deal with it. But why go out of your way to get your lead ropes filthy? I don't want to touch/handle a wet, squishy, "green" lead rope and I know that NO-ONE that comes up to pet my ponies at an event does either (usually not horse people)! THEN, since they were right by the emergency door, they DUCKED right under the horse's neck/chest (I was taught never to do that with a TIED UP HORSE - bad consequences to the person) and out the door. My ponies are pretty well trained. But most would have followed me right out and that non-tie would have kept right on going as they jumped out (mine DO load in/out thru the emergency doors). Then - head up, eyes and nostrils wide as they realize they aren't in the barn or their paddock or even their "own" pasture and I'd spend a good while playing the "WHEE, I"M FREE" game. And then - a lot of 4-Hers have less than stellar trained horses and often have young horses. That loose rope that can then wind around the legs of a horse while in that trailer - hmmm - a serious wreck waiting to happen...

Do 4Hers and Pony Cluber's and other "newbie's" today even know HOW to properly tie up a horse?? I see most tied too low (neck pull down injuries are more likely to happen when horse tied lower than his withers), with an incorrect "knot" (a real square knot usually, instead of one of several slip ones that can be pulled loose in an emergency) and to a HORIZONTAL BOARD that can/will come loose instead of tied to the actual post as they should be...

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I've been surprised that no-one asked ?s regarding the belly rope that i used on this years foal. Maybe because my pics of that are posted only in the Mare Stare forum. But that usually generates a lot of questions and sometimes hostility...

I tie my babies with a belly rope w/ a large ring (so that it releases quickly). That belly rope is run between their legs and thru the halter ring (if LARGE ENOUGH for the lead rope to slide easily). If the halter ring (most mini/foal halters aren't) isn't large enough, I snap a larger ring to slide the tie rope through. Then the foal is TIED with the rope HIGHER THAN his withers. He is tied so that he has some allowance to move back/forth/around and the small foals are tied to or next to their dam so that they can still nurse (but that allows enough rope to get a leg over, be prepared). If he pulls back (and all of mine have), he is not going to hurt his head as most if not all of the pressure is put on his barrel. As soon as he STEPS UP/FORWARD or stands back up from pulling - the rope will loosen around his barrel - releasing the pressure. He learns that the pressure is released when he stands quietly "just-so" and that it tightens around him when he pulls back, sits down or throws himself down.

When I lead a young foal, I often use a "figure-8" around his chest and rump - to hold & direct him and only apply pressure to his head in short, pretty light amounts. I don't want a lot of pressure on a small foals' head. Both the "figure-8" and the belly/girth rope can be used if a foal rears and/or falls down to help with preventing that precious head from hitting the ground. Trust me, dealing with a head injury on a horse is not fun and sometimes no amount of treatment fixes it...

I've experienced both.

At my last place, we had a 1/2 shetland become a bit of a halter puller. Rotten little guy that wasn't so little! So, we tried two different ways of tying him. First was the belly rope - and then we didn't tie him up but ran the lead rope thru a large hole in the barn wall (up high - above his head). Then end of the rope was attached to a heavy weight with a horseman's slip knot (we could have pulled it loose). When he stood where we wanted, there was slack in the belly area of the lead rope. But when he stepped back, first the line tightened around his girth, then he started lifting the weight off of the ground (we used several cinder blocks tied together). That didn't take long - he decided he preferred to stand closer to the wall. BUT I wanted him to learn that he shouldn't even step back - so when he got a little older, we hooked the lead rope directly to his halter - the nylon one didn't bother him, so we used one of the NH hard rope ones - and he quickly learned that ANY TIME he was tied he should stand quietly and right where he'd been positioned at the beginning. He didn't like lifting the weight with the hard, narrow halter on his sensitive little head!!

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Sorry, this one got a bit long!!

 

[paintponylvr]

And a lot of equipment meant to hold a horse, today, will BREAK. I truly don't understand that!!

 

[Minimor]

I have never had many that were halter pullers. The worst two I've had were ones that worn a "catch rope" before I got them. I believe that because they got used to being jerked in the nose every time they stepped on the dragging rope that they because immune to the effect of the halter. As a result they were inclined to pull when tied. They got over it in time--I did not do anything different with them, I just tied them as usual and went about my business with them. I was always right there to make sure they did not get into trouble.

I have one now that is absolutely terrified when tied up. I mean terrified. I won't go into his reasons--but believe me, he has reasons. I have figured out what makes him this way. So how do I fix it? Simple. I do not tie him. He does so much better when he is not tied, and so I just hold the rope. His terror when tied makes him dangerous to me, so holding the rope whenever I want to do anything with him is far preferable. Someday I am sure I will be able to tie him and work around him, but that day is far in the future. I feel very bad for him, but it is what it is and I just have to be patient.

 

[lucky seven]

I admit that I don't know how to properly tie a horse. Once I took a book out of the library with photos and tried to practice but no matter how often I practiced, everything was too loose. Seven unties himself then walks up to me with lead trailing. I do have cross ties that he is in when I groom him. He's pretty good about it, if he moves it's just side to side. Not one of our major issues.

 

[always learning]

Paint pony brought up a point I fully agree with about tying. Over the years,(and there have been a lot of them), I've always tied my animals to stay tied, and most are tied with chain and snap. My Arab stud would chew lead-ropes, but respected chain. Another thing I did with all of mine, the younger the better, was train them to a tie-out. It was time consuming, but well worth the effort. They learn not to panic if a rope gets between the hind legs, and to be patient if they can't get untangled by themselves. They learn help will come eventually. My best pony mare was so rope-smart that she foaled while tied with a 6-ft lead. I had moved her out of her pen while we put in hay above(bales coming off elevator). Meg always knew just how much rope slack she had, and how to use it. When we finished 1/2 hour later, she had gone from no sign of labor(she was always sneaky about foaling), to foal almost dry and nursing on the side between her and wall. One of her foals, as a yearling, didn't come up with the rest one morning, when we found him he was standing with a hind leg through the fence (back then it was barb-wire)and against his inner thigh. He had sense enough to wait for help, and only had a tiny hole where the barb touched, he didn't panic and make it worse. Some will say I'm taking big chances with tie-out, but over the years all I've had were animals that could be trusted on a rope (or chain). They learn to be aware of when the tie is close to a foot and move accordingly. (I don't use tie-out at night or when I'm not home).

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

Not had the issue cause my breeder is one to tie up and leave, so they all already do it. I will be rereading this post when i have a foal to train though!

One thing i have at the moment though is my stallion will rear in the horse box if the doors down. I have to close the box so he can't see out, but i do that anyway. He doesn't do it if not at a show and doesn't do it tied up and has never done it in transit so im not too worried.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

I'm with paintpony.

I had a seriously great Arab. His only flaw is that if he was tied with a breakaway halter, he would snap the crown. Not in a panicky way either, you could see him laughing. He was a jerk about it.

Once a horse learns they CAN break things they will. I always tie and teach to tie now on a nylon halter and sturdy lead, and just keep a knife in my pocket.

To teach them patience, they need to stand for HOURS a day, not just a little bit of time. I've used grazing muzzles on jerks that needed to play with everything in their mouths.

For the pawing, I got frustrated one day and pegged my fully right in the knee mid paw with a heavy wood block, she had no idea it was me and had no reason to expect it ( if nothing else I can convince a critter it wasn't me, God smited them for their wrong doing!), so she just stood there, wide eyed, thinking hard. Her pawing is down by at least 75% after that.

I have a mini stud that when he gets itchy, he's GOING to scratch it by rolling: on concrete, in mud, when TIED UP to a short chain! The little jerk literally was rolling on his back itching when I came back from the tack room once, while he was tied to a short chain above his head. The lead was suspending his head! I just stood their quietly so as not to spook him. He hopped up and shook like nothing had happened. Jerk.

However, he can do this because he knows what a chain and a tie ring are.

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

And a lot of equipment meant to hold a horse, today, will BREAK. I truly don't understand that!!

It's down to the health and safety crew. They think all horses should be tied with pieces of string and breakable head collars. I've never used string (a miniature isn't gonna break that anyway!) and same with head collars. End of the day a break away horse with a rope dangling loose is more dangerous than one taking a tizzy tied to a wall and teaching itself to relax cause it can't get away. Far too many fluffers in the horse world these days. Us old school people get a right bashing.
One recent example - a mare tied to a gate got spooked by a loose dog going at it, puts hood through gate and gets stuck. Everyone is going mad saying why is she tied to a gate she should not be tied up and there should be a bit of string so she could get away. I reckon about three people (me included) said look at the gate it is the worst type for a horse with sharp V angles and the mare put her good through it she didn't TRY to get away!

There no common sense anymore.

 

[always learning]

Furstplace--had a mini donkey that rolled in his tie stall, always seemed to know just how much slack he had.

Meg, every time she was moved to new grass, would walk to the anchor point, then go out and walk a circle around it, only when she had her chain measured would she go to eating. If she perceived a threat, she'd back up to the anchor point, She tricked more than one stray dog into getting close enough for her to teach it a lesson.

Never used a break-a-way on livestock. If I tie it I expect it to stay put. Have had to track down a few halters over the years, had one horse that would "help" others out of their halters. Used a break-a-way collar on a kitten, he kept losing it, caught him deliberately snagging it and pulling so it would come apart. Little smarty did learn to walk on a leash.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Had my horses to the chiropractor this morning and asked about some of the tying suggestions here.

She said a tie post was useful, keeping the tie above the horse's head. Be ready to get them out of a fix, then retie to continue the training.

She said breakaway halters might not be a good idea; if the horse learns he can break them he will continue to do so.

We discussed a few other training ideas, not related to patience while tied.

 

[Jean_B]

Years ago I had a barrel racing horse that had learned that he could break just about anything because his previous owners didn't use good ropes...he snapped everything. Since that was not an option in my opinion, I would tie him with a HEAVY rope around his neck that could not pull tight, ran the line through his halter, and tied him to a steel post high up. The first few times he would test it every couple of minutes, and would pull back so hard he was sitting. He eventually got over it, but I always erred on the side of caution and made sure I carried a heavy rope along on our trail rides....didn't want to tie him to a tree and him break away, leaving me stranded miles from home.

Fast forward many years....Now if I take in a mare for breeding....I will not accept any mares that do not know how to stand tied.