Stupid Old AMHR Breeder

[2minis4us]

I think you should throw in the towel, seems like you have not been happy for a long time. JMO. AMHR... it is what it is. Just because you don't agree with the hardship, it makes some people really happy to be able to register for less $$. Lots of us don't have as much money as we used to.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

If you were to stay in AMHR and want to fight for the "straight" miniature then fight. This forum is only good for so much. Submit proposals to help protect them. Attend Conventions. Unless if you feel you have put up a good fight and can't do anymore then leave. Too me I also agree it seems like you have been unhappy with AMHR for a long time, but with that being said both registries have problems. But AMHR as you know is going towards the shetland route and IMO a trend that won't go away anytime soon. I still think the under division will remain strong, as numbers have shown. But I think the B size AMHR only breeder is going to have a hard time competing against a breeder who raises AMHR/ASPC ponies.

 

[RayVik]

Lavern

I feel your frustration and if nationals has a HUGE increase and the market skyrockets in 2013 because of the increase in hard-shipped AMHR horses then we will have to eat our words and forever face the reducible of believing the miniature horse could be something more then a commodity. Regardless I know I will seek my quality in flesh ind blood not in paper and ink.

Edit to add: It would be a fitting and ironic twist for this thread to end on " Black Friday "

 

[Riverrose28]

QUESTION for those more knowledgable....would it make the AMHR only horse more marketable to also have the ASPC attached to the registration, then if yes, can the registry reverse the hardship to AMHR only breeders so they can hardship into ASPC for a reduced price. Or is that impossable?

Reason I ask is this, I'm having a difficult time marketing my AMHR only "B" size horses as to show at the National level they need that ASPC and don't want to add any more horses, no matter what they are registered in.

 

[Lewella]

ASPC is a closed pedigree breed, you cannot hardship into ASPC.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

ASPC is a closed breeding registry. It no longer accepts registration of outside horses. AMHR is a semi-closed height registry. It's closed too all outside registration except for certain registries like AMHA, ASPC, and Fabella registration.

I'm in the same boat. I'm selling a B size AMHR only mare and had someone that was greatly interested in her but she didn't realize that she was only AMHR and she thought she was double. So even tho she was ready to buy but because she is only AMHR and even tho she is half Shetland and still would not buy her because of no ASPC papers. I think the BOD can think of a way to have a incentive for having these AMHR only horses. Everyone says we cannot have a new division, like Foundation. Say 4 generations back of no Shetland papered horses in the bloodlines. Has to be a way.

The easiest solution by far is for AMHR to completely close to outside registration, no hardships, start having Breeding Stock papers to those who do go over, and start implementing DNA. Start writing up a better Standard of Perfection for the AMHR miniature and I guarantee the closest we will get is the same standard of a Classic. And then maybe we can get past the stigma of just being a height registry.

 

[chandab]

The easiest solution by far is for AMHR to completely close to outside registration, no hardships, start having Breeding Stock papers to those who do go over, and start implementing DNA. Start writing up a better Standard of Perfection for the AMHR miniature and I guarantee the closest we will get is the same standard of a Classic. And then maybe we can get past the stigma of just being a height registry.

I think we should close the registry, make a place for oversize (no showing, but not losing papers either), and I could get on board with DNA as long as they do it slowly so as to not overwhelm current owners/breeders. Let's get noticed as a "real" breed.

 

[dreaminmini]

Isn't it interesting that since the pony people all say minis are really Shetlands, we keep getting reminded of that every time this argument comes up, why can't we get our ASPC papers for them? The minis are Shetlands, dontcha know, just a minor technicality of what 4 letters are in front of their name. So ASPC let's make 'em all double registered...unless...well...dare I say it...you are just trying to kill off the miniature horse altogether?? Because that is what is happening. They want the AMHR money, nothing more, nothing less. The AMHR becomes really just the miniature Shetland division. ASPC egos maybe a little hurt over where the popularity lies. You cannot even speak up for the straight AMHR horse, they just call sour grapes, we get told they are just Shetlands anyway, they say minis are ill-conformed, us AMHR only people are not allowed to have a thought unless it is how superior the Shetland pony is to the Miniature Horse. Great brainwashing almost cultish in it's behavior. I give them credit, create an animal that is very popular, let it grow, makes lots of money for them, then take it back over, God forbid it should actually become it's own entity. Let's just negate all the breeders hard work to bring about the wonderful little horses that we have today. They ARE DIFFERENT from their pony counterparts. Not sure what part of "if I wanted to buy a Shetland I would just go buy a Shetland" the ASPC doesn't understand?? But you get those Shetland judges to judge at the mini shows they place the double registereds first at every opportunity not taking true conformation regardless of type except on the rarest of occasions, making all the sheep members want double registered ponies so they can win too thereby increasing the value of the ASPC pony. The double registered isn't a trend it is a fact. It's called having your cake and eating it too. Actually, IMO the registry is cutting it's own throat, the minis are their money maker and they are making it obsolete. What happens when people wake up and realize minis aren't ponies and ponies aren't minis? When those wonderful little horses with their wonderful calm temperaments are all gone and the popularity of the Shetland wanes, what animal are you going to invent next to save yourselves in 20 years??? LOL Because ponies do not have the same popularity. Not exactly very bright, people...LOL Biting the hand that feeds you.

 

[Barnmother]

Just wanted to echo the sentiments of a couple of people who have posted. And, add my 2cents worth!Q

A little background: I got into miniatures in 2007 after my husband had a major heart attack and we decided that we really preferred the little guys over their full size counterparts and breeding miniatures was on my bucket list. I had previouly bred, raised, trained and shown Arabians and Saddlebreds when I lived in Washington. I had also owned a couple of miniatures.

I decided that I wanted quality and was not concerned about size. I ended up with a couple of double registered (AMHA and AMHR) horses and a couple of AMHR only horses (I now only have one AMHA the other outgrew the registry). I joined both registries and transfered papers. Skipped a few years I the joined the registry when one of the horses needed to go from Temporary to Permanent. So my membership was not consistent.

Last year we were ready to head out to some shows (we did only two last year) so I joined again in 2012. I will be joining again in 2013 to show my little group again. I have also bred a couple of mares. My two smallest horses also produced my second largest, she is an AMHR Over at as a two year old.

I am going with AMHR overs and I plan to stick with doing that. I like the overs, while I still love my unders the overs are best for me, I am not looking for ASPC I like my mini's. I have two unders at this point and four overs.

I will continue to join the registry as needed to show or register/transfer papers, it might not be every year. It is a lot of money to spend when you aren't actively needing the registry to work for you. Heck I didn't have enough paperwork to do last year to even use my $20 credit!

That said I really believe the economy has had a big effect on what folks are doing. You say that transfers are down, I bet sales are down as well, no need to transfer if you haven't purchased something. New registrations down, well I would bet that folks are breeding as many as they were in the past due to limited resources to purchase additional feed, bedding etc. to keep more mouths. I know that we have been very selective here.

My veterinarian told me the last time he was out, he thought I really had something going here. Lots of horsey folks, like myself, are getting older. They don't want to give up their equine hobbies however they arent as confident as they were around the big horses, they can't always ride anymore and miniatures like mine were going to start coming into their own to fill the niche. They are less expensive to feed, require less space to maintain and even if you can't climb into a saddle anymore you can get one broke to drive an ez entry cart and still enjoy an outing.

I am sticking with enjoying, breeding and showing my AMHR kiddos. Everything has a cycle and a time. Let's get the economy back so people have expendible income again before we throw in the towel. A lot of boarding stables ended up owning horses (large and small) on unpaid board bills in the last couple of years. Horses no matter the size are a luxury that some just can't afford right now.

 

[disneyhorse]

How, exactly, does a judge know who all the minis in the show ring are registered also with ASPC?

 

[dreaminmini]

Ummm...by look for the most part (if I can pick em out a judge sure can), handlers/trainers - the judges can recognize them, the lovely internet and everyones farm pages,

You can't tell me that in most cases you can't tell the difference between a pony and a mini? You look for the badly conformed, short necked and heavy body animals and they are the minis right? The beautiful ones with the long swan-like beautiful necks, the wonderful movement and the no substance are the Shetlands. LOL

 

[disneyhorse]

Ummm...by look for the most part (if I can pick em out a judge sure can), handlers/trainers - the judges can recognize them, the lovely internet and everyones farm pages,

You can't tell me that in most cases you can't tell the difference between a pony and a mini? You look for the badly conformed, short necked and heavy body animals and they are the minis right? The beautiful ones with the long swan-like beautiful necks, the wonderful movement and the no substance are the Shetlands. LOL

No, I don't think that you can always tell the AMHR only from those who have ASPC papers. For instance, the McCarthy Lakeside Stables has both AMHR only as well as double registered and I think they are equally successful with both. They seem to breed for quality regardless of papers. Same with the Michigan horses, Buckeye WCF, and others. They do have some ASPC in their herd but not exclusively so.

I don't think that papers or ASPC breeding equal quality, but no one should deny that many small ASPC individuals bring a lot to the AMHR gene pool.

 

[Riverrose28]

I have a solution to this whole problem and to give an incentive to the AMHR only breeder, problem is it won't fly because of money. Let the ASPC/AMHR horses show at pony Congress, will increase there entries. Let the only AMHR horses show at Nationals, after all it is the AMHR Nationals, no ponies. How's that! Problem is the pony people will have a fit, cause they want to win at both events, and Nationals will lose money. It is an incentive for the AMHR only breeder.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I will tell you that won't even fly with anybody. Many breeders would argue saying why bother hardshipping into AMHR period for their ponies.

The closest you can try with what you are saying is to take the current rule a step further. A AMHR/ASPC pony cannot cross enter at the same show. Write in a proposal and make that include the National shows, you cannot show in both, you must pick one or the other. But many will still show at Nationals and more entries will be lost at Congress. But I can still see this not be passed by many people and even myself would have a hard time voting for this. I'm just glad that the cross entering rule this year was not passed.

 

[Lewella]

Riverrose28 if it has AMHR papers, it is an American Miniature Horse registered with the American Miniature Horse Registry. There are AMHR/AMHA, AMHR/PtHA, AMHR/Harnessbred, AMHR/Falabella, AMHR/WCMHR, etc. all showing at AMHR Nationals as well as ASPC/AMHR. If you eliminate the ASPC/AMHR you have to eliminate all of them too and when you do that you won't have a Nationals left.

 

[Riverrose28]

I so appreciate the insight and education, I personally have purchased several AMHA only horses only to hardship them into AMHR as I knew they would go over, so they lose their AMHA papers and are now only registered AMHR. These horses have won in the show ring, both in AMHA and AMHR even to the point of Champion of Champions in halter and ammy. Seriously they are only now AMHR registered. What is their future? ONe was 10th at Nationals in Model, but did place in performance, but not well at all against the ASPC/AMHR horses in halter. I so can understand were REnee is coming from breeding AMHR only horses that are 35 to 38"s. Do they sereiously have a future in this registry? Or are as someone else brought up, only money makers?

 

[Riverrose28]

Please disregard my previous post, after having a discussion wiht someone, I got it now!

 

[Silver City Heritage Farmstead]

I can't wait to get into town with the laptop so I can post a decent reply to this topic! I'm making notes as I'm reading through thread, already have one steno page full! LOL

I will say though, THANK YOU. Thank you to experienced breeders for sharing your desires, dreams and insights. Thank you to those with differing opinions, who make an honest effort to state those opinions in a non-confrontational manner. Thank you to the mods who gently guide us back to the fact that we ALL love miniatures and we're each entitled to our opinion as to what that is and remind us to state those opinions respectfully. Lastly, thank you (in advance) for allowing newcomers to learn from you and for allowing us (me specifically) to post our observations and thoughts as well. Doing so helps me to refine my goals as a partipant in the Wonderful World of the Miniature Horse....in ALL of it's manifestations....Julie

ETA: LaVern, I sent you a pm.

 

[Belinda]

Hi



I have stayed off this topic, but just wanted to share a little insight to how this reduced fee came into play !!!



We had many request from YOUR buyers from other countries to reduce the fee for them to come into our Registry ! As when most of them bought their Miniature Horses they were only AMHA registered ! As AMHR /ASPC had not even had a International Committee or Marketing program in place until about 4 years ago, When I insisted that we needed to explore that area ...



So after great thought and discussion the Board said , well it would not be fair to our old and faithful members to reduce fees for New folks and not our regular members .. And we really wanted to give those who were buying or had bought Mini's from other countries a chance to be part of our Registry ..





And by doing that we had to open it up to the reduced hardshipping fee for everyone , Not just Mini's , Not just other countries , BUT FOR EVERYONE ! And Like I said to some before , the number of Mini's hardshiped in from AMHA is double the number of Shetlands !! Actually I am not sure the number of shetlands is that much more than what we were getting with the higher fees !!!



Your board did not do this to lower the value of your Miniatures , but to help with those that wanted to bring their Miniatures into this Registry and let it continue to grow !!

:yes

 

[LaVern]

Thanks Belinda for your take on how it went down. I must be missing something here. Why would anyone one come to me to buy an only amhr horse when they can slap papers on their own cheap?

And I suppose it was very nice of the board to give all those New People and Over Seas People and Shetland People and AMHA people and Falabella People people a break and make our registry bigger.