Someone please help, I'm at my wits end!

[LaVern]

Hi, My guess would be imbalance of hormones. I have had older open mares turn vicious and very stud like. Good old girls that had never given me any trouble try to beat up the stallions and take me on.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

How old is this mare??

How old was she when you first saddle trained her??

How long did you work with her for?

How long has she been left and in what situation...i, was she stalled, loose, just in a field, does she have any company??

I agree this is a pain issue, but it may also be mental, Bonnie could find out for you.

http://www.bfogg.com/header.gif

Have a chat with her and see what she comes up with.

Good luck with this, I do not think it is straightforward, but I don't think you should blame anyone, not yourself and not the mare.

 

[mandi]

Thank you all for your thoughts about what was going on with her. I am going to keep working with her for now and try to get her a ride to the vet. ( our trailer is broke and no vets come out this far) I am trying to get an equine dentist out her to do her teeth and see if that might help her. I'm going to check her teeth tonight and see if there is any sharp edges or TMD going on.

That was interesting what clinton anderson said, I will keep that in mind when I work with her.

I do agree with you guys in saying that she is in pain or something is going on. That was the first thing that came to my mind when I began to work with her again.

 

[mandi]

She will be 10 this year in may so she was 8 when I first trained her. I worked with her twice a day for 20 to 30 minute sessions. She knew nothing other than how to be lead. I would work on ground work in one session and lunging, or desensitation in the other session. She does have another horse with her and has a stall inside the barn where we can open the door to let her come in and out of the field. She has been left for about 10 months with periodic grooming, trimming of feet, and I would work with her off and on here and there. THe last time I can remember taking her out was in august and that was to ride. She rode with a halter on and was a perfect angel. So lets say about 6 months ago she has been left alone for the most part.

 

[MiLo Minis]

I doubt very much there is anything physically wrong with this mare. Think about it for a minute. You spend 8 years of your life doing what you want, when you want, with no demands on you at all. Someone takes you and puts you to work. Even though you don't mind the work, it is work. It fizzles down to occasional work that is a bit on the painful side because you really aren't in condition for it. Then they send you off to the Bahamas for 6 months where you laze about doing what you want, when you want, just like back in the old days. After your 6 month vacation they tell you its time to go back to work. Do you get all excited and happy about that? No, you are grumpy and stressed. You remember the end of it when you were asked to do things you really weren't in condition for. You don't want to go back to that. You snap at the person and say NO I don't want to. Your mare is snapping at you. After so much time alone you need to look at this as she needs retraining. It is always more difficult to retrain than to train as there are now issues involved that were not involved before, such as remembering what they didn't like.

 

[wildoak]

I agree, I'd first get her evaluated for pain/discomfort. Dentist, chiropractor, etc. If all checks out and her behavior persists, you might look for a trainer or other experienced hand in your area who could give you some insight. Sometimes it just helps to have another opinion - someone might see something you are missing or taking for granted about the mare. Good luck with her - sounds like she is worth keeping.

Jan

 

[horsefeather]

Please call Bonnie!! She has helped me out many times with my horses and dogs. Don't know if you believe in animal communicators or not, but for your mare's sake, CALL Bonnie!! She is a member of this board.

Pam

 

[Versatility Farm & Training]

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents...

The first thing that comes to my mind is pain, which has been mentioned many times, then there's the lazy/spoiled mentality, but the thing I haven't seen on here yet is... is it possible she could be pregnant? We had a mini I rode when I was little. Me, my brother, and my sister rode her all the time. She would ride with or with our a saddle, with or without a bridle. Very easy, do what ever you asked of her. SHe was bought to be a brood mare, but found to have scaring from a foaling wiht a previous owner, so she became the horse us kids played with and showed. She got turned out with stallions as a companion from time to time. ONe summer me and my sister got her out to ride her, and she was very mean and nasty, didn't want us on her and would do what ever she could to prevent us from getting on, or to get us off. Being kids at the time (and this was 16 years ago) we chalkedit up to a bad mood, but her "bad mood" continued for a month or 2.... until my dad went out to feed one day and found a filly running by the mare's side! After foaling she was back to her kid friendly self.

Just a thought as it sounds similar to your situation, except I don't know if you even own a stallion.

 

[mandi]

UPDATE: Alright, I have been playing the my mare almost everyday for the past few weeks, and this is what I have found. She does GREAT if you groom her untied. If I just hold the lead rope she will stand perfectly still with her head up the entire time I work with her, and will not try to bite, kick, or rear. I can pick up all feet now by just touching the inside of her legs by her knee. She is no longer afraid of a whip and will lunge on command walk, trot, canter, and whoa. Also, this is the first time that after I lunge her she will willingly come up to me and she doesnt seem afraid. She is doing really REALLY good. she is doing good with moving away from pressure and backing up on command. I decided to just start with the basics on the ground and work my way up again to getting a saddle on her. I dont want to move to fast and I am enjoying getting her to be self confident and NICE again. Her personality has changed night and day. I do believe that she is going to be one of those horses that will always need to be worked a few times a week. We did take her to the vet and he said that she was physically fine, other than she could stand to lose a few pounds and that her teeth need to be done by an equine dentist which is supose to come out next month. He lives far away and only comes our way every other month or so. Well I just wanted to thank you all for your wonderful advice and helping me decide to stick to her. I'll let you know how everything turns out.

 

[wildoak]

Glad to hear things are improving with your mare! If she does continue to have issues, you might consider a chiropractor or osteopath in spite of the clean vet check. Sometimes they find things that are missed on a standard vet exam. Sounds like she is at least relaxing with you again, and that's always a good start with a horse.

Jan

 

[REO]

I'm so glad to hear she's doing great now! Good job!

 

[mandi]

I will keep the ciro in mind. I'm hoping that after her teeth are done she will start to feel a lot better. I know that she is hurting in her mouth because some of those teeth are pretty sharp and the vet told us that he recommends a specialist do them since one she is a mini and two they are as bad as they are. So, I think some of her attitude is because of this.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Your idea that she just needs to be worked regularly makes sense to me. I had a gelding that was dominant, but he was passive about it so it took me awhile to figure him out. Once I learned how to be herd boss toward him, he was good as gold. But if he was left alone too long, he had to be bossed all over again. He also had chiropractic and dental issues, but I do not think that was the cause of his behavior. He just needed to be reminded of his job. It was a good lesson for me.

I'm glad you got your girl figured out. You are a smart horsewoman.

 

[MiLo Minis]

Good for you helping work her through this! I had a feeling that was all there was to it. There are a good many horses out there that need to be worked regularly to keep them tractable. I get people all the time with the same problem - they've left their well trained sweet horse sitting for a few months and now they can't handle them. Once she has her teeth fixed up you can get back to having the kids ride and perhaps drive her.

 

[mandi]

I would LOVE to drive her. She was given to us for free and when we went to pick her up the lady gave us a mini cart to go with her. I just havent figured out what style of harness to get her or where to get it from. I am having problems figuring out what will fit her correctly. Are there different sizes of mini harnesses. She is considered a class A at 33.50 inches but she doesnt fit into the smaller mini halters. I am wondering if she might be a little dwarfy in that regard. When I look at her I dont really see dwarf, but i'm not a mini expert and dont know a lot about them so it might scream dwarf to someone else. Her head is the only thing that makes me wonder due to getting a halter to fit. All of the mini show halters I have gotten for her didnt fit and I had to make them bigger. Granted they were a size small, I'm not sure if that is normal or not. I will have to try to take a picture of her and see what everyone thinks.

 

[bfogg]

I am going to disagree and say this mare is in ALOT of pain.

She hurts from the top of the poll to the tail and in all 4 legs.

Bonnie

 

[MiLo Minis]

It is not unusual for a Mini to have a slightly too large for their body head. They need to have the same amount of brain capacity as any horse as they have all the same functions to handle. It is difficult to shrink the brain case down to fit that tiny body and still fit the necessary brain in there. They also have the same size teeth as a much larger equine and need someplace to put them. This may even be the cause of her dental trouble - not quite enough jaw for her teeth. Doesn't necessarily make her a dwarf and until we have a test for dwarfism you can't always look at a Mini and make that decision. Most full grown Minis take a large size Mini halter and she would likely take a normal Mini bridle size as well. Ozark Mountain makes a nice harness for the money and I highly recommend them. You can take measurements from the corner of her mouth, over the poll and to the other corner and that will tell you what size bridle she will need.

Bonnie, Mandi did say that she had a Veterinarian out to look at her and he gave her a clean bill of health. Surely he would have noticed something if she was in THAT much pain?

 

[bfogg]

Okay! She must not be then.

Bonnie

 

[Jean_B]

I do not trust a veterinarian to ADEQUATELY diagnose pain - especially in minis - when it is related to either their teeth or chiropractics....unless they have undergone the extensive training not normally offered as a part of vet school.

My first reaction....and I still stand by this.....she is in serious pain in her mouth and possibly her back, poll etc. The first clue - she stands quietly when no halter or tied. When a horse has nasty hooks WAY back in their mouth (and vets often miss those that are on the far back teeth), even putting a halter on the horse's head can cause extreme pain as those hooks slice the inside of the mouth to ribbons because of the pressure of the halter.

I would have her checked out by a CERTIFIED equine dentist and also a chiropractor.

 

[funnybunny]

Big horses often have major behavior problems when they are dealing with an ulcer. I've seen a horse buck off a saddle and act crazy. It turned out he had an ulcer. I've seen a well trained dressage horse all of a sudden go nuts because of an ulcer. I guess they hurt so bad, they don't know what to do with themselves.

Could be several things, but if your vet checks your horse, ask if it could be an ulcer.