Refunding money on payments,

[Frankie]

Would like to know your thoughts.

Sold a horse on payments, horse is still here.

Deposit was paid, $250

First three months payments were made, total $450.

What I believe to be a legitimate reason, having to move, they are not going to get the horse.

In the contract, it says, non refundable deposit. It will not be refunded.

There is no mention of the monthly payments and what is to be done with them if the sale does not go through.

It does say the horse has to stay here until paid in full and there will be no boarding fee.

Would like your thoughts on this, on what to return, and why.

They have asked to have the $450 returned.

I know, it should of been in the contract. But I tell you, the way things are your contract needs to be 100 pages long to cover everything, and then it still doesn't!

Live and learn, yet again!

Thanks for your suggestions, would like to get this taken care of and out of the way.

 

[mountain_waif]

....

 

[Jill]

I'm not sure what I'd do in this case. I might feel sorry for them and let them have some or all of the $450 back. However, I feel this is the worst time of year to try and sell a horse and you probably could have sold the horse much easier 3 mos ago when you took it off the market for them. I would bet as things are now, you will likely need to house and feed the horse on through fall and winter.

 

[Miniv]

Carolyn,

Remember that you took the horse off the market for all that time.

Some folks would keep the deposit AND the payments, but if you want to act in good faith but still be fair to yourself, I would keep the deposit and return the difference.

Yes, it was not their fault that their living situation changed, but you shouldn't have to suffer either, IMO.

MA

 

[Frankie]

Wanted to add,

it was not one of my "Sale Horses", just a horse they were interested in, so I agreed to sell.

So no, I did not take it off the market so to speak.

 

[Jill]

I think what I basically was trying to say is I can see it both ways and think you will be "right" to choose to keep the money, or to refund it.

 

[Jill]

Wanted to add,it was not one of my "Sale Horses", just a horse they were interested in, so I agreed to sell.

So no, I did not take it off the market so to speak.

494184[/snapback]

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I see... Still, I think you can be moral and just and do it however you want. It would be nice if you returned some or all of the money, but not necessary in my opinion.

 

[wpsellwood]

Sorry going to get flamed here Im sure, but I was buying the horse and for some reason couldnt oh well, my fault not yours. Cant even imagine them asking for the money back. I would be so embarrassed that I couldnt hold up my end of the bargin I would insist you keep the money and the horse. Do you buy a car on payment and take it back and get your payments back. NO

 

[Jill]

I feel the same way, Brenda!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

No, I would not give any money back at all. But that is me, you have to do what you think is best. IME if you give back the payments without the non-refundable deposit they will be on to you demanding the deposit as well. Give them an inch..... BUT it is your decision.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Well if it were "me" I would refund the payments assuming they had a legitimate reason and you feel comfortable with the reason.

I sold a horse to someone who got sick.. she would have been fine at weaning time and had vet notes to say so the buyer just didnt feel comfortable even with the vet notes.. I gave her money back I could have kept it according to our contract however I personally felt it wasnt the right thing to do.

There are so many horses to choose from and so many farms that IMO customer service is a HUGE part of sales and repeat sales. I am honored to say that over 80 percent of my sales are repeat clients and or those they refer.

I try to do my best to be fair to all involved.

there is no doubt in my mind the "buyer" of that foal felt they were treated fairly and respectfully (even if it did take me a bit to pay back there money lol) and that they would refer me again and not hesitate to purchase from me if the situation arose.

Life happens to all of us and I do my best to remember that.

 

[Cathy_H]

My contract on the sale of a weanling this year stated $100 nonrefundable deposit. The buyer continued to make payments & they now have the horse....... If something had happened such as yours I would have kept the $100 deposit.... Since I am soft hearted in things like this I most likely would have refunded them the payments also. One reason is because this is the third horse that they have bought from us..... I say it really depends upon how YOU feel about it but the deposit is definately yours since you stated that in the contract.

 

[pepperhill]

It sounds to me like you would be keeping the horse if it wasn't for them wanting to buy it. It also sounds like you feel they have a legitamate reason for backing out on the sale. In this specific case, since you aren't going to have to try to sell it again, I would give them back any payments they made over the deposit amount. The deposit is yours to cover the cost of the hassle you are going through. It might be different if it was a horse that you had to take off the market for them, but it isn't the case here. The other issue is the contract. If you feel you should keep all the money in situations like these, then change your contract to cover this sort of thing. In the meantime, it only said the deposit would not be refunded. I guess the rest is up to you and what you feel would be right. Are they asking about a refund? Maybe they won't even ask. In the end you just have to do what you feel is the right thing as you have to live with whatever you decide. It may be that you were counting on this sales income and have already made plans for, or even spent the money. In that case you can just tell them that when they signed the contract you started to count on the income and the current payments are already gone. You could take it either way. Just listen to your own heart. Linda

 

[jlh]

I'd probably give as much back as I could, given that you didn't necessarily plan on selling that horse.

I try to keep funds for horse payments "escrowed" til the deal is complete, but have also had the sad experience to cause me to add a clause to any payment schedules that if a payment is missed without notice, board fees start to accumulate against the collected amount.

but if the buyers just got smacked upside the head with unexpected problems, I'm more generous than I say I'll be in writing.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]I think that since your contract only says the deposit is nonrefundable you might morally be obligated to return the payments. but..... they are backing out of an agreement and on my contracts now it says that if they miss 3 payments, or decided not to take the horse after all that all monies paid are forfeited. I had a similar experience when I suddenly went blind. I had to instantly stop working. I had been making payments on two horses from Lucky 4 and one from a big farm no longer in existance but VERY well known. I emailed and called both farms, told them my situation and that I was going to be collecting disability but I didnt know when and that I needed to send one of the horse back to Lucky 4 and tried to negociate a different payment schedule for the other one. Wade and Jon let me send the mare back and applied everything I paid toward her to the younger cheaper horse and renegociated the payments so I could keep her even tho I was missing a couple payments till my finances got realigned. They sent me a letter thanking me for taking such good care of the mare I sent back while I had her and that they were pleased to work with me. They didnt have to do that but they did.[/SIZE]

The other scenario isnt as pleasant. I had paid 6000 of a 12000 horse who was a baby when I bought her and a bred 3 year old when they came and got her and told me the 6000 I had paid was not refundable even in part. They also asked for me to send all the necessary paperwork to register the foal she was carrying.

Two different farms handled my personal difficulty in totally different ways. I guess bottom line is you do what you think is right but know that those you treat with kindness will reward you somehow down the road. Those you dont.....well, word of mouth is a powerful seller or discourager.

Lyn

 

[Miniv]

Lyn made a good point with her experience with Jon and Wade of Lucky 4.

In lui of just keeping the nonrefundable deposit, if you think they will be able to have a horse in the future, offer to credit that deposit amount toward a future horse purchase.

We've done that sort of thing ourselves.....

MA

 

[Frankie]

As I was reading some of your responses, it dawned on me.

In this case if something happened, sub consciously, I had already planned to give it back.

Why? Because I have not spent the money.

I didn't spend it, because I don't/won't until the horse is paid off, in case something were to happen.

So if I put it back for the "just in case" situation, it must of been with the plan to return it.

As for the deposit, I do kind of feel like I am keeping $250, for what?????? They did not receive anything, and when you trade money, you trade it for goods or services. Right? And no, they have not asked for the deposit back and even stated in their email asking for the $450 to be returned, that they were aware the deposit was nonrefundable.

I sure do appreciate all of your thoughts, opinions and experiences. We sure can learn a lot from each other and what we have gone through.

I am sure it will help them to have a better day when I let them know the money will be in tomorrows mail.

I know some of your experiences were not easy to share, but we all learn from them and thank you for sharing.

 

[minicount]

Legally you would not have to send back a dime. They entered into a contract and they are the ones who have defaulted not you. However I was in the situation this summer and sent back the money with the exception of the deposit.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]Carolyn you have a kind heart and that also will come back to you. Would I ever shop at Lucky 4 or recomend to others to buy there, You Betcha! I have and I will continue to do that. Would I have gone back to the other farm even though I had already bought 4 horses from them in partnership with someone else before hand..... after the way they had someone in my driveway within a week to collect their horse.....absolutely not. Now I wont even look at a horse with their farm prefix on it wether they own it or not!!! and I do have money to buy now... Their loss.These people will see your kind act and pass it on and may even come back sometime and spend more money than they did. What goes around comes around.....good or bad.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Sunny]

Well, since this predicament isn't spelled out in your contract, just think of the Golden Rule. Do unto others, etc. How would you want to be treated if the roles were reversed? While, legally, they are the ones that broke the contract, you still have to live with yourself.

I know of a situation where a horse was sold on payments, paid in full with no board being charged (even for the next four months until the horse was shipped!), the new owner didn't want the horse because of height issues and a conformation issue that was verified by a vet (but totally unkown to the seller), so the seller took the horse back (with shipping being the buyer's expense). The seller decided to repay the buyer over time, much to the chagrin of the buyer, but the money simply wasn't on hand anymore. The seller felt that the right thing had been done to make the buyer happy, but the buyer still wasn't very pleased. Unfortunately there was no sales contract as the two parties were friends. If you had been the seller in this situation, how would you have handled it?