Pinto ??

[TPs flat rock acres]

i think I am more confused them before with this color thing WOW. I thought you needed at least one parent to be pinto to have a pinto baby? Can two solid parents have a pinto thats homozygous? at least one grandpart is pinto

 

[JAX]

Yes you need at least one pinto parent to have a pinto foal. But sometimes a pinto has so few markings that they are thought to be solids... So let me rephrase what I just said.

You must have one parent with a pinto gene to make a foal with a pinto gene.

You must have two parents with pinto genes to even have a chance to get a genetically homozygous pinto foal.

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

so parents that appear to be both solid that produce a homozygous Tabiano baby it can be done?

 

[Lewella]

First, let's not use tobiano and "pinto" interchangably as there are four different pinto patterns - Tobiano, Frame, Splash, and Sabino.

The chances of breeding two minimal expression (only leg white) Tobianos to each other is not high even in Miniatures where the rate of minimal expression Tobianos is much higher than it is in big horses. If you do breed to minimals to each other though you could produce a homozygous Tobiano BUT I know of no instance where a homozygous Tobiano individual is minimally marked. Second row of get, 4th foal at this link http://bellevuefarm.com/Mares%20Pedigrees/queen.htm is a classic example of a minimal expression Tobiano (the dam is tested to be homozygous Tobiano).

Tobiano is not the only pattern that can be homozygous. Splash White can also be homozygous but one copy of Splash (heterozygous) does not always create pinto patterned individuals. Some heterozygous Splash individuals may only have a large snip, a little bit of leg white, or a blue eye.

One of the Sabino genes (there are many), Sb1, can also be homozygous. Homozygous Sb1 will usually produce a nearly completely white individual. This Missouri Foxtrotter stallion is an example of a homozygous Sb1 individual - http://www.mikarmafarm.com/stud.html Sb1 when heterozygous can be very minimal or very highly expressed. This mare is a minimally marked heterozygous Sb1 http://www.platteridgefarm.com/libbyped.html where her sire (2nd stallion down on this page) http://www.platteridgefarm.com/stud.html is a very highly expressed heterozygous Sb1 as is her foal from this year (8th photo down on this page) http://www.platteridgefarm.com/foal.html

The only pinto pattern that absolutely cannot be homozygous is Frame. Frame when homozygous produces a lethal white overo foal that is not viable due to an incomplete digestive system.

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

boy it gets so confusing. My little colts sire is a medicane hat you can say as he has very little coloring on him just ears, forhead part of his face, lip and tail area thats it both of his parents are solid sire palamino and dam is chestnut but he is main white with the markings I stated. I would have never guessed his parents would have been solid so that made me really confused. If that is the case should I have my mares all color tested I have the stallions colt his dam is grulla and his sire is the one discribed above is there a chance he is homozygous with his mom being solid. He does have 2 blue eyes if that means anything so doesn't his sire.

 

[Lewella]

If one parent is solid with no white markings then chances of them having a pinto gene are unlikely. Many medicine hats are multiple patterns and many are not tobiano at all but are combos of Splash, Sabino and/or Frame. Blue eyes normally indicate Splash or Frame. Do you have any photos?

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

Of my boy or his sire?

 

[Lewella]

Both

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

Heres my boy please dont mind the clipping job I did first time for both of us lol. As for the sire I will pm you photos of him

 

[JAX]

"First, let's not use tobiano and "pinto" interchangably as there are four different pinto patterns - Tobiano, Frame, Splash, and Sabino."

oops sorry I was just trying to keep it simple as my understanding was she was just curious if it was possible to get a homo pinto from non pinto parents. BTW Lewella LOVE LOVE

your avatar picture! Pusher lines possibly?

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

ok still so confused why is coat color genitics so hard lol

 

[ohmt]

Lewella-Charlotte Lupton has had a few very minimally marked honozygous tobianos. I believe one or two only had one sock and was tested for tobiano and turned out to be homozygous. So it does happen, but rarely.

 

[ohmt]

TP Acres-your colt is definitely tobiano and splash. He looks sabino to me as well, but I'll let Lewella comment on that as my knowledge of pinto patterns is quite limited.

 

[targetsmom]

I hate to be the one to raise the possibility that either the parent's of the Medicine Hat are not listed correctly (was he parentage qualified?) or (another more likely possibility) that the colors were not listed correctly on the sire or dam's papers. Is your question "can your colt (pictured) be homozygous for tobiano?" The answer is virtually 100% "no" if his dam was a solid.

I was pretty sure that I recalled a forum member reporting a minimal tobiano that was homozygous, so it can happen.

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

Ok thanks and that is what I am thinking that the colors are listed wrong on the sires papers I don't know though (as I really am still learning) I have the name of his sire and dam could someone look them up as to what their colors are? I would like to know for my colts records. My colts mother is solid no white marks on her at all she is a Grulla/dun. So I was thinking hes probably splash and was pretty sure he wasn't homozygous as I have been looking for a stallion that was and learned that both parents must be Tabiano. I will have to find out if my girls dam and sire were neg for LWO hate to do the testing if I dont' have to. If he is LWO does that mean he can produce loud colors? I now about the LWO foals and that they don't live long but in the color department what are the results.

 

[Mona]

This is a picture of a tobiano pinto. He has no body markings whatsoever, other than the white on his feet that you see. I thought he was a "solid" bay, but noticed when he was "dropped", that he had a spotted penis, so decided to have him color tested. Sure enough, he tested to be tobiano pinto. Even with such little color himself, he can still throw loud color.

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

so my mare I have that has a blaze one blue eye and socks like him is probably a tabiano as well? or would I have to have her tested?

 

[Mona]

That description of your mare could result in various pinto patters, so if you want to know for sure, test for LWO and Tobiano, and I suppose you could even do sabino1 and Splash. To me, it looks as thought your colt carries splash and tobiano, but could be more.

 

[Lewella]

BTW Lewella LOVE LOVE

your avatar picture! Pusher lines possibly?

My avatar picture is my ASPC/AMHR Modern Shetland stallion Grassmere's Mr. Unique (HOF).

My other Modern Shetland stallion, Willowlawn's Mr. Unique (HOF) is an Sb1 Sabino - same sabino pattern as the Pusher line in TWH's.

Colt in this thread is definitely tobiano. Blue eyes and face white indicate another pattern, likely Splash but could be Frame. Registration info on sire and dam should definitely be helpful to determine where the patterns are coming from.

 

[JAX]

OMG Lewella!! He is soooooo incredible looking! I know its a small picture but I thought he was a Tennessee Walker!

My TW is out of Pusher lines and from the picture he looks just like her when she was younger so I thought maybe same lines. WOW