Need your feedback - NEW AMHA Program

[ClickMini]

Well, I guess I will be the devil's advocate here. There are already quite a few required classes at any given show, and if the show is well-attended, it can run well into the evening! The stock or sport type is already extremely competitive in the performance arena. One of the winningest minis in AMHA performance classes ever is R&B Kingpin. If that isn't a stock type mini, I don't know what is. I think adding another halter division just spreads things out too much more!

That being said, I do think there are some great ideas brought forth in this thread. By reserving the highest awards for the best ALL-AROUND horse, you are bound to increase interest and also class participation, especially if you require that the horse enter a halter class. Yeah, they might not win that class, but by gosh it will help them on their way to the most-coveted All-Around award! The all-around horse program would also promote showing longevity for individual horses rather than bringing them out for a year or two, then retiring them. In a recession, people may very well cut back on breeding, but still want to show their existing animals. I am definitely developing some all-around horses here at my farm!

And speaking of CDE, and its growth in the mini world...how about sponsoring some of this type of competition??? And provide annual/lifetime award potential for participants? Our very large local AMHA club just started up a new program for trail drivers. This is a VERY enjoyable way to spend time with your mini. I would love to see this type of competition grow and flourish even more, with National Championships eventually! It absolutely could be done, with the assistance and sponsorship of the registries. If you had to make a bet on what would increase registry and involvement, my money would far and away be on CDE over yet another halter division.

Just another 2 cents from the peanut gallery.

 

[vickie gee]

Wow! This is mind boggling to someone who double registers but only hopes to one day show. Like another stated due to work schedule. Between getting up around 4:00 am to be at work at 6:00 am and working tons of overtime (government employee/money is good/overtime keeps me more caught up with workload) I basically feed, groom, and adore my minis. Still, when telling myself to "just do it" as far as showing I find myself struggling to figure out whether to get my feet wet in AMHA or the other. As I gain the trust of people that have been doing this for years and ask questions in private about pros/cons of one register over another I find that a lot of people will either show exclusively in AMHA or the other. Also see lots of people selling what they have in order to totally revamp what they are purchasing and breeding for. If I had the time to train right now or the money to pay a trainer I would be in a situation whereas the one maiden mare I have that shows some talent in jumping would now be too tall for AMHA whereas my little stallion could (I know this in my heart) excel in the classes where refined ones place. So that would leave me having to choose which circuit or if I decided to always take both horses it could not be AMHA.

I think some very good points have been made by everyone. All of the brainstorming and opionions are interesting and valuable IMHO.

 

[albahurst]

Wow! This is mind boggling to someone who double registers but only hopes to one day show. Like another stated due to work schedule. Between getting up around 4:00 am to be at work at 6:00 am and working tons of overtime (government employee/money is good/overtime keeps me more caught up with workload) I basically feed, groom, and adore my minis. Still, when telling myself to "just do it" as far as showing I find myself struggling to figure out whether to get my feet wet in AMHA or the other. As I gain the trust of people that have been doing this for years and ask questions in private about pros/cons of one register over another I find that a lot of people will either show exclusively in AMHA or the other. Also see lots of people selling what they have in order to totally revamp what they are purchasing and breeding for. If I had the time to train right now or the money to pay a trainer I would be in a situation whereas the one maiden mare I have that shows some talent in jumping would now be too tall for AMHA whereas my little stallion could (I know this in my heart) excel in the classes where refined ones place. So that would leave me having to choose which circuit or if I decided to always take both horses it could not be AMHA.
I think some very good points have been made by everyone. All of the brainstorming and opionions are interesting and valuable IMHO.

There are numerous AMHA/AMHR shows held in conjunction with each other at the same facility/ same weekend. People show in both registries. It just depends on what shows are in your area.

 

[JWC sr.]

You know after reading all these posts I still think that there is a lot of potential for this division bottom line.

With that said though one of the main points that has come across from this topic and from friends in our area that drive (we don't much, even though we have produced good driving horses for others in the past) is the need for an additional addition to this division in some sort of trail driving and/or CDE type competition.

Presently Halter in the bulk of the entry's in shows around the country, but the fastest growing and most dynamic portion of the mini industry is the driving portion of it. There is a lot of cross interest from the other breeds that AMHA could take advantage of. So while you are at it folks (committee) think about the addition of something like that in addition to the new division.

That type forum (trail driving/CDE) coupled with the new halter division in a stand alone show might work. If the powers that be are adamant about separating the two type shows.

I personally would love t see them combined, as I would love to at least watch it whenever possible and doubt I would travel to a separate show to observe one. But then again you never know. LOL

In any case again thanks to you on the committee and AMHA for thinking about new ways to expand our mini ranks.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I want to talk more about my idea for a second, cause I don't think AMHA needs a whole new division. I think many people agree with that as well. We don't need to have a second show for stock type horses, just an regular AMHA show struggles to bring in exhibitors as it is I'm sure just like any other show.

I suggested a performance halter class. I see for right now you would only need 2 for each sex, 30" and under, and 30-34". I think IMO and I believe this happens in the big horse world, in order to show in the performance halter class you also need to show in a actual performance class. It makes sense doesn't it? Now I understand that takes away from the junior horses but honestly if we have it as saying stock type horse, sometimes you can't tell if they are stocky built that young of age. Also you are going to get alot of people again complaining of he didn't have much bone on him blah blah blah. I think if you just have a regular performance halter class for the seniors, and you require them to actually show in a performance class you get a better response and more money.

I know at AMHA Worlds they do offer a trophy for best all-around horse, requires you to show in so many classes and that includes that you must show in a halter. I think this is an awesome award and wishes AMHR can do something like this.

 

[targetsmom]

I like the idea of a performance halter class - for minis that show in at least one performance class. I think if you mixed that with my suggestion to add an AMHA award for each show for the best all around horse (halter and all performance classes to count) - and then have an all day fee to lower costs for these people - you would be off to a great start!

JMO, I would not include liberty as a performance class in this case.

 

[Charlotte]

JMS, I think this is an excellent idea and I like your parameters.

Charlotte

 

[maranatha minis]

What about judging the horse on what type it is? Like at a dog show. the pug does not have to compete with a great dane, thay are judged on how close they are to thier breed. if the stock horse is more closely like the standard than the arab horse it should place higher. Jugde the horse for it's type. don't judge them agianst each type. just look at the group judges at dog shows, they pic the one most close to the breed standard. maybe add a standsrd for the stock horse so it can have a diffenent standard. just my opinion.

 

[Ronnie]

Ed,

I am currently watching your presentation at the annual meeting of the concept for a “Stock Horse” division. I was not sure about this before but after listening to your explanation and the comments I am sold. Great job and I am all for it, if we can keep the two separate and maintain the value of the refined type while increasing the value of the stock type that is one of the best things to happen to horses since leather!

You know I come from the Reining & Cutting Horse world so I love the stock horse. I also strongly agree with what Mike Rosauer that we need to stop saying we can’t add classes or days because if the exhibitors are there to support it we need to provide it!

Ronnie Clifton

 

[Reble]

Ed,I am currently watching your presentation at the annual meeting of the concept for a “Stock Horse” division. I was not sure about this before but after listening to your explanation and the comments I am sold. Great job and I am all for it, if we can keep the two separate and maintain the value of the refined type while increasing the value of the stock type that is one of the best things to happen to horses since leather!

You know I come from the Reining & Cutting Horse world so I love the stock horse. I also strongly agree with what Mike Rosauer that we need to stop saying we can’t add classes or days because if the exhibitors are there to support it we need to provide it!

Ronnie Clifton

Yes, and gave a good plug for LB forum...

so glad again it is on for all too see and hear....

they also have a place for dial up....

http://www.horseshowwebcasts.com/shows/2010/25300/

 

[Julie/Azariah]

Julie I think it is a fantastic idea and love that you use the LB board to get an idea of what some members might want or think!
I am not sure though why 2 rings would be needed? Seems to me it would be more of a halter type of issue then a performance issue ? Why not start with adding a halter division and seeing how the that goes

Lisa, Those were just some initial thoughts. I sat in on the meeting today and it was excellent.

• 2 rings was a thought I had initially... lots of ideas passed around at the meeting.
• adding extra classes to existing shows is tough because the show management already has trouble getting everything accomplished with the class list we currently use
• One thing that was emphasized ~~ This is NOT going to happen over night!

One thing that I have found out attending this meeting...there is a lot more that goes into forming an opinion based on discussion here~~quite a few folks have changed their opinion on many of the topics presented. It is really eye opening to hear all of the discussion and many of the opinions discussed are very helpful in forming an opinion.

Some aspects I just never even considered about some of the proposals...

I am sure glad I decided to attend... though I did have to miss an event that was very important to our family today (that I was not informed about until today...) I am feeling very much that I needed to be HERE this weekend.

 

[JWC sr.]

Good feed back Julie, I appreciate your thoughts on attending the meetings and then forming an opinion. I know that when we have been able to go and listen many times we have understood and felt differently about different subjects.

The input from folks that are passionate about just about any subject in our industry is always helpful be it Pro or Con on the given subject.

Just like here on this forum, when we all have the time to honestly discuss, thrash and sometimes beat to death a subject, I personally get a completely different thought process and end conclusion than I had before.

Also Ed you did a great job and I appreciate your committees work and input on this subject. Please keep at it!!

 

[HGFarm]

I have read many of the comments, but not all.

I will start by saying that I think this is a great idea. I believe that 95% of the Miniature population out there are NOT the refined Arab type. A good portion, regardless of what they looked like as weanlings or yearlings, do get heavier with age. I am sad to see that the 'Arab type' is all that seems to place in a halter class, as I thought halter was supposed to represent an example of the breed as a whole. The breed as a whole does NOT look like what I see in the ring. And I have noticed the entries in halter classes seem to have declined in the last few years.

Also, as with the big horses, we bred for a good looking, versatile and athletic all around horse that could excel at MANY things, not just be specialized in one thing. So many breeds have gotten away from that. No matter what breed it is, big or small, why do folks need a 'halter' type and then a completely seperate 'performance' type? I dont want a horse that can walk out in the ring and 'look pretty' but can't move out of it's own way in a pleasure class and god forbid if it were asked to compete at speed events, cattle events or <giggle> a liberty class. I had many friends who stuck with the large horses and were so disgusted when it came time to break those young 'halter horses' to ride. They are not sound and can't move worth a lick, but they are all registered under the same breed. What has happened to the horse breeds and perhaps man's moving towards 'perfection' has backfired in some way.

Well, I am veering off from the subject at hand.... I do think it is a good idea, as long as judges are unfortunately going to think that halter horses and performance horses of the same breed should be two different things. And many have stated here, yes, they do NOT see those horses that are picked for halter back in the ring in harness, or jumping, etc.... Something to think about folks- why AREN'T they doing both- and more??

I also think the hardship fees for AMHA are utterly ridiculous and has detered MANY folks I know with decent horses who are just simply NOT going to spend that type of money to double register. This, in my opinion, is scaring away other income and possibilities of others joining in on the fun, or partaking in membership. By charging so much more, AMHA is probably making less because the 'average folks' are just not going to do it. If the hardshipping fees were a third of what they are now, a LOT more folks would probably cross register, thus increasing A membership in the process.

In this economy, something has got to give, and folks are having to make choices on what they can afford. High fees for such things are out of the question. I have a mare that is R only, that qualifies for A, and so does her offspring, however, I have to choose carefully what I spend my limited funds on, especially having excessive medical bills this year, higher cost of living and no raise, etc..... I would love to register her A, and her offspring, but I dont know if I will be able to and I know a LOT of others in the same boat. High fees have simply run a lot of folks off.

I think I also get more bang for my buck with the R shows- and they do have different types of driving classes for different types of horses, so yes, why not try to accomidate everyone? Not many A's have high knee action, not all make roadster types, etc....

I would NOT seperate the shows, but fit classes in, whatever you call them, for the different types so your audience and possible prospective buyers, etc.. can see that many types can excel at various events. I would not have two seperate rings for things going at once either. This is double the cost to the clubs or sponsors of the show- to rent two rings and twice the upkeep. Some places are having trouble staying afloat now. We are down to one AMHA show a year here, and most folks here will not travel out of state to show elsewhere unless they are bound for Worlds- and that is a mere HANDFUL of the population.

Ok, enough babbling here from me now.... just rambling thoughts in written form.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Well, I am veering off from the subject at hand.... I do think it is a good idea, as long as judges are unfortunately going to think that halter horses and performance horses of the same breed should be two different things. And many have stated here, yes, they do NOT see those horses that are picked for halter back in the ring in harness, or jumping, etc.... Something to think about folks- why AREN'T they doing both- and more??

SOME do. Jane's stallion Elvis was AOTE Sr Stallion HOTH this year- he also drives, does showmanship, versatility and she is starting obstacle with him. She's tried jumping, he doesn't like it. Our stallion Lotto drives and is starting to learn showmanship. My Sunny has a HOF in halter and is close to his HOF in WCP. He's also done showmanship and obstacle driving and halter.

I also think the hardship fees for AMHA are utterly ridiculous and has detered MANY folks I know with decent horses who are just simply NOT going to spend that type of money to double register. This, in my opinion, is scaring away other income and possibilities of others joining in on the fun, or partaking in membership. By charging so much more, AMHA is probably making less because the 'average folks' are just not going to do it. If the hardshipping fees were a third of what they are now, a LOT more folks would probably cross register, thus increasing A membership in the process.
In this economy, something has got to give, and folks are having to make choices on what they can afford. High fees for such things are out of the question. I have a mare that is R only, that qualifies for A, and so does her offspring, however, I have to choose carefully what I spend my limited funds on, especially having excessive medical bills this year, higher cost of living and no raise, etc..... I would love to register her A, and her offspring, but I dont know if I will be able to and I know a LOT of others in the same boat. High fees have simply run a lot of folks off.

YES! This! We have several very nice straight R horses we'd hardship in an instant if the fees we less. Even if for one year, cut the fees and waive the inspection if the horse has AMHR papers on it. I'd bet the $$ would just pour in.

I suggested a performance halter class. I see for right now you would only need 2 for each sex, 30" and under, and 30-34". I think IMO and I believe this happens in the big horse world, in order to show in the performance halter class you also need to show in a actual performance class. It makes sense doesn't it? Now I understand that takes away from the junior horses but honestly if we have it as saying stock type horse, sometimes you can't tell if they are stocky built that young of age. Also you are going to get alot of people again complaining of he didn't have much bone on him blah blah blah. I think if you just have a regular performance halter class for the seniors, and you require them to actually show in a performance class you get a better response and more money.

This sounds like a cool idea- BUT make sure there is a clause in there stating a horse can go in EITHER the regular open halter classes OR the Performance halter, otherwise you'll get light Araby type horses horses in here, too- defeating the purpose. I feel even if you make sure the judging standards call for a heavier bodied animal the lighter type may still be picked first. Both types can compete against each other in performance classes.

Lucy

 

[Julie/Azariah]

Addressing Lucy

Regarding the either/or issue...

The committee, as I understand, is proposing to have a "stock-type/foundation" halter category and a "modern/finer type" halter(not the titles, but can't think of the words...long day...lots of meetings) and what I understood is that the idea is to have the ultra refined have a go in the halter ring AND the more "stock" type have a chance at halter too.

EACH would have its own Standard of Perfection written.

You would decide at the beginning of the year which category you were showing that horse in and for that year you could not cross over.

Judges would be expected to judge each type by it's Standard of Perfection.

Just like any open halter judge has to judge an arabian for it's breed standard and a QH for its standard, even in the same ring.

There was so much discussed today and Nothing at all is concrete, but what was consistent was each having it's own Standard of Perfection.

And...we also HAVE to consider that not ALL people want to show their horses ~~ light or stock.

One of the AMHA committees is also throwing around activities that would be smaller, closer to home, that you could go to in a morning or afternoon. Fun things, lighter and more relaxed, but still organized and possibly attaining points with AMHA ( an example... and this is not from the registry, just an example from me) Possibly having a youth competition with just performance events... fun, but organized, well run with an AMHA approved judge, at an inexpensive facility... not all the hoop la.

There is so much on the horizon and I am excited for all of the folks that put their heads together, share ideas and are trying to accomplish creating events that draw more people together to enjoy their miniature horses.

That is what it is all about.

 

[HGFarm]

Field of Dreams- AWESOME to you guys who have pretty horses that perform. THAT, in my opinion, is what it is all about. A good all around horse that is correct and have the 'whole ball of wax' rolled up in one!!

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Addressing LucyRegarding the either/or issue...

The committee, as I understand, is proposing to have a "stock-type/foundation" halter category and a "modern/finer type" halter(not the titles, but can't think of the words...long day...lots of meetings) and what I understood is that the idea is to have the ultra refined have a go in the halter ring AND the more "stock" type have a chance at halter too.

EACH would have its own Standard of Perfection written.

You would decide at the beginning of the year which category you were showing that horse in and for that year you could not cross over.

Judges would be expected to judge each type by it's Standard of Perfection.

Just like any open halter judge has to judge an arabian for it's breed standard and a QH for its standard, even in the same ring.

There was so much discussed today and Nothing at all is concrete, but what was consistent was each having it's own Standard of Perfection.

And...we also HAVE to consider that not ALL people want to show their horses ~~ light or stock.

One of the AMHA committees is also throwing around activities that would be smaller, closer to home, that you could go to in a morning or afternoon. Fun things, lighter and more relaxed, but still organized and possibly attaining points with AMHA ( an example... and this is not from the registry, just an example from me) Possibly having a youth competition with just performance events... fun, but organized, well run with an AMHA approved judge, at an inexpensive facility... not all the hoop la.

There is so much on the horizon and I am excited for all of the folks that put their heads together, share ideas and are trying to accomplish creating events that draw more people together to enjoy their miniature horses.

That is what it is all about.

Excellent! I truly hope it works. I definitely have a few of the stockier types I'd show.

I am just afraid it will turn in to the drivng fiascos we have today- single pleasure horses winning CP classes, and CP horses winning in WCP.... because they are "fancier".

Field of Dreams- AWESOME to you guys who have pretty horses that perform. THAT, in my opinion, is what it is all about. A good all around horse that is correct and have the 'whole ball of wax' rolled up in one

Thanks!

Lucy

 

[shelia]

If the whole idea is to increase membership and get more participation at shows, haveing a new amature class might better accomplish this. I have tried showing in amature and it is very intimidating. I don't consider most of the people really amatures. I feel that John and i didn't really stand a chance in the ring. I did manage to get a reserve grand champion in amature though.

If there could be an entry level amature class for adults limited to there first, maybe 25 entries, That would certainly help new people feel they they are competing against there peers. it would help get some of the people get out of the stands and get down there and show there horse.

Hiring a trainer is very expensive and with this economy there may be fewer people who can do that. If you make it possible for new people to get a sense of accomplishment you will start to get more new people to try.

 

[Minxiesmom]

If there could be an entry level amature class for adults limited to there first, maybe 25 entries, That would certainly help new people feel they they are competing against there peers. it would help get some of the people get out of the stands and get down there and show there horse.Hiring a trainer is very expensive and with this economy there may be fewer people who can do that. If you make it possible for new people to get a sense of accomplishment you will start to get more new people to try.

It is my understanding that what you are describing is the AOTE classes. I have only shown at one AMHA show, but did very well in AOTE level 1.

 

[shelia]

If there could be an entry level amature class for adults limited to there first, maybe 25 entries, That would certainly help new people feel they they are competing against there peers. it would help get some of the people get out of the stands and get down there and show there horse.Hiring a trainer is very expensive and with this economy there may be fewer people who can do that. If you make it possible for new people to get a sense of accomplishment you will start to get more new people to try.

It is my understanding that what you are describing is the AOTE classes. I have only shown at one AMHA show, but did very well in AOTE level 1.

The AOTE has very strict guidelines. Even with that you are in a class with people who have a great deal of experiance in showing, clipping,training ect. A class for newcomers who just want to get there feet wet and maybe see if this is right for them. It could start as a small class, one for mares and one for stallions. any age, any size (under 34 of course.) I know it is hard to fit more classes into a show.

A person way want to try their hand at showing before they buy a show horse. Some areas have a lot of open shows where people can do that, but some do not. It would be great if AMHA offered that.