Need your feedback - NEW AMHA Program

Miniature Horse Talk Forums

Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Sheri Stutts

Active Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Location
Washington, TX
To all Miniature Horse Enthusiasts,

In our country's current economic situation, it is imperative to always look for alternative ways to expand membership and participation within the Miniature Horse Industry. We are a fact finding committee that AMHA has set forth to explore an interesting new concept that could be beneficial to all Miniature owners and breeders. We ask everyone to keep an open mind and think about what we are proposing. This concept reverts back to basics and will give breeders, owners and trainers a well needed option and also add value to a large number of horses.

As it is now in the AMHA, our standard of perfection is almost verbatim of the Arabian association. Not saying that is bad, but it has totally eliminated a great percentage of our breed . A huge majority of our breed does not fit this standard and literally have little to no value. I guess the question that has to be asked is," When did we decide that the AMHA was going to be the Miniature Arabian association". I know that there are a lot of people that like this type of horse, but there are just as many or more that like the slightly heavier type as well. We are not talking about a draft type horse, but about a modern type horse that maybe a little heavier boned, with a more rounded hip and a slightly lower tail set. Buy slanting our breed toward the Arabian type, we have alienated a large number of our members because they do not own, raise or show this Arabian type of Miniature horse. These members, who could well be a majority, have no where to go with their horses and have either stopped participating or got out of the business. There are even those that like the heavier type horse that were forced to change due to the strong Arab influence in our show ring. We all have the right to like what ever type of horse that you want to own and breed. As it is now, the minority is benefitting by having shows which is a very important marketing tool and the majority is left out.

The goal is to set up a new division or separate entity within the AMHA. This division or entity will be structured to give this modern stock type horse a platform to return to the show ring.

Lets say that at the beginning of each year, all show horses have the option to declare in which division that they will be shown. Once declared, that horse must be shown for the entire year in that division and cannot cross over. However, it may go to the other division once the current year has expired. For example, A weanling may do very well in the current show ring this year, but as it matures as a yearling or two year old, it gets a little heavier, it could be declared to show in the new division. Instead of it’s show career being over, it may be the next World Champion in the stock type division and regain it’s value.

The shows will not be held in conjunction with each other. The current type of shows will hire Arabian, Saddle-bred, Morgan judges. The new division will hire Quarter horse, paint, pinto, Appaloosa or other stock type carded judges. This may also help when it comes to adding consistency in our judging programs. Lets face it, an Arab judge and a Quarter horse judge usually are not going to pick the same type of horse. AMHA judges, like all other breed judges are instructed to judge by the standard of perfection. This accentuates the difference and adds to the problem we have today. We all have our preference when it comes to horses and we like what we like. We are trying to create an equal playing field for both types of horses and the members.

The goal here is to create a market and add value to a large portion of our breed. There has always been talk about adding a "B" division for the bigger horse in the AMHA. It may be more beneficial to utilize and help the legitimate ones that we already have. I don’t care how good your breeding program is, we are always going to have those horses that are just a little heavier than what is in demand now. Why not give these horses a venue to compete with their owners who like this style of horse.

There are several positive aspects that should be considered.

1. Generate membership for the association

2. Bring more participation to local shows

3. Adds more opportunity to show

4. Increases the marketability of AMHA horses

5. Gives breeders a choice in direction for programs

6. Trainers can have 2 separate show strings

7. Show managers can produce more shows

The committee is asking for you the members to voice your opinion about this subject. We want to know how many people would be interested and how it would benefit the members and the association. There are many more details that would have to be worked out and addressed, but we have to start with the basics. We thank you for taking time to read this proposal and encourage any and all feed back.

Thank You

AMHA Foundation Committee

Ed Sisk Chairman
 
I think it is a great idea, I have both types and like the arab type ok but I prefer the stock type, I grew up around Paint and QH's so that is probably why
default_smile.png
.

I also notice that the Arab type does best in halter but the stock types are still the best for performance, at least that is what I noticed at all the shows I went to last year.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think thats a good idea, if you look at what some of us are trying to do in Europe . That is have shows for all types of miniatures horses regardless of what type they are...that gives everyone a chance to compete which their particular horse,,,brilliant!!!!

More information on what we are doing can be found on this web site

www.aemhs.com
 
I thought about not even commenting as I don't have a better solution. However, as good as the idea sounds in theory, making it work is not as simple. Just ask the Shetland people who have so many different divisions according to "build" or "type". The idea will only work IF judges are retrained and judges/stewards demand that everyone hold to the class descriptions. Otherwise you'll just end up with a whole new set of headaches.
 
I'm not sure how I feel about holding separate shows for the two divisions but I definitely appreciate the thought behind the proposal and would like to see something along these lines happen. I would suggest looking towards the Pinto Registry shows as they also have to deal with holding divisions for many different types in one show on one weekend and from what I understand they do it very well. Half-Arabian events also offer a Saddle-type and Stock-type (or similar) halter division if I recall correctly, and I am VERY excited by their new Sport Horse events and divisions.

"Stock Type" brings to mind certain stereotypes as well which are perhaps not as positive in a small equine, so perhaps labels of "Light Type" and "Sport Type" or something along those lines might be used instead? I have not been active in the AMHA precisely because of the extreme focus on Arab type and fine-harness driving but do appreciate the AOTE division and similar perks and would be quite interested in showing in a division that rewarded a solidly-built, solidly-trained performance animal.

Leia
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Why would the shows NOT be held in conjunction with each other???

l think a whole extra show for the refined and then the more stock type wouldn't pan out well for a lot of people. But to hire an extra judge or 2 for the same show just to judge the stockier type might mean more exhibitores would show up who don't now because they know they can't compete with the refined type. Just my opinion but the same show at the same time with the extra judges would be more cost effective then a whole seperate show...okay rereading did you mean just the seperate classes or a whole different show altogether?? Anyway l think that would be a good thing to bring in more of the not so refined l know we always try to find out who's showing in what and leave home who we know isn't the right type for that class. A waste of funds to condition groom and pay entry fees for when you know darn well the more refined is going to place over them no matter how much fun you plan to have you can only take losing with a perfectly good non refined mini for so long before you say forget it..
 
I thought about not even commenting as I don't have a better solution. However, as good as the idea sounds in theory, making it work is not as simple. Just ask the Shetland people who have so many different divisions according to "build" or "type". The idea will only work IF judges are retrained and judges/stewards demand that everyone hold to the class descriptions. Otherwise you'll just end up with a whole new set of headaches.
Hi Sandee,

It can work, it does for us. Its quite simple really and everyone gets a fair chance,surely a good judge can see a good horse.. whether that be an Arabian a hunter a stock horse ect...
 
Leia has suggested an EXCELLENT description --- "Sport Type" (being the medium boned and what is usually used for performance, but can also win in halter)........and "Light Type" (which tends to be primarily halter only.)

*****Most serious mini breeders these days (in my opinion) are looking to produce sound all around horses that are competitive in both beauty (halter) AND athletic (performance) abilities.........Producing a horse that can do BOTH has been OUR goal for many years and I am seeing it happening with many other breeders all over the country. I hope other farm owners (big and small) will step forward and ADMIT TO THIS and not bow to what a judge wants! ****

PS: To those who are new.....What a judge "wants" isn't always what is BEST for a breed standard. Nor is it what is printed as THE breed standard. (If one looks at an AMHA rule book, the sketch shows a "medium boned" outline of a horse.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think its a great ideal!

Too bad that dont help me any since I live in Michigan. A lot of us folks here in Michigan would LOVE to participate in AMHA shows instead of AMHR shows as we breed and devote our breeding programs to "A" sized horses of both arab and heavier size body styles. Thing is... all we have is "R" shows which in resault, keeps us from showing as much as we all would love too. In just a few months, I have realized how many folks would prefere to show at "A" shows instead of "R" but because of the long distance, like me, all we have to choose from is "R" shows to show at.

I know that "A" shows have been provided in Michigan in the past, and in other states as well. And may not been totally worth it then as numbers where low, BUT that was then and this is now, and with more folks wanting to show "A". I think it would be nice to do a "trial run" show in this state as well as others to see how numbers turn out. Exspecially if you are going to offer these new classes, Which at local fun shows and fairs, you see more of the "A" sized heavier set minis at. Most of these minis that you see at the fun/fair shows are the ones who are registered with "A" but because they are NOT dainty arab types, they normally stand in pastures till these types of shows come about and only then, they come out and show off their potential which many are surpube show horses, But not "R" show material.

I hope others who feel the same way about this as I do post here to help show that only certian states should'nt provide "A" shows. I as well as others shell out a lot of $$$ to have "A" registed horses and would like to be able to use them in shows. I think if Michigan provided "A" show(s) again, Im surely it would be better turn outs then it did in the past (10 yrs ago) and would be worth it to both the registry and AMHA owners.

THANK YOU!
 
I LIKE WHAT IS PROPOSED, I HAVE THE MORE TRADITIONAL MINIS AND QUIT SHOWING IN AMHA BECAUSE OF THE ATTITUDES. MAY I ALSO SUGGEST LOWERING THE SHOW FEES A BIT (I KNOW THAT IS HOW THE CLUBS MAKE THEIR MONEY), SOME OF US THAT SHOW ON A SHOESTRING WOULD BE MORE WILLING TO PICK UP AN EXTRA SHOW AND KEEP WITHIN THE BUDGET. KEEP US POSTED AS TO THE RESULTS OF THE POSSIBLE CHANGES.
 
I think in theory it is a great idea. I do think the wording needs to be carefully thought out. The wrong wording can in itself draw a negative stigma for some breeders. (sport division vs. stock/draft division)

I don't know if two seperate shows would be a cost effective concept in the beginning. Sounds like it might be a great idea, but I think members may want to see what its all about before they jump in feet first.
 
I think your idea is great. Defintelly need to think it thru, maybe for several years on how to get it done right. I also think this idea is far better then welcoming in B sized breeding stock.

I know it has been said you are going to start seeing horses that can halter only or do performance only. Kind of like in the big horses. I'm wondering instead of adding a whole new division why can't we add a performance halter classes? I think someone mentioned this already. These performance horses will have thicker bone, but they also need to show they do have the conformation to do well in halter. Kind of like the oposite in big horses.

Just a thought.
 
I appreciate the thought that went into this and agree that - in theory at least - the idea has merit. And I am quite familiar with the concept, having owned and shown Pintos since 1996. Here are some of the things PtHA does which I offer for consideration:

1. Pinto "type" is shown right on the registration papers and you need to change the papers to change the horse's type. Also, the registry needs to agree with your suggested type. The types are Stock, Hunter, Pleasure (i.e. Arab), and Saddle.

2. Pinto makes it work by having halter classes usually divided by type, and maybe gender and/or age. So Stock type geldings/mares/stallions. then Hunter type (all), other horse types, then all ponies. Minis are not currently registered by type and are often shown together or split mini mares and mini stallions/geldings. Neither the limited Ammy halter classes nor local level performance classes are divided by type. World Show is probably different but I have never been.

3. Then the Annual Pinto of the Year awards (like the AMHA Honor Roll) are tracked separately for the different types. So, no extra judges or shows, but the less popular types are able to get deserved recognition. As a matter of fact, some people have figured out that you have a better shot at Pinto of the Year with something OTHER than a Stock type horse, so they get the registration papers changed! PtHA does this recognition by type for halter classes and also some of the more popular performance classes.

Most people who show Pinto are very happy with their award structure - something else AMHA might want to think about. That includes their ROMs. Pinto Championships, Legion of Merits, Supreme Champions, Versatility Awards, etc.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have been around miniatures now, both showing and announcing, for 20 years. We used to have classes called "Model Stock" and "Model Refined". I have long maintained there should be classes and a market for the stock type miniatures. I don't know about having two separate shows for the types - there are just so many show dates and venues available. You would increase the possibility of conflicting show dates - both within AMHA and with AMHR show dates as well. I think you could add classes to existing shows as you would still be judging apples vs. apples and oranges vs. oranges - not against each other.

Just my opinion.

Mark Bullington
 
First, I would like to commend AMHA for making an effort to increase the value of these wonderful horses in todays economy. Having bred, raised and shown APHA horses all my life this is one of the main reasons I have switched to the miniature breed. Too much specializing! And it is costing APHA members, horses values and dollars. No where in the AMHA rule book does it state that a miniature horse is to be judged by type. Please refer to page 86 of the 2010 rule book. Confirmation should be what the horse is judged on to maintain the quality of the miniature horse breed. My fear is over time if too much emphasis is put on type more important things like straight legs, lengthy neck or short back will be allowed to faulter thus decreasing the overall quality of the breed. So rather than putting costly efforts into something that may fail why not improve upon the basics that have worked up until now. Perhaps the judges should be judging by the rule book and not by what is the going "type". However if the majority of AMHA members feel it best to create two seperate types as somrthing that is necessary then I think the Pinto Horse Association does an excellent job of this! I don't think two seperate shows would work, as many miniature owners have both types and having to decide on which show to attend would actually hurt the breed. Money would be better spent on adding additional shows in areas where there are currently none, perhaps finding a way to decrease the cost of a show even if only buy a few bucks, maybe having an all day show fee, maybe adding a few more awards anything to attract more people to the shows. If people have a positve experience thet will come back for more and encourage more people to get involved with the miniature horse breed.

miniv-Great Points!

JMS Miniatures-love your idea with regards to Performance halter-AQHA has add similar set up.

Targetsmom-Right on target!

I certainly hope AMHA will hear the voices of these miniature horse owners.
 
I think this would be a good idea. Then horses that look more like a stock QH can be shown at halter? Like in this example?

002-1.jpg


It would also help if in the last year of hard shipping horses into AMHA they would drop the price down like they did for the geldings.
 
If AMHA did something like this, or added a performance halter class, I would hardship over to AMHA and in the future only purchase dual registered horses. The AOTE classes really appeal to me, however, I want a horse who is suitable for more than just halter, and the fine bones arab types, while I find them the most attractive just cant stand up as well in performance events. If I had all the money in the world I would have strictly halter and strictly performance horses, however in this economy I cant afford a big show string, so my show horses need to be able to compete in more classes to justify the price of hauling and show fees.
 
I think its worth looking into but (always a but LOL) right now there are very few amha shows in so many parts of the country so I guess I dont understand how doing a whole seperate show will ever work since there are such few amha shows now??

I know when I first started years ago and lived in Illinois there are zero Amha shows.

I think until you get more shows in general out there this may not work

But I could be wrong!

Kay
 
Since the miniature horse IS a height breed I think it would be easier to add extra classes instead of seperate shows. it just seems to be more cost effective...JMO. With the economy what it is people just are on a limited budget and horses ARE a luxury. Lower the show fees AND add extra classes for the stock type mini to show in. Can't hurt to try it
default_smile.png
 
I think it is a great ideal not just for showing in AMHA but for us breeders who have both AMHA and AMHR registered horses who do like the stockier type build.

I have seen, as you say, weanlings up to 2 year old change and than you do not see the senior mares go on, they just go into their breeding program, and I am sure some do get that heavier bone structure.

My husband believes that, Judges should be able to go by the standards of the breed.

Lots too think about. Excellent New AMHA Program !!!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top