Looking for information from any color experts

[brasstackminis]

I recently aquired a phenotypically black mare who was in foal. The mare was bred to a buckskin stallion. The foal came out a really weird colored pinto with two blue eyes. There is no white markings on his head. His skin is really pink right now. I did a little research into her pedigree and found that she has a palomino grandsire on the stallion side and her sire is a black pinto (possibly hiding a creme gene?). The mare's dam is marked as a "silver dapple" however I was told by a friend that the mare was a very odd color, and looked to be champagne. I looked at lots of pictures of foals with different dilution combinations and he appears to be a pearl+creme color. At first I thought that he was just a palomino, but there is a weird black hue to his coat. I do not see any darkish points or mane/tail hairs. I do not believe that the sire carries the silver gene. So, is he a pesudo-cremelo? light palomino? Champagne? Pearl+Creme?

Does anyone have access to the studbook for the AMHR to find out what color foals she had in the past. Also what color foals the sire had. I have registration numbers for them.

I think I am going to name him Puzzlement! LOL

The foal picture is of the colt. The adult horse is a mare with the same granddam, who has the same color (champgne?)

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The pictures are a bit small to tell colour really.

If the mare is phenotypically Black then she cannot carry Silver, and I am not an expert on Champagne and Pearl but I am pretty sure that these express on Black also, in fact they express on Red as well, so the one to look at is the Stallion, who could easily be carrying all sorts of things.

Do you have pictures of the sire and dam??

Although the mare pictured is not typical of what people call Silver "dapple" she illustrates why I do not like the term "dapple" as I have two Silver Blacks that are only that and look like her.

Are the colts eyes starting to fade??

He could easily be a Smoky Cream Pinto.

 

[brasstackminis]

Well I looked at the Champagne gene and it does express on black and red. The pearl gene was also called the "barlink" gene and it does not show itself in a single copy. However, in a double dose or when added to the creme gene, it gives the appearance of a cremello or perlino.

Here is a link to a picture of the stallion

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/27574...043252599ZKRBdd

Here is a link to the mare's foal last year...not sure of the stallion yet

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/28932...043252599GrwieL

Picture of the colt in question's dam

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/27977...043252599pKJbaW

If you can tell me how to post the pictures bigger on here, I'd love to know! I had to shrink them soooo small to get this site to let me attach them!

 

[Songcatcher]

The sire of the foal is a Buckskin (Cream gene). The dam could easily carry the Cream gene. Therefore, Smokey Cream is a likely answer. Of course, other combinations are possible, but I think Smokey Cream is most likely.

 

[crponies]

I agree that the mare pictured looks to be a shade of silver black, not champagne. Besides that, in order of this foal to be champagne, one of his parents would have to be. It doesn't "skip" generations. I would agree that the dam is probably smoky black and the foal smoky black or perlino.

 

[Kira98]

any way he is goin to be a cool color ! so some were if his eyes are still really blue blue he has an

overo in that pedigree ! now for the Pearl gene thats been traced back to the Barlnk Macho Man

a very well known APHA stallion and they have green eyes not blue have they tested any minis for it yet ?????

I would love to have a heard of GREEN EYED mares and a nice Perlino stallion !!!!! Okay im thinking ahead of myself here

But anyway if its really important to know exacty what he carries ( im not a color expert at all - Im the oh you have a red, black, yella or brown horse LOL)

have a genetics test run on him. the colors are definatly intresting and I would love to find a few sites to learn more on the color genetics

I loved that part of my biology class in high school it facinated me !

please do keep ups updated and let us know what he turns out to be and try to post more photos if you can !!!

 

[crponies]

Blues eyes does not mean overo. All double cream horses have blue eyes as part of double cream.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Splash and Frame carry blue eyes, not Sabino.

You can test for Frame, which, irrespective of what he looks like, you should do if you intend to breed, (plenty of time there, then!)

 

[brasstackminis]

I believe I "mispoke" when I said the colt looked like Champagne. The mare that was is granddam's sister was the same color and her name is Champagne. It gets a little confusing. He has no mottling anywhere and I really am not thinking that he carries the Champgne gene. I am fairly certian that his sire is plain buckskin tobi. So I have narrowed it down to a few likely possibilites

Perlino-mom is black and hiding a creme gene and dad is buckskin so this is possible

Cremello-mom and dad are both hiding a red gene and mom is hiding a cream gene, course dad obviously has the other creme gene

Palomino-mom and dad hiding red but only one copy of creme (still doesn't rule out the possibility of the mare carrying a copy of the creme gene)

Pearl (Barlink) + Cream-from my reasearch so far, in single copies the Pearl gene is not expressed so dam could carry it from her dam's side and creme from sire

I also se no evidence of any Overo of anytype in his pedigree. Only tobiano so ...since my mares are all tobi or solid, not sure if I will bother to test for the LWO gene. Like it was stated earlier...I have time to decide. He is for sale so, it all depends

I am leaning toward the pearl + creme gene only because the color is so odd and her parentage has odd colors too. I want to say (cant be certian right now) that the mare named Champagne had a cremello colt when she was bred to a buckskin stallion.

It would be cool because she would be the first documented miniature horse to carry the pearl/barlink gene...

He is a purdy color anyways.

How do you post pics on here that are bigger? I can't post anything very big on here when I "browse" then "upload"

 

[ohmt]

looks like a smokey creme pinto to me

Pretty positive the dam is hiding the creme gene. neat boy!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I would go for Smoky Cream too.

The thing about the other patterns is that you have NO way of knowing if your "Tobianos" carry Frame/Splash/ Sabino without testing and there is only a test for Frame.

 

[sassy1]

Do you have your pictures saved on your computer as JPEG or as BMP

JPEG pictures are usually much smaller and upload to a bigger size

A handy website to reduce your photos with is http://bigwebpages.com/big/resize.html

This photo is one I have saved in an album on www.photobucket.com I just copy the IMG link of the photo and paste it in a post. The file is only 15.71kb!