I've just read over this whole response. You are fairly new - this is LONG. It's not meant to be harsh, but educational and demonstrated w/ my/our experiences. Get a cuppa' what ever you enjoy - coffee, cocoa, soda, wine or a stiff drink (my choice tonight, LOL) AND put your feet up and ENJOY...
I've had PONIES registered with the American Shetland Pony Club (ASPC) and with the Pinto Horse Association (PtHA). The original ponies I've purchased had their Shetland papers - I would register them with Pinto. A lot of times, the names would not work - ASPC/AMHR names are TOO LONG to use in the Pinto Registry - who do not use Farm/Ranch names or pre-paid suffix or prefix names. Our farm name is "LP Painted" in the front of the rest of the names of our ponies. So we've had to come up with shorter names that would work. It's a major PITA, but was, at one time worth it. Since PtHA is not active here in NC anymore (shows or any other events) and I'd had so many folks not want to pay for them here in NC and I dropped our membership of PtHA - and I stopped registering ponies with them. If a new owner wants to register a pony in PtHA, I'm happy to provide backup documents or signatures on service certificates IF REQUIRED, but I don't actually register the ponies anymore. Honestly, once a pony is purchased and registered in ASPC in the new owners' name, registering with PtHA is their choice - they shouldn't even need a service certificate in most cases.
I don't know how AMHA does naming conventions/rules.
On the mares' breeding dates - I often do breed on the foal heat. I had a Hackney pony mare that would come into her foal heat starting four days after she foaled (usually skipped the first thru third days of that heat cycle, then bred every other day until out of heat). I bred her on her foal heat 3 years in a row - to get an earlier born foal each year. The dates moved from the end of May to the end of March - which was a much better time frame for me to have a foal... Of course, she could have still carried the foal longer or foaled earlier - all breeders are aware of this (or should be). But I wanted to move the dates up - for us, mares & foals didn't do well with a foal born right before the extreme temps hit us here in NC - the 2nd & 3rd foals for this mare did so much better than the first foal (bred & foaled before I got her) that she had (for us).
Also, I've found it easier to keep our mares bred than to skip heat cycles or years.
I had to open up an AMHR registration application to see what you are referring to on that -
(You stated - "on the AMHR Application they put 88 KNUCKLEHEAD ST on one address line, and 99 KNUCKLEHEAD ST on the other, on the same page, just upper and lower parts .... huh
YES, this is quite possible. I moved from one address to another in the same county - right about 20 miles - in 2014. I had mares bred at the one address and turned the stallion reports in from the 2nd address and the foals were born on the new property at the new address. So the registration applications DO show the change. Here in NC, I've seen many people move from one house to another on the same road - could happen when they move from one location while building a new home as well. You'd be surprised how many homes have a different STREET # ADDRESS WHILE BEING ON THE SAME Property. Have a friend (on this forum) that has purchased a home in BIG need of rehab. They put a travel trailer in front of the home and had to get it hooked to electric/inspected etc. The travel trailer has a different address, even though it is literally in the "same footprint" as the home that is on less than 1/2 acre of ground - LOL.
Or it could be a mistake that just wasn't caught. It does happen! I just signed a set of paperwork that seemed like a zillion forms on our home. I had to sign the paperwork different than I normally sign (due to having my legal name on my DL list my maiden name - which I dropped from my signature 28 years ago - but NC keeps a woman's maiden name rather than using her middle name on the darn DLs). By the end of signing, I was tired and cross-eyed and I started signing them WRONG (ha - my normal way of signing)... We caught it in time and we had to go back and re-initial those forms (
). I also, for some unknown reason, dated a couple 1999 instead of 2016 (don't know where that came from, LOL)... Had to re-initial those as well and I backed off of the forms for a bit.
Things happen - even if the mare (a female horse that is mature or of breeding age) was *guaranteed* or vet checked *in foal* before you purchased her, she could have slipped the pregnancy at any point (very sad). Moving to a new home can be stressful. Some mares will lose the pregnancy when they are "shipped" or travel in a trailer - because it can be stressful.
1 - was she vet checked as "In foal" before/when you purchased her? If so, had you paid more $$ for a "known to be pregnant" mare? Did you get paperwork stating that she was "in foal" and that if she didn't produce a live foal, you could take her back to be bred back to either the same stallion or a different one if the original one not available (gelded, injured, sold or deceased)? If she had a "foal guarantee", and then found her to not be pregnant - have you contacted the breeder?
2 - did you have her checked right away to see if she was indeed still pregnant (I gather you actually didn't)? Again - did you let the seller know that she turned up *open* (not pregnant)? Will the breeder work with you to get her re-bred - IF YOU PAID FOR THAT SERVICE?
3 - or did you purchase her as *exposed* to the stallion and "I'll provide the service record" but no contract? This is the way I've seen it handled in many cases since I got back into the horse business in 1997, most of the time. A contract would state that if she turns up not pregnant or doesn't produce a live foal (stand & sucks w/i a set # of hours) that you could rebreed her at no *stud fee*, but have to pay board & vet charges.
When I sell a mare as pregnant (and the last time that I did), she goes with vet paperwork saying she is indeed pregnant and when/how that was confirmed. I also state on the purchaser's receipt - when she was bred, when she should be due and whether she could come back to be bred if she doesn't produce a live foal. I stipulate what is meant by *live foal*. I have sold bred mares for less $$ w/o doing that *live foal guarantee* also - I'm not impressed by the number of folks who don't seem to care if she'll have a foal or not! Goes the same way with some of the Shetland mares I've purchased from other breeders - there is a WIDE difference between these two opinions. I don't know if the rest of the horse industry has changed this way or not - with big horses, in the west where I spent most of our horse breeding growing up days, it was not done that way - at least not with any of the breeders our family dealt with or that I worked for later. We always got paperwork on our bred mares - if the mare was sold to us bred, she was vet checked before she left the farm and then checked again when she arrived at ours. We sold mares the same way - IF we sold her as PREGNANT - she was! This goes with pasture exposed mares as well - though the dates wouldn't be as accurate and would have a wider range. AND if I sell a mare as PREGNANT, and she ends up not producing a foal - I WANT TO KNOW - I might need to have my stallion checked for fertility, i might need to rethink how I'm breeding my mares or ???. The purchaser and I will discuss to what lengths "we" will go to see what went wrong (the more you do, the more expensive it gets) and I need to plan if I'm bringing a "now outside" mare back onto my property for breeding back to my stallion (now, stallions). I need to make sure I have a separate pen/stall for her and time available at the time the new owner wants to send her back for breeding. If I'm out of town for a month - I can't have an unknown mare (even one we used to own) at our place - too much of a liability... *I* am the breeder - not my hubby, not my kids (when we started, they were tots), not my now adult daughters, not my SIL (now 2 - one of whom has NO horse experience). While we have a mini farm, and a lot of ponies, I have NO employees, no farm manager, no stud manager, no trainer and no vet on premises. When I was on the road a lot in 2012/2013 - I didn't even get all my own mares bred and I've had a couple of surprise babies due to gates left open/not secured by someone and when a stallion got loose on his own with a group of mares...
We had a bad accident one year with our Shetland stallion. My fault, didn't see it coming, then couldn't stop it from happening but caused him to be injured in 3 ways. He sliced open his pastern - requiring vet attention and stitches. When he fell while hung up in the fence (he'd attempted to breed a mare I had,not thinking, turned out in the pasture thru his paddock fence) - he hung his genitals up - the severe bruising - he lost all interest in mares for a while and it caused him to be sterile for almost 4 months (collected and tested 3 times). He also, when he landed on the ground, broke off part of his left hip bone - ultimately, we decided against invasive, expensive and unknown to work, surgery to repair or even to remove the bone chip (we did the exrays, we did know the bone was chipped and that the chip was "floating"). I had FOUR "outside" mares there for breeding to him. Thankfully, the one was confirmed in foal, and sent home (and produced a foal the next year). The mare I'd turned out, well, she was known to not be breed-able as of that day (uterine biopsy results back after the 3rd time she came back into season) and we'd already agreed to return the stud fee. The other two mares were just coming into heat and had to be sent home - not bred! The fees weren't tremendous - but returning them HURT and we didn't know if we would have a breeding stallion anymore either... Thankfully, he came back and he did, happily, settle our own mares later that year. He was with us for another 11 years - siring foals, being used as a riding and driving pony as desired - before the "hip chip" came back to haunt us and he was euthanized and buried. But this shows how a "simple" accident can cause repercussions that ripple for years thru a breeder's program and can cause re-breeding problems for a mare sold bred (or even an outside mare sent for breeding at a stud farm).
You state -
"There was no maternal bond, between the two of them, and she bullied him until he learned the ropes, and we learned to separate them when feeding.
she had no milk or teats, we had to buy milk replacer and gradually incorporated soaked grains in when he developed some teeth."
I'm confused. Did you buy the mare with a foal at her side? Did you buy a baby horse that is/was unrelated (completely separate purchase) to the mare and was sold to you too young?
- if the colt was not the mare's, she wasn't necessarily bullying him. He isn't hers and she didn't want to deal with him - which is understandable AND acceptable.
- If he was taken too young from his own dam, he was looking for maternal caring, but some will still look for that at 9-24 months of age. I have known/owned mares that will nurse both their own and other foals up to 2 yrs of age - don't have pics but had one mare ONE year with 6 young ponies that would line up - 3 on a side and taking turns nursing. Trust me, she went thru the feed that year!!!!!! She was a wonderful *nurse* mare and had her last foal for us at 24 yrs of age and was sold at 26 yrs of age and lived into her mid-30s as a beginner riding pony for a 4H family.
- if he wasn't hers/she didn't foal last year, it's understandable that she didn't have milk/teats.
- if he was hers (& could have been??), she could have been weaning him early/dried up due to a variety of reasons - that could also have been why the breeder wanted to sell her.
- at two months of age - he had teeth to eat with - HOWEVER if he wasn't used to eating on his own, combined with being weaned early, he could/would have had issues with that..
Foals generally cut their front incisors and can start eating w/i 7-14 days from birth. They aren't as readily able to digest the feed - depending on the feed - and get enough/the right nutrition from it. The day of birth a foal will sample grass and by day 3 - most of mine are eating whatever grain(s)/feed I'm feeding the mares. Usually between 2 - 4 weeks, I'm feeding our foals in their own buckets separate from the mares. The mares WILL finish theirs and then eat their foals' feed (if the mare is not tied up) - and MOST of ours will drive their foal away from the foal's bucket while doing so. All 3 of our mares this year are maidens. The one mare, "Kechi" will "savage" her filly ("Jynx") - kicking her away very harshly, if she comes near her bucket when she's eating. She actually knocked her down just a week ago and stood on her - 5 weeks after giving birth to her!! (I was sooooo tempted to shoot the dog-gone mare! I do not like it when mares do this continuously - Kechi has a story all her own and part of it is similar to Winston's.) When she let her up, "Jynx" scampered away - and I put feed in not 1 but 2 other buckets in their 16x16 pen - and "Jynx" eats just fine by herself. This group this year - 1 filly born 6 may; 1 colt and 1 filly born 13 may - have been happily chowing down thru hard pelleted feeds w/ most of the time, no water or milk added. With the work we've done with these 3 this year, at 8 & 9 weeks of age next week, I COULD wean them. I have in the past for several reasons - though not usually *just 'cuz*. I usually wean a foal between 4-6 months of age - depending on the foal and the mare. The 2015 foals - see below -
I just weaned "Riddler". He was born in September 2015. He is now 9 months old and I hadn't payed enough attention. He is big enough and mature enough and I caught him mounting mares with a full erection. He could definitely have gotten some pregnant - if he completed the deed. We shall see on that! He can get his head thru the gate - and his dam will walk up, side pass until she's in position and allow him to nurse. When she knows I'm watching, and close enough to run her off - she stays away. But the minute I'm far enough away - she's at his gate - at least 1x in the mid morning and again in the evening. SOOOO, he's not really weaned off of the mare!! However, she'd never been up to weight since having him and now, finally, she's gaining weight and her "bag" is going down, teats are getting smaller.
The filly "Blitzen" was born the day after Christmas, 2015. She is now 6 months old. Where has the time gone??? She also hasn't been weaned. She will be weaned in the next week or so... She'll go into the paddock with the Jr mares - the youngest of which is 3 yrs old now. I'm sure they will run her - sometimes pretty hard. I will need to watch, to make sure they are all okay together and that the older, Jr girls don't hurt her. I may keep her up in their feed pen - meaning hauling extra hay and water - for a week or so - only letting them in and tying them each up - for feeding times.
Some Horseman's Lingo - all pertaining to breeding/general - not to grooming, training, driving, riding or showing
AI - artificial insemination
bag - slang term for udder/teat on a mare (used more often for a cow?)
bagged up - not a slang term (go figure) - used to mean that the mare's udder has filled and she is getting close to foaling.
bred - a mare has been exposed to a stallion - thru hand, paddock or pasture breeding. Pregnancy may or may not be confirmed
by - term to mean foal is *sired by* - referencing the stallion that sired a horse
colt - male horse from birth to maturity or breeding age.
cryptorchid - stallion with an un-descended testicle - may require extra or special surgery to castrate horse.
dam - mother of a foal
dried up - term meaning that the mare has no milk left and udder has shrunk in size
filly - female horse from birth to maturity or breeding age.
foal - generic baby horse - sex either unknown or easier to say. Used from birth to a couple of months.
foaling - term used to mean a mare giving birth
gelding - a castrated, or gelded, male horse. Gelding/castrating is generally done between 9-18 months of age, can be done as early as birth and as late as after use as a breeding stallion.
live cover - a mare is bred to the stallion directly, not artificially inseminated
in foal - meaning a mare has been bred and is either known to be pregnant or is expected to be.
in heat - the portion of the estrus cycle of a mare when she can be bred/will stand for breeding. Usually ovulates towards end of heat cycle.
in season - same as in heat
maiden or maiden mare - 1 - never bred; 2 - first foal for a mare/never given birth before
mare - mature female horse of breeding age.
milk bar - "fun"/slang term - meaning the udder/teats of the mare.
open - 2 meanings - 1 - mare never bred; 2 - mare bred but found not to be pregnant
out of - term to mean foal is *out of" - referencing the mare that produced the foal (drives me insane when someone uses this term to reference a stallion - and I don't respond to such use - if person confuses terms, what else, in breeding, is confused??)
outside mare - referring to a privately owned mare coming to a breeding farm to be boarded long enough to be bred - maybe checked in foal before leaving.
stallion - mature male horse of breeding age.
udder - the bag which contains milk for foals. It is somewhat separated with a teat on each side. Used in singular fashion (udder), not plural (udders).
US or u/s - ultra sound. External is hand held "mouse"/wand used to do an external reading. "regular" or internal - a wand is guided rectally into the mare to do reading.
wean - to separate a foal and a mare.
weanling - the term used for both sexes after they have been separated from their dams
vet checked in foal - mare has been confirmed pregnant by a licensed veterinarian or certified AI consultant.
yearling - a young horse, either sex, between 12 & 24 months of age
For some of your questions, I really feel that you need to contact the person/farm that sold you your mare and colt.