JUST "MY" Opinion of Nationals this year.

[myminis]

WHATEVER YOUR STILL MISSING THE POINT. I don't care if it's Erica, it could be Joe Smoo, next year or the year after it could be someone else. I'm telling you they go by face recongnition on ALL of them just not "erica" as you want her known for. Obviously it doesn't make a tinkers toot to any of you. So just forget it the AMHR will continue to run the way it's running and you will continue to have the big people take over the classes. FINE with me, but I won't be there to waste my money. Last words on the subject from me about all this. Your all blinded by it, you don't want to see change you want to see status quo, no wonder AMHR/ASPC can't grow and attract new people it's people like you that keep it in the dark ages. It needs to grow and change. It can't be run by trainers and big names alone you know it's made up of a bunch of us little people like me and you.

Are you that star struck that you can't see the changes that need to be made in it? Don't you want to see better division in the classes, a more fair judging system? AMHA has 5 judges and two levels and even that is unfair cause some people get through the cracks of it and are in "level 1" that shouldn't EVEN be there.

You need to take a good look at that AMHR and not at that ONE person and REALLY see how you want the future of the AMHR club to go. Personally after I saw what I saw at Nationals I'm ashamed.

You can bash me ALL you want but I spoke the truth. Deny it all you want, hate me all you want, try to protect what you think needs protecting, but the AMHR needs over hauling.

Please don't come back at me it doesn't do any good to go back and forth, I'm through with this I stated my point, I won't answer again. myminis

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I agree something needs to be fixed with AMHR but not for the reason your describing. I just don't see the reason to this post, its just compelete bashing to me for no reason.

 

[ruffian]

I was ALSO at Nationals. Yes, I saw Erica win again and again. Last year I saw Patty Cloke and her driving horses win again and again. One year Larry Parnell stables was winning everything. Guess what? Last year WE won Big! We had the AMHA National Grand Champion Senior Stallion, Eastern Championship grand champion, Julep cup champion. Did I show him? NO at that level because I DON'T HAVE THE TALENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Erica has the talent. Patty Cloke has the talent. Lee Crutchfield, and other pro trainers have the talent.

I think I'm good enough to win locally and place at Nationals, but guess what? I got the gate at Nationals in every class I went in this year. I've got enough gates now for a whole new barn!

Is it biased at Nationals? Absolutely. The judges are human beings. They have about 15 seconds to truly look at a horse coming in and in line up. With classes of 50-60 in the ring, they don't have time or endurance to wait for you to set up your horse again in front of them 6 times, or get their neck stretched, or for you to move out of the way so they can see it. IMO they gave every horse in the ring a chance. Erica showed that when the judges were there looking, her horse was showing. She can get the "look" when necessary. She knows when to have the horse On.

I'm sorry you didn't have a good time at Nationals. We had a great time and did fairly poorly, but it's NOT just about the ribbons and photos. It's about hanging with friends we don't see often enough. Looking at the displays and shopping at the vendors. Watching and LEARNING from the pros and folks like Erica. It's going out to dinner and commiserating with our buddies. It's hugging on our horses because they tried their darnest.

Bottom line - if you don't want to run with the big dogs who may bowl you over, stay on the porch.

 

[AshleyNicole]

WOW.....

I do think that those in the ammy class deserved to place and as far as the trainers they accept only the best horses and the more well known trainers are going to accept and get the best horses. I think if you place against them then you must have amazing horses. I do agree with you on one point I do think there should be different levels in ammy like in AMHA. I think it would help new people coming in not to get discouraged like it seems you are now.

 

[txminipinto]

I, and others got your point. However YOU are missing the point. Those who have doing it the longest with the most horses will always rise to the top. WHY? Because they've PAID their DUES! Everyone in the show biz must pay their dues. Yes, some get lucky and rise to the top quickly. But in order to stay there, they must work hard. Keep showing and keep improving your showstring and you will get there with the right attitude. This isn't it though.

I have this same problem in Pinto. And I'm the "Erica" there. Got an interesting phone call from a new friend who bought a filly from me this year telling me how another exhibitor was doing the exact same thing to me as you are doing here. Bashing. Complaining. Warning others. In reality, this person is JEALOUS. Mad as heck because everytime I walk into the ring, I walk in there prepared, with a conditioned and well groomed horse, and the judges NOTICE. Do I win every time? Nope. I don't want to win every time. Being undefeated is extremely stressful. But I bust MY BUTT to do well regardless of the color of ribbon I get.

Trainers and highly successful ammys work their horses day in and day out. We don't work them 2 weeks before a show. They are worked every single day ALL YEAR LONG. They are fed the best feeds. Groomed with the most care. And receive the best preventative medicine to keep them on top. And are choosen to be in the barn based on their conformation and presence.

Instead of complaining and whining, take notes, ask questions, befriend those you strive to be. You just might learn something.

 

[ohmt]

I think it's funny how NO ONE has really agreed with the OP and yet WE'RE the ones that are blind....if you're the only person who feels this way then could it maybe be jealousy?? I think so.

 

[Loess Hills]

We've been to Nationals, too. And like any large organization, AMHR has problems. Try to name one that doesn't!

 

However, you are welcome to your opinion. But it sounds a lot like sour grapes. If you're going to voice your opinion, why not put a name to your post, and say who you are in your profile?

 

You want to stand up for something...........do so publicly. Can't take the heat? Then get out of the kitchen. JMO

 

 

[~Lisa~]

WHATEVER YOUR STILL MISSING THE POINT.

No you are missing the point. THis is not the way to go about trying to defend how your show went

a horse show is just that a show and we pay for opinions. Might not always like the ones you get (just like on a public forum) but that is the way it goes.

You just wait- watch and learn and try again next time

 

[OhHorsePee]

I am sorry you had a bad time at Nationals! I hope you will give it another try sometime.

 

[gvpalominominis]

I think everyone gets your point... its how you're trying to explain it is the reason for the flames. It isn't a new complaint.

It is difficult as an ammy to compete against pros. Most ammys probably have other full time jobs that AREN'T their horses. So conditioning and getting horses prepared for a show is done many times after hours and when ever they can fit it in. On the other hand it IS the trainer's responsibility to have their clients' horses fit, prepared and ready and it IS their job. I can't say I always see that, but that's another thread.

I believe every exhibitor "deserves" the same consideration in the ring and you are right... the best horse should win no matter whose on the end of the lead.

But you may want to reconsider continuing to bury yourself here.

I like the writer's words of wisdom...

 

[Karen S]

I'm sitting here reading all of this regarding the AMHR National show so I'm wondering if we will hear the same grumblings regarding the AMHA National show after it's over with? Some of the same folks will be there too showing the exact same horses that were in the 34" & Under division. I'm sure if Erica was a member of the AMHA and wanted to take that same string to the AMHA National show with their set of Judges, how many of you would still grumble if she walked away with the amateur awards? Better yet, won in the open division too?

Erica, I too have watched you show from a teen to the young woman you are today. Congrats on your hard work and breeding program. I can remember when we would go to those miniature sales, seeing you sitting there as a youth, bidding on those horses you personally chose to go into your breeding program we knew then (ten years ago) that we would see the cream rise to the top. Honey the sweetest cream always rises first! The rest is buttermilk.

Without young horseman like Erica that have come up through the ranks of our Youth programs and even some our our amateurs who have given up their amateur status and become professionals there wouldn't be any standard to set our personal goals by. Hats off to you for doing so. You've earned the right and recognition! I guess if not then there wouldn't be this discussion going on right now. I have watched many of our youth like Erica, including Robby Barth, Robert Walsh Jr, my daughter Kelli and several others who have a passion for showing and staying with the program. There are so many that come in like a lion and are gone like a lamb in a short period of time. Stop and look at yourself and do your homework. Work, work, work, work at improving yourself and quit worrying about the other guy. You only have yourself to blame and like someone said, if you want to play with the big guys then get out there and learn from them. They put their pants on each day the same way you do. One leg at a time. You are the only one that can make the decision and it starts with the right attitude and frame of mind. JMHO.

Karen

 

[HGFarm]

Right on Charles Family.... and others.

As I said in my other post started by Linda, Erica's mom, sour grapes never taste good to anyone else. And I agree with the others, for not wanting to single someone else out, you sure did. I find that extremely tacky and tasteless, though the sour grapes really had an extremely bitter flavor.

Perhaps you are right and showing is not for you- maybe another sport or hobby would be more to your liking. And I wholeheartedly agree- you have the right to your opinion. I have said things on this forum that others did not like and were totally against my opinion, however I do have the cojones to sign my name and stand behing my opinion and what I said.

And I think we all got the real point here.

 

[Mominis]

Wow. Sounds like someone needs a martini.

First of all, I showed my gelding at Nationals. He was National Champion in my heart. I know how hard my horse worked all year, I know he was trained and prepared to the best of our ability, and I know he looked good. I know this because, not only was I there with him in the rain, the heat, and the dirt getting him conditioned for the show and in the barn training him all season, I was on the end of the lead in the classes and felt him show like a Champion. I have also seen Washburns photos of him from him classes and I am very proud of the picture that we presented.

Now, in the judges opinion, he was 5th. Frankly, I am thrilled to have come out of the ring with a ribbon at my first AMHR Nationals. The color of the ribbon is just a reflection of an opinion of the judges on one paticular day.

I felt that the judges gave me a fair shake (no pun intended lol). I felt that my horse got a good look from each of them. I know, I made eye contact with each judge. Was my horse pinned where I thought he should be? No. Does that change my opinion of my horse in any way? No. Does that make the judging corrupt? No.

Sitting in the stands and watching the judges work other classes before my own is something that I try to do at every show. I see this as simple showmanship strategy. I think that any trainer that takes the time to do this is merely doing their best to plan their presentation.

If your horses weren't winning, then rather than complaining to the judges about the judging and how unfair or "political" that it was, maybe you should have asked them what faults they found with your horses so that you know what to go home and work on.

As far as crying "politics," everytime I hear that word, I remember a story a HUGE named trainer in a large horse breed told me. I had said to him,"It must be really neat to go into the ring and just know that you are going to walk away with a class." He told me that the pressure of having such high expectations thrust upon him everytime he entered a show ring was amazingly stressful. He said that he had to work even harder to meet those expectations for the judges, the horse owners, and the potential clents. So, there are positives and negatives on each side of politics.

And as far as your thinly veiled attack on Erica: STFU, put on your big girl panties, and work harder next year. If you aren't willing to do that...stay home.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I for one would LOVE to see pics of your horses that are National Champion quality (but sadly overlooked), and pictures of you expertly presenting them. I mean obviously they are in tip top condition, shiny coats, superior conformation, etc. Please...do show them off!

I'm waiting...

 

[Camelotcavs]

I hope your loss of credibility is worth the relief of "getting it off your chest".

 

[valshingle]

You know, I was just thinking the same thing...about the photos

Another thought - if you can't beat them, join them. Ask questions, buy a foal with great potential, etc. When I showed dogs, there was one breeder who had dogs that were heads and tails above the rest. So, I got on the waiting list for a puppy and she was the eventual mother of my owner breeder handled Best In Show dog. And they gave me tons of handling tips, loaned me winning dogs to show and learn on, etc. I groomed with them at shows and soaked it all up. I eventually bred a dog that I gave back to these people and he went Best In Show, too.

 

[AshleyNicole]

Wow. Sounds like someone needs a martini.

First of all, I showed my gelding at Nationals. He was National Champion in my heart. I know how hard my horse worked all year, I know he was trained and prepared to the best of our ability, and I know he looked good. I know this because, not only was I there with him in the rain, the heat, and the dirt getting him conditioned for the show and in the barn training him all season, I was on the end of the lead in the classes and felt him show like a Champion. I have also seen Washburns photos of him from him classes and I am very proud of the picture that we presented.

Now, in the judges opinion, he was 5th. Frankly, I am thrilled to have come out of the ring with a ribbon at my first AMHR Nationals. The color of the ribbon is just a reflection of an opinion of the judges on one paticular day.

I felt that the judges gave me a fair shake (no pun intended lol). I felt that my horse got a good look from each of them. I know, I made eye contact with each judge. Was my horse pinned where I thought he should be? No. Does that change my opinion of my horse in any way? No. Does that make the judging corrupt? No.

Sitting in the stands and watching the judges work other classes before my own is something that I try to do at every show. I see this as simple showmanship strategy. I think that any trainer that takes the time to do this is merely doing their best to plan their presentation.

If your horses weren't winning, then rather than complaining to the judges about the judging and how unfair or "political" that it was, maybe you should have asked them what faults they found with your horses so that you know what to go home and work on.

As far as crying "politics," everytime I hear that word, I remember a story a HUGE named trainer in a large horse breed told me. I had said to him,"It must be really neat to go into the ring and just know that you are going to walk away with a class." He told me that the pressure of having such high expectations thrust upon him everytime he entered a show ring was amazingly stressful. He said that he had to work even harder to meet those expectations for the judges, the horse owners, and the potential clents. So, there are positives and negatives on each side of politics.

And as far as your thinly veiled attack on Erica: STFU, put on your big girl panties, and work harder next year. If you aren't willing to do that...stay home.

Exactly what I was thinking especially the end lol

 

[tagalong]

You can bash me ALL you want but I spoke the truth. Deny it all you want, hate me all you want, try to protect what you think needs protecting, but the AMHR needs over hauling.

Please don't come back at me it doesn't do any good to go back and forth, I'm through with this I stated my point, I won't answer again. myminis

Yes, you will answer again. Because those who pride themselves on starting a thread that bashes and trashes will always read what the replies are - just so they can douse everything with gasoline again and tell everyone else how ignorant they are. You know, you could have voiced your concerns in a calm manner. But no - you come in here with guns blazing and then haughtily inform everyone else that they better not flame you but you can do whatever the heck you please! Well, it does not work that way. And if your defiant, somewhat arrogant attitude showed in the ring and around the barns, I feel badly for your horses.

This does sound like whiny sour grapes. Because that is the way you have presented yourself - Ooooh last year I won blahblahblahblah and this year I did not repeat all that so now I will have a fricking TANTRUM. Someone else said pull up your big girl panties - and I agree.

Here's some news for you - the BNTs (Big Name Trainers) will always have a quality horse on the end of the line - that they present in the best way to hide any flaws. They do not have CRAP out there. I may not care for all of the BNTs but I can recognize that the horses are worthy. No horse is perfect of course - they all have flaws. Even yours - *gasp*. And yes, the judges will know that the BNTs will only be showing a stellar horse.

Here's another newflash for you - we have quality horses out there with a BNT - and we do not always win everything! Last year was a much better show for us. This year a horse that went Grand last year got 7th. Them's the breaks, as they say. But is anyone with our barn on here having a tantrum because we did not repeat all placings from last year? No. Of course not.

Politics will always exist on ANY show to some extent - but to bitch that politics and politics alone governed the judging is not only a lie - but completely unfair to the quality horses that were doing well.

Did you see the judges cards? Did you see what judge used your horses and where they were placed?

I felt you were OVER confident that it was a trainers show, that were were a SELECT group of you and when MARK came on and was SCREAMING on the MICROPHONE about these being some of the best horses in the world, I wanted to PUKE. NO they weren't the best horses in the world were out in the stalls.

THAT ^ attitude? That you have displayed so well? It SUCKS. I might forgive you for it if you were 12 (with apologies to wellspoken, polite 12 year olds everywhere) But to pitch a hissy fit like this and insult others because they do not praise you and give you a tongue-bathing for your "wise" words? That was beyond rude, pointless and classless. As was singling Erica out. Classless.

So kindly tell me what your little tantrum and YELLING in this thread has accomplished? Next time, try to present your points as a rational, concerned adult... and not like a petulant teenager who just found out she was grounded. There were a thousand better ways to do this - and yet you chose this approach? Wow.

Unbelievable. Any valid points you may have had were completely lost in the flood of venom and self-righteous indignation...

IMO - even if there were two Ammy divisions as there are in AMHA (the only thing I completely agree with you about), you would still be unhappy unless you had a blue in every class. And that - is never going to happen.

Wow. Sounds like someone needs a martini.

... or six.

 

[CLC Stables]

When you do use full names get them right at least. MR. ED SISK would appreciate it.

 

[tagalong]

Oops, This was supposed to be an edit but I created a new post instead.... oh well.

I'll repeat this one BNT story as an example....

Some years ago at AMHA Worlds, everyone in the barn was grumbling about how one filly that a BNT was showing was winning everything and yet she was AWFUL Doncha Know and it was obviously political. I had seen her show from the gate and from the stands and she just looked ho-hum. You often hear a bit of that at any show, so I just shrugged, said - "she must look different up close in the ring - she does show well" and got back to work clipping, bathing, mucking etc.

That filly cleaned up in every class she was in. I found myself in the washrack after her final class - our filly had come 3rd or 4th and I was giving her her final Get This Goop Off Me bath...

In the wash stall next to me was a girl working for that BNT , giving That Filly her bath.

That filly was STUNNING. Even soaking wet with her tail clamped down, pouting about her shampoo, she was STUNNING. A completely different horse when you were up close to her. Did I mention that she was STUNNING? She deserved every ribbon she won.

Sometimes what we think we "see" and "know" - is not the "Truth". That filly taught me that, big time.

When you do use full names get them right at least. MR. ED SISK would appreciate it.

You beat me to that one. Mike Sisk? Uh huh.