Inform me: Horse Slaughter

[New_Image]

I dont care about the cows in Hindu, lucky them they get a long and happy life, I am talking about the horses in America.

I have to agree with Coco - how many people do you see ridden there cows in shows? Or driving there pigs in carts? Or taking there chicken for a walk?

Horses carried man threw history, they deserve more then to be torchered on the way to a slaughter house, ripped apart and used for food.

Is this the same forum that was all upset because some one stuffed there mini horse foal? Might I ask the difference in sending that foal to a slaughter house to be used as food or to keep her body in the corner of the living room? I remember every one of you thought it was sick, wrong, nasty and the filly should have been laid in the ground and burried - but you mean to tell me it would have been better for her to be torn apart? Im missing something here. Wheres the difference? I think you all change your minds like underwear and just go with the flow on different things for lack of conflict

Any how, dead horses, yes go ahead and slaughter them if you wish, but why go to a action and buy a perfectly healthy horse who could be used for ridding and change some ones life - why kill it? If any one hasnt noticed America isnt exactly lacking on food, in fact 90% of the americans could stand a little less meat and a diet.

OK and even if it were ok to kill a horse, which there is a great over population some do need to go, your all ok with the fact that some slaughter houses dont KILL the animal before hanging it upsidown and pulling it apart? Might I add that is after a long trip pack together like a sandwich, not fed for days and days, half of them die on the way there.

Pretty said your all in a up roar that some one stuffed there foal but its ok for healthy horses to be torn apart before they are dead all for food that we dont need.

 

[justaboutgeese]

I think some members have been watching video clips from PETA.

 

[shminifancier]

Yes those few videos of a bad kill come wrong...Oh well as I am about to really enjoy my beef roast today while watching the Packer Play and that steer (Hamburger) was such a pet and halter broke so well it would (If I would have let Him) He would come in the house

...And now I will be filling my belly this aft on a roast that has been in the Crock Pot since late Last night cooking on slow...

And after working for years at a Processing plant that processed 30,000 Chickens a day..I know from being around Processing plants and yes I have seen where my steer is taken I only live 8 miles from that plant and how they put em down..One of my steers I even led him up the ramp and into the holding stalls while I reached in and took off his halter...And horses are put to sleep the same way,, Sure not hung upside down while alive

...Oh my that PETA video is so wrong on so many things...Brain washing so many good people into thinking that this is the way it is and there is no other way of putting the horses out of their misery...All I can say is a Big Uff Da....For you people that don't know what that means it is the same thing as when Charley Brown would say Oh Good Grief

 

[ilikemini's]

I guess my .2 cents worth might not mean much in this post. But I do not have a problem with the slaughter of horses. But I have a huge problem with the way they are transported and held in the catch pens once there. And the way it sounds now if this does go into law. The inspection part would be stopped? That is not what should be done. More inspections and tighter laws is what should be in acted. And after that start going after the very big breeding operations that are flooding the market in all breeds. Start working at that instead of doing things this way.

Well off my soap box now. And flame suit is on, I don't mind.

 

[justaboutgeese]

Many people are under a false impression regarding meat inspections. I will start by saying if you have a problem with horses be transported and penned that sounds more like a problem for the SPCA than the meat inspectors. Meat inspectors do not protect animals, they do not grade meat. The meat inspector just checks to make sure THE ANIMAL WAS NOT DYING WHEN IT WAS KILLED. They check to see that the liver is not enlarged or diseased, that the lungs are clear, the heart was not full of worms and things of that nature. As well as the animal was completly stunned before is was bled out. Animals that do not make the grade make the "barrel".

 

[runamuk]

ahhh teenagers can't live with em can't wait for them to grow up

 

[OhHorsePee]

Well, I use to lead the cows out to be put down for butchering. I had bottle raised them. Played with them. Nursed them if they were ill. It is not the same as when horses are auctioned off. I am destined to sneak my camera in next time I go to auction and if Mary Lou doesn't mind I will share. I've raised rabbits for meat, pigs from babies to eat and I have eaten deer. Did not care for the deer meat too much. We were raised po' and I have eaten turtle from the creek. It is not uncommon for a draft horses to be crammed in the pen along with yearling TB's or QH's. Ponies even. Eat what you want, but it is senceless to me to have animals tortured prior to dieing. JMO

Fran

 

[tagalong]

Meh - I probably should not post this... but here goes... and there is no "TONE" here - other than concern...

I dont care about the cows in Hindu, lucky them they get a long and happy life, I am talking about the horses in America.

Cows are sacred in INDIA, Nicole. Hindu is a religion.... and language...

Horses carried man threw history, they deserve more then to be torchered on the way to a slaughter house, ripped apart and used for food.

The transport issues are the ones we are trying to address.... if you go back and actually READ

my post about the slaughterhouse... and give it the same kind of attention and credibilty as seems to be given to the sensationalist stuff... then maybe you can understand that at the slaughterhouse itself - sustained "torture" does not go on... short. Quick. BANG. And IMHO once dead - what happens to a body - even mine! - matters not. Why not "recycle" it?? Horses have also been eaten through history....

Is this the same forum that was all upset because some one stuffed there mini horse foal? Might I ask the difference in sending that foal to a slaughter house to be used as food or to keep her body in the corner of the living room? I remember every one of you thought it was sick, wrong, nasty and the filly should have been laid in the ground and burried - but you mean to tell me it would have been better for her to be torn apart?

Bolding mine. That is not quite accurate, Nicole. And what did you think about the stuffed foal?? *shrug* I could have cared less... if those folks wanted a stuffed foal in the corner of the living room - well, it was their business. Not my taste - but we all have different styles and opinions. And a foal that small would not have been processed... or "torn apart" as you say.... anyway.

I think you all change your minds like underwear and just go with the flow on different things for lack of conflict

Being one of the younger ones on the board does not grant you the permission ...

... to slam other posters for their opinions. I have worked in the horse industry for many years - from the bottom looking up... and can sadly tell you that on the scale of cruelty and abuse to horses...the slaughterhouses come nowhere near what goes on down the road from you in someone's backyard.... behind the scenes (and behind the barn) at horse shows etc. At the slaughterhouse - the suffering at least ends. Quickly. For many horses - it just goes on and on and on. They get beaten. They starve. While people are indignant about the slaughterhouses that they created a need for... the suffering continues.

Any how, dead horses, yes go ahead and slaughter them if you wish, but why go to a action and buy a perfectly healthy horse who could be used for ridding and change some ones life - why kill it? If any one hasnt noticed America isnt exactly lacking on food, in fact 90% of the americans could stand a little less meat and a diet.

Why breed indiscriminately?? If there were not too MANY horses - the supply would dry up. Everyone gets on the spay and neuter bandwagon for dogs and cats... but horses do not fall under that category. At least mares can't have litters...

And not every horse that goes through an auction mart is rideable... or healthy and sound in mind and body. I think people need to go to some sales. Lota of them. And see the couple drop off their kid's old mare, not even do a write-up about her - and drive away. Guess she was no longer convenient to have around. Is she well broke? Is she good with kids?? Supply some info... and someone might buy her. Or see the beautiful huge Quarter Horse stallion come into the ring - my he was stunning... with a red sticker over his tail... that means MEAT ONLY... or at least - the canners only. Why?? He was dangerous... and according to the auctioneer had seriously injured several people. He was not going to be used for riding. He had already changed lives.... for the worse. Now the owners could have taken him directly to the plant themselves - but they didn't. Blame them - not those who have to clean up behind them. I wish everything had an easy solution, Nicole - but it doesn't. It is not the slaughterhouses that are to blame here - the problem is at our end. The slaughterhouses are just the final chapter and the end of the line...

OK and even if it were ok to kill a horse, which there is a great over population some do need to go, your all ok with the fact that some slaughter houses dont KILL the animal before hanging it upsidown and pulling it apart? Might I add that is after a long trip pack together like a sandwich, not fed for days and days, half of them die on the way there.

Bolding mine... so now you admit that "some need to go?" How do you decide which ones??? And how should they "go" then??

Why are you assuming that we are all "okay" with the horrendous stuff??

NO slaughterhouses process live horses. Watch the video on the link that Love Coco provided ... if you can. No live horses being processed there. If one lousy slaughterhouse employee screwed up at one point... it is not the norm. Again - I choose to see things with my own eyes - and not rely on PETA-type organizations sensationalizing everything. The horse is DEAD DEAD DEAD before he goes on the hoist. Legs may flex a bit with the lift - but the horse is dead. That is for sure. I have seen enough necropsies to know that some muscle movement keeps twitching as a reflex.. but the horse is DEAD.

There is one sad picture that makes the rounds on assorted rescue websites, animal rights sites etc. A chestnut horse being lifted in the air, head down, outside... the horse is dead. Either brought there (to a plant) that way... or perhaps, sadly, a "downer" from a truckload. I have seen that same picture labelled and re-labelled to suit the needs of whatever the person hosting the site wants. I have seen it captioned as "a terrified horse writhing and struggling not to die on the line at the slaughterhouse".... or " the horrors of the auction mart where the dead are dragged from the ring" HUH?? ... or "the inhumane treatment of PMU mares who are forced to go in the barn..." Yep - you drag them into the barn upside down.... only NOT.

I use that as an example of the need to step back sometimes... and think about what you are seeing. We all follow our heart - we all love horses... but all too often are working at cross-purposes... and that does not help the horses.

Instead of firing off nasty letters to the slaughterhouses... work from the other end to dry up the supply. It is OUR fault (in the generic sense) that there are so many horses. That they are disposable. That there is nowhere for them to go.

The main cruelty here is the way some of them are hauled... and at least steps are being taken to address that.

******

Years ago I took my TB gelding... who had raced for 10 years (and thus been fairly successful at it) and then been "turned out" for a year before he came to me... skinny... and depressed. I bought him for $1... from the therapeutic riding association he had been "donated" to... as he was in much too rough shape for them to rehab. In time he became that sleek TB again. And as an adult beginner, I was often no match for his speed... and phobias

... and we parted company *cough* on many rides... but he taught me a lot. And I taught him that the phobias were silly... and he came to believe in me. So when his kidneys started shutting down one winter... it was clear the end was in sight. On a frosty -20 morning, a friend helped me load him up for the last ride - and we made an appointment... we drove into the city - to the side door of the "plant".... where a soft-spoken and sympathetic man helped us unload him... and led him in a side door (no ramps etc.)... I fed him some treats... and hugged him and stroked his velvety nose... and sent him on his way. Quickly. Painlessly. I may have driven off and left his body there... but his spirit stayed with me. Sometimes... I think he is still there. IF ANYONE tells me I did not respect that horse... and care for him... and do what was best for him.... well... I have no words. No. Words. *sigh* Except perhaps... how dare you....

 

[shminifancier]

Very well said tagalong

If some now, will let what you posted sink in.

What you see on those PETA type sites are set up to show only that one or 2 that have gone astray. But after looking into slaughter type houses of which, Really should Called Processing Plants, as that what they do, is Process the animal, into whatever it is they are handling at the time..Be it dog food, cat food, fertilizer, or food for humans.

 

[Gizzmoe]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. As a few have stated a lot of the problem with the slaughter of animals including horses is the transportation of them. Personally I don't like the idea of slaughtering horses. On another hand I can see why it is necessary. I have personally seen people try to sell their horses and because they couldn't get an interested party for the, just kept them and neglected them to the point of starvation. Just because they couldn’t make a few bucks off of them. You have to remember not everyone has the same views as horses/animals that many of us animal lovers on this forum have. And as New_image said yes there are many a child who want that special pony/horse. But realistically thinking that is not always possible. Many times now a days especially with the economy being the way it is many people are lucky to be able to own a dog or cat and be able to take care of it properly the way that it should. Yet alone a horse. Horses are expensive and not everyone has the ability to take care of one. As for horses being used more then cows that is wrong too in a sense. There are many cultures where cows/oxen are used to help plow fields, pull carts etc. As far as the stuffed mini foal goes. If I remember correctly a lot of people thought the story of the foal being born stillborn etc was a bunch of bull hockey. I could be wrong there but that’s how I am remembering it. People were saying that the foal was too big, developed etc to be a newborn. There are many problems that are going to be associated with this bill, unfortunately though many people only look at a single concern and not the overall picture. I have pets and love my pets dearly. Unfortunately yes I have had a couple that I had to take to the pound because they were ill and at the time I couldn’t do anything for them to help them. I knew they would be put down instead of suffering. I think the same applies for horses. Many people take horses to auctions as a last resort if they can no longer care for them. If the slaughter people get them, yes the idea isn’t cheery etc but at least they know that their beloved equine friend isn’t going to end up in someone’s back yard as a novelty that doesn’t get taken care of. Now I am probably rambling so I will quiet myself. But that’s just my view on things.

 

[justaboutgeese]

Horses are expensive and not everyone has the ability to take care of one.

This line is singly important in that without taking it out of context is very wrong. A horse is not terribly expensive. Any body going to an auction knows that a horse can be had for what is actually very little money. What is expensive is the care of that animal after you own it. Feed, farrier, vet and dental costs soon easily total to far more than the actual cost of the animal. A person can buy an animal use it for a summer or a particular purpose then just stake it outside and not even have the expense of fencing, forget the vet , farrier, wormings, innoculations and feed costs.. Ever seen a horse tied out ?? If an owner never invests another dime in this animal he can use it the whole summer or season etc then run whats left of the animal through the auction and repeat it all over again. Think this is never done ??? If it were not for auctions and slaughter houses what would become of these throw away animals ? Just turned loose to fend for themselves like unwanted dogs and cats. Think this has never happened ?? Think again. I would like to offer to take a couple of these "younger members" on a learning trip to a slaughter house. PETA video clips and isolated snatched photos do not offer a true representation of the real world. I doubt any really want to see the other side caring only to dwell on the half truths and innuendos for their information.

 

[New_Image]

Tagalong - what can I say, I was in a hurry.

I have seen PLENTY of video clips and videos that are proof they are not always killed before they are ripped apart, they are brain dead but not killed, thats why I dont like slaughtering horses.

Being one of the younger ones on the board does not grant you the permission ...

... to slam other posters for their opinions.

And being old would?

Bolding mine... so now you admit that "some need to go?" How do you decide which ones??? And how should they "go" then??

Why are you assuming that we are all "okay" with the horrendous stuff??

You know what I mean. Maybe you are the one who needs to go back and read.

Now I understand there has to be slaughter houses, I dont like it, but I dont like they way the animals are treated and I dont like the fact of killing a perfectly good horse. I agree if they are dead, I dont care!

Any how, I have already said everything I am going to say I hate repeating myself so go back and read my previous posts and pretend there new because thats what Im going to say any hoo.

Off to ride a horse!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I do not have a problem with horse slaughter- I cannot see why anyone would object to what is a part of life. As I keep saying and others are now stating to pick up on- the problem is with their treatment whilst they are alive, not after they are dead- why would anyone care what happened to a body after death??Maybe you need to be as close to it as I am to think that way, I don't know. Anyway, I live within shouting distance of two licensed slaughterhouses and have used their facilities on numerous occasions- who else will come in the middle of the night and remove the carcase of a dead friend, or end their suffering?? It will be a cold day in he** before I let a Vet do it with an injection- and if my friend can then feed the hounds- or be some other use- so be it. Of course the live transport of that friend is never going to happen!! I don't like the way horse dealers of a certain European country handle my animals- I know they are dealers, I know it is their business, I also know they sell for slaughter, and have seen the video's of what happens then. If the horses stay in their country the rules are really strict and the slaughter houses are exemplary. An awful lot of the horses, however, are transported to Italy or Spain. Since they cross as many as six borders the rules change all the time and it is possible to transport animals from the left hand side of Europe right down into the toe of Italy without giving them food, water or rest. The clock resets at every border, you see. This I do not, cannot, will never condone. My horses will never be eaten as they will never leave my farm alive and only an animal shot in a licensed for Human consumption slaughterhouse may be put into the food chain. All my horses papers are marked "not for Human Consumption" as far as I know the American registries do not do this, perhaps they should (The horses HAVE to have their papers to go anywhere- another thing you could use??) This effectively means they will never be transported for meat as there is no value in an animal this small for dogmeat.

 

[shminifancier]

Speaking about how that bill is worded..This is right off from "Just Say Whoa~! To Horse slaughter

H.R.503

Title: To amend the Horse Protection Act to prohibit the shipping, transporting, moving, delivering, receiving, possessing, purchasing, selling, or donation of horses and other equines to be slaughtered for human consumption, and for other purposes

And with that worded that way and for other porposes...WOW you think some of you have trouble on this board with a small group of people,,, Just wait till PETA gets a hold of that one~!!! That is word for word from that site nothing added or deleted~!

 

[tracerace]

Tagalong, your first post on your experience with the Canadian slaughterhouse is very eye opening. I'm grateful for your post, and for gaining some insight through your experience.

I think the point you make, based on that American "stigma" is spot on! Actually, your theory altogether is spot on in my book.

DO you think that the slaughter houses in the US are not as well organized and/or humane because they do so much under the public radar? Or do you think the IL and TX facility are similar to the one you visited in Canada?

I'm wondering what the difference is and what causes horse slaughter in this country, to bring out the inhuman behaviors in those involved?

I am beginning to think that if there were more plants in the US than there would be less strain on the horses too.

Now, there will be a very long trecherous trailer ride over boarders for horses - with this new law passed. It's horrifying to think what will happen on those rides.

 

[tracerace]

I am so agianst horse slaughter that you just have no clue. Its sad that people beleive that its perfectly fine.

LoveCoco, you can be against it all day long, but until you start sharing a solution, all you are is angry. It isn't "perfectly fine" to slaughter any animal in my book - but it's the way it is. Humane slaughter is the best we can hope for, and what we should be focusing on. There are many contributions to horse slaughter - heck I read that buying a QH contributes to the demise of horses since it is the most prolific breed being slaughtered in the US...therfore a purchase encourages more breeders to breed! It's a view, not necesarily MY view, but they've made a point. Just because there is a "girl" somewhere that would be happy to keep a horse, doesn't mean that there are hundreds of thousands every year who are willing to take on an animal that will live as long as 35 years.

LoveCoco...what do you think the solution is to horse slaughter?

Also, you said this:

a chicken/duck is a chicken/duck ..dont see to many people falling in love w/ a chicken.

You have not met "Toddler", my daughters banty hen that does tricks. She rides around on her bike, with that hen in the basket. We actually just sent a visdeo tape in to Animal Planet - she LOVES that chicken!
Tagalong made an excellent point about abuse. I have chosen to focus my energy on animal ABUSE, not slaughter. Abuse is much more previlant (sp), and is actually part of the overall problem contributing to slaughter anyway. We can stop abuse at a local level...that will eventually affect some horse, somewhere, that would be destined for a packer.

 

[tagalong]

I have seen PLENTY of video clips and videos that are proof they are not always killed before they are ripped apart, they are brain dead but not killed, thats why I dont like slaughtering horses.

Nicole... read the part I bolded again. They are BRAIN DEAD... bolt through the brain - often more than once to make sure... that is killed/dead by any definition - even a hospital's...

And I have not seen PLENTY of vids where they are ripped apart writhing and screaming... there aren't "plenty". I do watch these things - and have done so for years - as I want to know what is going on. I have also seen the real thing - but again - you choose to ignore that. Watch Coco's vid link.... and please note DEAD horses. I am sorry - but you are sensationalizing.... I know your heart is in the right place... but...

No worker at a slaughterhouse is going to deal with a writhing, squirming, kicking 1000 pound horse on a hoist overhead... a gruesome point to make - but a realistic one. They want them DEAD. They need to be DEAD. They make sure they are DEAD. As I said earlier - if one slaughterhouse employee screwed up at some point... and someone just "happened" to be there to video... it is a an extremely rare... if ever... event. I am talking about the LARGE slaughterhouses that everyone gets in knots about - not the small joints where God knows what goes on... and where I suspect that the occasional vid has come from.

Being one of the younger ones on the board does not grant you the permission ... 

  ... to slam other posters for their opinions.
And being old would?

Whoa. Low blow.

But anyway - I did NOT slam you for your opinion. I did not say you changed your mind on a whim or merely to join a fight. Or were cruel or ignorant. Or that you did not love and respect horses. Far from it.

Bolding mine... so now you admit that "some need to go?" How do you decide which ones??? And how should they "go" then??  Why are you assuming that we are all "okay" with the horrendous stuff??

You know what I mean. Maybe you are the one who needs to go back and read.

No Nicole... I am not a mind reader.

I do not know what you mean. How should they "go"? Where should they "go"? I think you need to enlighten me - or all of us... *puzzled*

Anyhoo... I tried.... but as I have found time and again on this board... actual experience and first hand accounts of hot issues do not count for anything with many here... oh well.

Remember - horses have been eaten through history as well - and not just carried us into battle... plowed our fields... pulled our wagons etc.

 

[shminifancier]

not the small joints where God knows what goes on... and where I suspect that the occasional vid has come from.

And NO legislation would stop those from operating anyway..That stuff will continue as those are Not inspected plants in the first place..

 

[capall beag]

Interesting topic and opinions!

My opinion is this.

So long as animals that are kept as pets such as horses, dogs, cats etc are overbred to satisfy our desire to produce them there will be a surplice of them.

The surplice will need to be pts as there simply is not enough room for them all.

Sad as this is It is a fact.

Overpopulation leads to death for many pets.

I think all animals should be treated with respect and kindness from birth to death BUT there is simply too many animals being born every year and so some need to be pts to make room for all the babies born every year.

However, all animals cows, pigs, sheep, horses deserve good treatment while alive after that I think it is unimportant to the animal what happened to its body because it is dead.

Of course, any animal that was a pet of mine I would like to see buried and to rest in peace because it would make ME feel better.

However, if an animal has been raised and kept for slaughter I do not think it is cruel to use it for meat once it is dead.

I think grouping all horses as one does not really work. As someone mentioned some people keep pigs as pets and some horses have never been tamed or around people so is it crueler to kill this horse or this pig???

Humane treatment of live animals is key and IMO always worth fighting for but the rest is a grey area to me.

Some europeans who have a choice of horse or beef burger on their menu would find it a very strange argument that some 'animal lovers' are deeply offended by the horses meat being eaten but never give the dead cow a second thought.

I eat and enjoy meat so I would feel like a hypocrite being opposed to slaughtering animals for meat consumption, that does not mean that I think it would ever be acceptable for any of my pet horses to ever be turned into burgers because it would make ME uncomfortable, they would be none the wiser because they would be dead but I would.

 

[minicount]

Tagalong has made some great point and included factual information but as always facts just don't cut it with some people.

Everyone likes to portray the "slaughter house" as run by cold, callous people with money sucking vacuums for hearts. Fine lets run with that. Do you know how much weight an animal will lose without food or water...for days? It is absolutely impractical to think that the horses stand for days while they drop pound after pound, excuse me, dollar after dollar.

Coco's website states how a bolt gun in the hands of a vet compared to that of factory worker differ. You bet it does! That is his job, don't you think if you did one thing (and yes in processing plants you have ONE job) that you'd be good at it? Not only is a non brain dead horse (all animals are processed the same way I don't here you bellering for the cows) a huge safety risk for all those around it, it also holds up "processing" which cost the plant money. I would bet that less than one out of a hundred kills go anything but like clockwork, your vet can not even give you better odds.

I'll stop there as you can talk to a wall all you want and it does not educate the wall and just makes a person tired trying.