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shalakominiatureshowhorses

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I have been having lots of behavior issues with Bentley lately....well after the show, he got sore in his hooves, and i was told to not work him for a while. I worked my other horses for the last month or so. He hasnt been worked in over a month because he has such sensitive feet and i didnt want to make anything worse. He does run with the horses without a problem, but i just didnt want to do a long workout with him. Anyway, so about a week ago, he started dumping his water bucket every morning and night, and when ever he does that i know he hates being in the stall or wants to be turned out. I just refilled his water, fed them and went in the house. But when i went to go let the horses out, he broke out, opened one of the other horses stalls and ate the goat food (the goats eat the purina mini food, idk why but they like it) I got a halter and put Jazzy bacck in his stall and went to go get Bentley, he ran away and i had to chase him for 20 min. Bentley broke his stall lock and my dad had to fix it, so i just put Bentley in a stall with Devil. Something spooked him, so he jumped Devil's 3' gate!!! And cleared it from a stand still!!! Jump training for 3 years went to work for the wrong reason....So i had to chase him again and tie him up. the other day, he tried to bite the farrier, tugged on his lead rope when tied, bolted on me when lead around, pushed me when putting him back in the stall and ran from me when trying to catch him, and he always has a wild look in his eye. I know this is because of lack of work because this has happened before, but it has never been dangerous. I told my mom he needs to be worked again, but she is worried about his hooves. I think he should work so that he isnt restless all the time and has a "job" again. The farrier said that i could work and drive him on a regular basis, and if he gets lame he gets lame. Should i work him and risk him being lame, or should i find a different way to correct his behavior?

Bailey and Bentley.
 
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JMS Miniatures

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Sounds like he is bored and has a lack of respect. I would certainly put him to work. Doesn't have to be strenuous work, just work him in the round pen, back him up, do some pivots, do some lounging for like 10-20 min. every day for 1 to 2 weeks and he should be fine, just make sure he respects you and by doing that is moving his feet. If he can run away from you and be fine then he can be fine just doing that. If he has enough energy to do the wrong thing then he has enough energy to do the right thing.
 

rubyviewminis

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Question, who told you not to work him because he was sore? What caused the soreness? Jamie is right, and if he can be a brat, he can also be a good boy by work. Work him in soft sand, grass, use boots or any number of things if you are worried about his hooves. He shouldn't be tender unless there was a direct diagnosed cause.

Horse feed has copper in it which is highly toxic to goats and sheep. And if he got into the goat feed then that might be one reason his hooves hurt. Just when you think you have everybody and eveything safe and secure they surprise you! Especially minis and goats lol. I recently watched my 30.50 filly size up the electric wire across the gates, then somehow when I wasn't looking she managed to scoot under it and through without getting zapped. Darn thing is always zapping the crap out of one of us somewhere on the property.
 

Helicopter

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I agree with the others he needs work. Also what are you feeding him? Maybe he is all hyped up on extra good tucker. Just a thought.
 

shalakominiatureshowhorses

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I only feed him 2 cups of Purina Miniature Horse and Pony Feed with a handful of alfalfa twice a day. And also, the Goats eat the Horse food because they dont like goat food, they are very spoiled by my mom. And they are fine, they have been eating this for a year. I worked him today and he is doing better! He isnt acting up anymore, he tries, but he is corrected
When ever he gets a trim he gets sore for a couple of days, but because of the hard packed dirt at the show and going with out turpentine put on, he just got really sore and appeared to be lame to the judges, but the steward saved us from being DQed by telling them the story. But he was fine the next day, of course. Thanks for all of the replys!!!
 
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Lazy D Miniatures

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At the recent horse show in Guthrie the vet was instructing us to NOT feed the Minis ANY grain that they can survive fine with their weight on good hay alone, and that the alfalfa was too rich for them, so you might cut that down until you can get him into controll also, try tying him to a solid object like a tree to learn patience, make sure he ca't hurt himself in this position, nothing to poke his eyes, and such, and my horse trainer tells me that all minis need a job, so keep him busy with one and on a regular schedule, can't get lazy with him, work him! Good luck, be the boss!
 

disneyhorse

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I would also caution against feeding the goats anything made for horses because it could be toxic.

I would also have a veterinarian look at your horse. A vet can tell you exactly what is wrong and also tell you exactly how much and what type of work your horse can and should be doing.

Otherwise you are risking injury to your horse and yourself.
 

Charlotte

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"At the recent horse show in Guthrie the vet was instructing us to NOT feed the Minis ANY grain that they can survive fine with their weight on good hay alone, and that the alfalfa was too rich for them,"

Lazy D Minis, I very strongly disagree with this vet's comments. Unfortunately I was not at that portion of the OMHCI clinic or I would have asked some questions regarding this feeding advice.

It sounds as if this advice was directed at the mature miniature who is not in any exercise program and not breeding. young/growing miniatures need way more than just some grass hay for proper development and so do horses in training and breeding horses.

We have been breeding, training, showing miniatures for 20 years. A major part of their diet is alfalfa. We are careful with grain feeding as it can predispose any horse to ulcers, but the show horses do get a little grain product (no corn).

A good diet isn't going to cause a horse to misbehave, but boredom or lack of proper training will. It sounds as if Bently is bored and needs exercise....free exercise in a big area would probably help.
 

JMS Miniatures

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I agree with what the vet said in a way. It's true that hay is very important to the horse's diet and that the hay should not be cut if anything cut out your grain. Most of mine are on a all hay diet and do just fine. It really depends on the horse when it comes to alfalfa. Your not going to be giving your obese horse alfalfa instead just a grass hay. But alfalfa can be good for those that need that extra calories or energy especially for breeding or training horses like Charlotte said. Also alfalfa has been known to help soothe the stomach so it helps when it comes to the prevention of ulcers. Even the grain I feed has a lil alfalfa meal in it.
 

Marsha Cassada

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Sounds like your first concern is finding out why he is lame. I don't think working on hard ground for a while at a show would do that. I drive mine for 2 miles and more on pavement/gravel and it does not make them lame. Are his hooves hot to the touch? If so, that could indicate laminitis. If it is laminitis (which unfortunately many vets and farriers do not seem to know about), then he should have NO pelleted food or treats, unless you can find something that has no sugar in it.

If his feet are cool and he is fiesty now, you could take time to do some ground work for brainwork. Take your whip to cue him out of your space while you are working. Pretend that he weighs 1100 pounds and what you would expect from him. You would probably not allow him to shove, push, or jerk. If he jerks back while you are leading, go after him and make him keep backing until he is thinking that isn't so good after all.

I agree that tying him for an hour in a safe place is a good idea. I think that is a very good passive discipline for a brat. Horses must learn to stand tied! However, if he throws himself around and acts like an idiot, he could possibly injure muscles/tendons and in that case, tying would be a poor option.

If you have a round pen or largish lot, a good technique that has worked for me for a hrose that is hard to catch is turn him loose and walk up to him. When he moves away, swish your lead rope at him and drive him off. Every time you approach and he moves away even one step, swish and drive. It shouldn't take very long for him to stand for you to approach.

I'm not sure where the anti-alfalfa propaganda is coming from. No one has ever convinced me that alfalfa is a bad food for horses. Mine get a dustpan sized serving every day. The stemmier it is the better they like it.

Is he a stallion???
 

rabbitsfizz

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My small herd manages on grass and hay most of the time, up till Christmas anyway. Then they get feed as well. You could survive on potatoes, believe me, but you would not be fit or particularly healthy, but you could survive more than adequately on them and many , many people have done so!

The show horses get fed, and they get worked too, so they need the feed and the Vet that gave that advice should try training for a marathon whilst eating only potatoes!

As for discipline- you cannot discipline high jinks you have to get rid of the fizz first so the horse can concentrate on what you are telling it, and in order to do this it needs to be turned out in a round pen and allowed to run, then gently encouraged to continue to do so, once it has run itself out, just a few turns, but to your orders, not the horses wishes.

The feet are another whole problem on their own. The work you did would not result, on it's own, in a sore horse. Every time I trim Carlos I can only take a tiny, tiny bit off as his soles are very tender and sensitive (aah, poor petal!) I forgot this summer and trimmed him as per all my others and he was lame as a cat for a couple of days- I even gave him a little banamine I felt so sorry for him as the mares were all curled up laughing and he still had two to breed!

You need to talk to your farrier, forcefully but respectfully as s/he is the professional here, about customising the trim on this horse to prevent it going lame!
 

MiLo Minis

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1) You can't make blanket statements like "no Minis need grain" and "alfalfa is bad for horses". Every horse is an individual and every horse has changing needs over his lifetime according to age, sex and amount of work. Our job is to tailor each horses diet to suit their individual needs and requirements to keep them fit and healthy. It is NOT to ADHERE to blanket statements that could very well kill our horse. We need to take visual and manual assessments of each of our horses individual condition on a regular basis and feed accordingly.

2) No horse should be constantly/consistantly lame after being trimmed without treating the underlying cause. It could be simply a matter of finding yourself a new farrier. If your farrier is aware that the horse is consistantly sore after every trim and hasn't given you any advice/suggestions that would be a good route to try first. I hope you have consulted'a veterinarian regarding his condition. It is rare that a complete lack of exercise and constant stall rest is good for a horses'feet. They need exercise to keep the blood flowing well to help improve their condition. I wouldn't advocate roundpenning without knowing where the problem originates - it could be his diet, his exercise regime, poor trimming, a medical condition, etc but daily hand walking after consultation with a vet would likely be beneficial.

Horses feet'are'made'to take a fair bit of punishment IF they are healthy and in good overall condition. Feet in poor condition affect the horses'overall condition including temperament and physical health as they play a huge role in a horse's circulatory system. It is extremely important that you first get this horse's hoof problem resolved before worrying about the rest of his difficulties which you may find magically disappear once his feet are fixed up!
 
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Shari

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I do know, Alfalfa can make some horse's "higher than a kite" ! Have one here.... I can't feed any Alfalfa to for that. Rather like a kid on a sugar high.

The other's just don't need it, they would gain too much weight.

Lori's right.... every horse is different in what they need for feed. One size does not fit all. ;O)

As for hooves... not all Farriers are created equal.
 
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HGFarm

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A couple of things jumped out at me from your post.... first and foremost is his health. WHY would this horse have sore feet? And for that long? There is no reason that a horse should be sore- unless there is a major problem. Perhaps he tried to bite the farrier because if his feet hurt, and he is having to balance on 3.....

If he is being confined, I can see why he broke out and why he is running away- he is sick of being locked up and wants some excercise. Also, are you still feeding him a 'show diet' while he is confined to a stall? Grain, supplements, etc... ??? If he is confined to stall rest, he does not need grain and other stuff to make him even more hyper than he is. He should be on a basic diet if he is not working hard right now. I think you would find though he wants to get out and play, he may have a little calmer temperment. Horses that are idle or only getting mild excercise should never be fed a 'working horse' diet.

I am also a strong supporter of alfalfa, been feeding it, as does most of the Southwest U.S. for 40 years without a problem. There are so many silly myths about feeding alfalfa....
 
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Shari

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When DH was Stationed in San Diego for 4 years, saw a lot of "Horse Pearls" there. Most of the horse's that got this, had to have surgery to get them out. . The Head of the Equine Hospital at the time, said the major reason for horse pearls in the area, was horse's being fed an all Alfalfa diet. He would go around to the various boarding stables and private barns, trying to educate folks.

So an all Alfalfa diet... can have its own issues.

Saying that... I was lucky, my Arab gelding didn't have any issues with the Alfalfa... and I worked him a lot, to burn off any excess energy.
 
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shalakominiatureshowhorses

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Its been a while since i even looked at this topic, and i never realized people were still posting!

Well, I saw some questions that i guess i didnt cover before, so here it goes...

We live in the middle of Texas, where the weather is dry, and even worse we live in the hill country, where there are more rocks and pebbles than you can count.

Bentley started to get "tipey-toey" when the pasture became a dirt lot and rocks were everywhere! This was in, 2010 I THINK? Summer 2010 he started to appear lame and not want to run. This was when we had our old farrier. She said that he was "lazy" and needed more work. We were new, and believed everything she said. so we worked him. She then made us mad about other things and we switched to our new and current farrier.

This farrier has trimmed Bentley since he was a foal, and knows him very well. He showed us these HUGE red bruises on either side of the the frog on all 4 hooves. This is what caused him to be sore. We think they were rock bruises, but in a very severe case. Our old farrier also left to much heel and not enough toe, so he was also unbalanced. She never showed us these bruises either. His hooves were also very dry and needed moisture. He reccomended Hooflex twice a day untill he became better.

We also had our friend, who is also our vet, come out and look at Bentley. He said there was too much pressure on the toe, so he told our farrier face-to-face to take the heel off and let the toe grow out, like "duck feet". We are now just starting to trim his toe back. So, his extreame sorness was caused by poor farrier work and our rocks in the pasture. The hooflex session went on for about a year. We still paint the bottom of his hooves with Turpentine everyday as a precaution.Whenever he gets trimmed, he is only sore for 2 days, its never constant. When i said sore, i mean he is "tipey-toey". Sorry if i used the wrong word in the original post. If it was a constant issue like in 2010 i would have our vet friend come and look at him again. He is fine now. The reason he tried to bite the farrier was because of his braty attitude. Not that he was in pain. Understand that he hasnt been in EXTREAME pain since 2010.

As for the questions about the misbehaving...

Some are saying it was because he was on "constant stall rest". He is only stalled at feeding time and at night. Other than that he is free to run if he wants with the other horses. He broke out of his stall that time because he wanted food! He ran away from me because he knew he had to be stalled for bedtime. He has all of the excersise he wants during the day.

The feed had nothing to do with his hyperness. He gets fed 2 cups of miniature horse feed and some alfalfa twice a day and hay at night. Feed has never been the issue. I understand it was the lack of strict excersise (like round penning) that caused Bentley to be a brat. I only stopped working him for a month because i was afraid the Incident of 2010 was coming back to haunt me. He was fine all along.

Please understand that Bentley is OK now, he is fine, healthy, his hooves are better than ever, and we just came back from a show, along with alot of ribbons from him. And the redness in his hooves finally went completly away in Janurary. We still monitor his hooves closly though. Sorry for any misunderstanding that i may have caused earlier, hopefully this post will help clear some things up. Thank you to all who posted, you made me realize to be more descriptive in my posts LOL.

Any questions? Just post them, ill try to answer them as best i can,

Bailey
 
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Jamie Hunt

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Question, who told you not to work him because he was sore? What caused the soreness? Jamie is right, and if he can be a brat, he can also be a good boy by work. Work him in soft sand, grass, use boots or any number of things if you are worried about his hooves. He shouldn't be tender unless there was a direct diagnosed cause.

Horse feed has copper in it which is highly toxic to goats and sheep. And if he got into the goat feed then that might be one reason his hooves hurt. Just when you think you have everybody and eveything safe and secure they surprise you! Especially minis and goats lol. I recently watched my 30.50 filly size up the electric wire across the gates, then somehow when I wasn't looking she managed to scoot under it and through without getting zapped. Darn thing is always zapping the crap out of one of us somewhere on the property.
Copper is toxic to sheep, but not to goats. I give my goats loose mineral with copper and also copper bolus them every six months.
 

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