Inform me: Horse Slaughter

[Leeana]

Okay, i couldnt help it, i had to read the posts and of course i must post my opnion agian.

tracerace Posted Today, 12:55 PM   QUOTE

I am so agianst horse slaughter that you just have no clue. Its sad that people beleive that its perfectly fine.

LoveCoco, you can be against it all day long, but until you start sharing a solution, all you are is angry. It isn't "perfectly fine" to slaughter any animal in my book

Okay well here is my solution

I would love nothing more but to see all the slaughterhouses torn down. Build a nice pasture w/ a pond and make retirment homes for them 'poor horses' that need a way out. They can at least know someone cares and have a good home untill they die w/ a huge barn for them to run into at night. There could be soooo many of those in the united states, i mean there is so much free land. Each state should have one and all non wanted horses from that state could bring the horses there or sell them. And ppl looking for a horse could buy them there if they wanted one. Its a way better solution then 'pop ..your dead'.

I know about 75% of the time, the horses are already braid dead or whatever. But there still is that 25% that isnt. I really think that horse slaughter is evil. I have read many times where reporters have went in the truck w/ the people who drive the horse trucks and found horse legs, hooves, tails ext laying in about 1 foot of horse manure and urine.

That is what i would love to happen, and will do my best to see happen.

 

[shminifancier]

I would love nothing more but to see all the slaughterhouses torn down. Build a nice pasture w/ a pond and make retirement homes for them 'poor horses' that need a way out

Oh my oh my oh my

and just who is going to handle all these horses... Feed manage,,, FUND it,,,My oh my.

Right from the pages of any and all PETA web sites...

yuppers lets have no horses killed at all oh my I have to quit typing I can't see my keyboard anymore

 

[justaboutgeese]

Okay, i couldnt help it, i had to read the posts and of course i must post my opnion agian.

tracerace Posted Today, 12:55 PM   QUOTE

I am so agianst horse slaughter that you just have no clue. Its sad that people beleive that its perfectly fine.

LoveCoco, you can be against it all day long, but until you start sharing a solution, all you are is angry. It isn't "perfectly fine" to slaughter any animal in my book

Okay well here is my solution

I would love nothing more but to see all the slaughterhouses torn down. Build a nice pasture w/ a pond and make retirment homes for them 'poor horses' that need a way out. They can at least know someone cares and have a good home untill they die w/ a huge barn for them to run into at night. There could be soooo many of those in the united states, i mean there is so much free land. Each state should have one and all non wanted horses from that state could bring the horses there or sell them. And ppl looking for a horse could buy them there if they wanted one. Its a way better solution then 'pop ..your dead'.

I know about 75% of the time, the horses are already braid dead or whatever. But there still is that 25% that isnt. I really think that horse slaughter is evil. I have read many times where reporters have went in the truck w/ the people who drive the horse trucks and found horse legs, hooves, tails ext laying in about 1 foot of horse manure and urine.

That is what i would love to happen, and will do my best to see happen.

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Its not 75% that are brain dead it is 100%, remember its a man with a knife who is going to cut the throat. He cannot cut a horse thats not totally stunned, FACT. Now lets just build the Utopia of a pasture with a barn and a pond for them all to retire. Who is going to finance it ? You ?? Remember it cost as much , no make that more to care for sick, ill and aging horses than it does a sound serviceable horse. If these people just send their horse to auction to get rid of them do you think they would be willing to pay for lifetime care for them ??? The naivety of youth is a beautiful thing and should be cherished. But as youth turns into maturity the real world tends to get in the way. If you ever happen to get a chance go and visit a slaughter house. I offered in an earlier post to arrange a tour of one if you are in fact interested is seeing the side that PETA will not show.

 

[minicount]

I would love nothing more but to see all the slaughterhouses torn down.  Build a nice pasture w/ a pond and make retirment homes for them 'poor horses' that need a way out.  They can at least know someone cares and have a good home untill they die w/ a huge barn for them to run into at night.  There could be soooo many of those in the united states, i mean there is so much free land.  Each state should have one and all non wanted horses from that state could bring the horses there or sell them.  And ppl looking for a horse could buy them there if they wanted one.  Its a way better solution then 'pop ..your dead'.

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Ok sweetie I'm not trying to pick on you as I was you when I was your age but the truth is it is not anywhere near that simple.

50,000 horses is a lot of horses and that's per year. I don't know where you are finding all this "free land". Around here we are at the "cheap end" of the spectrum and it cost $1,200 and acre and you need a lot of acres even to dry lot 1,000 head of horses (breaking them up per state). Let's see, low balling feed cost let's say $700 to run a horse for a year (yep LOW BALL). Seeing's how the majority of horse that go to the plants are either old (specialty diets and medication) un-sound (vet cost and some more "cheap" medication) and unbroken (have you priced trainers?) these horses are getting extremely expensive. Now of course there is routine stuff like farrier and worming (let's not even start on vaccinations), plus anytime you get a lot of animals together your incidence of sickness goes up.

Price building a barn, staffing such a facility, insurance, fencing. I would guess a million at EACH facility would barely cover it. Hmmm, how much do you think that one would have to charge to "adopt" a horse from such a place, just to break even.

 

[tagalong]

I have read many times where reporters have went in the truck w/ the people who drive the horse trucks and found horse legs, hooves, tails ext laying in about 1 foot of horse manure and urine.

Now... here is where the problems come in, Coco. This has not happened many times. Not even PETA would make a claim like that. It is very important that isolated incidents that may have happened not be built up into everyday occurrences...

The retirement idea is good... and there are retirement farms for some Thoroughbreds etc. but who pays for it?? It would not be feasible on the scale that would be needed, I am afraid. The fencing for 65,000 horses a year. The maintenance. The feed. The gelding - no stallions allowed would only be common sense. The rest of the vet care. The cleaning if there was a "huge barn"... What happens to the dead? The dying?

Riding horses would have to be exercised, worked a bit and maintained if there were people coming to try them out. More $$$$... and liability issues...

Unfortunately... reality bites.

But good for you for trying to come up with solutions...

Simply tearing down all the slaughterhouses is not a great idea. If there were actually MORE of them that were closely supervised - instead of a few big ones and assorted small joints that process whatever they can get... it would eliminate the hauling horrors and most of those problems.

IMHO we need to start at the SUPPLY end and not at the end of the line. Stallions would need to be evaluated as they are in many breeds in Europe. If the horse does not evaluate well... he must be a gelding. Mares get evaluated as well - and ranked in assorted stud books. A low rank means she should NOT be bred. Breeding to Joe Blow's ornery stud down the road would become unpopular and obsolete... well, I can dream that it would, anyway...

Less indiscriminate breeding.... less throw away horses....

 

[shminifancier]

For those that have not I truly would like to see everybody reading just what these 2 bills contain and just how the wording is..

And in the reading of those. They Both have to be signed into law OR the Funding one will be only for One year, and will be reinstated for funding again in 2007. So both really have to be signed or the one just won't do much of anything and will only run a year...And it is that Other one the 503 that is worded very badly ...

 

[tracerace]

Okay well here is my solution

I would love nothing more but to see all the slaughterhouses torn down. Build a nice pasture w/ a pond and make retirment homes for them 'poor horses' that need a way out.

Honestly, you are describing my place! We have a lake and horses that will die here - but with my funds, I can't personally support any more than I already have (2 rescues plus 4 boarders to help me support them). Where will this money come from to build these horsetopias? Take it from what program? There are places like this in existance (See: The Exceller Fund), but they run on public donations and are often pressed to the verge of closing as it is. There is only so much charity that the public can handle - thank heavens hurricaine Rita didn't do what Katrina did , as most Americans gave what they could. See what I mean? And these are ONE TIME disasters, not living breathing creatures that will need care for decades.

There could be soooo many of those in the united states, i mean there is so much free land.

I'm assuming you mean "open space" and you are well aware there is no such thing as "free land" in the United States. Again, there may be open space, but it's all owned by someone. If that someone doesn't want to open a horse retirement community, who gets to give up their land for the project?

Each state should have one and all non wanted horses from that state could bring the horses there or sell them. And ppl looking for a horse could buy them there if they wanted one. Its a way better solution then 'pop ..your dead'.

I challenge you to write your governers about this. Then, I challenge you to get your tax paying neigbors (the non-horsey ones) to support such an idea. It's ideal, but there is no way that in this country, where horse slaughter happens because it's ignored, will ever PAY to keep horses healthy and happy.

I know about 75% of the time, the horses are already braid dead or whatever. But there still is that 25% that isnt. I really think that horse slaughter is evil.

Where did this percentage come from? Who did this study? Where is the information on this study that determined this ratio?

I have read many times where reporters have went in the truck w/ the people who drive the horse trucks and found horse legs, hooves, tails ext laying in about 1 foot of horse manure and urine.

That is horrifying, and I hope that wherever this happened, the footage was enough to punish the people involved.

That is what i would love to happen, and will do my best to see happen.

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Good luck! Your heart is in the right place. Save as many horses as you can afford...than add some more to this topic. If your family is involved in the racing industry, than shame on you for talking like this. I am presently going broke saving an OTTB because of what that industry did to him. THAT industry is as close to the "evil" you speak of as anything.

I'm not attacking you, but challenging the logic and your ideal. We need to FIRST make sure that while horse slaughter exists, it is happening under the most humane and respectful conditions possible. That is the real problem.

BTW, I had to euthanize my mare a few years ago, and the doc gave her an injection and it didn't put her to sleep completely. She had to send her tech back to the office and get another shot to complete the shut down of electrical impulses (I guess). The horse was brain dead...but twitching. Am I cruel? Am I evil? I sat there and cried as though my heart was bleeding and wished that my husband could have been there with a pistol to make it more humane and less painful for ME. Only later did it occur to me that SHE wasn't there. I was suffering because of that, but she wasn't. She was gone.

As someone else said, dead is dead, no matter how they get there. It's the "getting there " that totally sucks when it comes to slaughter.

 

[runamuk]

OK here is the retirement home for horses so none will be slaughtered...lets see based on the numbers you posted not even going to look but in the realm of 50,000 a year........reccomended minimum guidlines are 1 horse per acre so lets do the math....the first year 50,000 acres would be needed ...now if there are another 50,000 each consecutive year that number is going to get huge fast and even if some die I bet with care the majority of these horses will live out average lives of 20 to 25.......and since many of these horses are young that is going to be a long time........now if you can get hay as cheap as here say 85 a ton for alfalfa now I happen to have some idea how much hay 30 horses on 30 acres will go through per month in the winter about 333 lbs per horse so using this figure times the number of horses...that first year you are looking at roughly 8333 tons of hay per month...at my cheap cost .....708,326 per month for hay plus the cost of 50,000 acres .........so I ask coco are you ready to fund this?

Due to the fact that I never want my horses to go to slaughter I don't breed I have produced one foal ever if it stays here forever great if it finds a perfect home great but none of my horses will go to a salebarn.....

and out of curiosity coco didn't you say something about your family being in the racing industry...and don't you buy and sell at the local sale? then you are participating in this problem as well......looking in the mirror is often very difficult but if you are not part of a solution you are part of a problem......the current bill as written is not a solution it is hype based and destined to cause far more problems than it solves.....

 

[fourhorses]

Maybe, just maybe.......this thread will have some people thinking twice about what they breed, how MANY they breed and the overall well-being of any animal they put on the ground from here on. Maybe your next horse/dog/cat will come from a rescue or sanctuary. Do people really need to have a herd of 300 horses. Or 80? Why? Do each get individualized care in order to be a good equine citizen? Do each get a daily once-over? Worming? Vaccinations? Fecal samples? And what about socialization.

You can bash PETA, the Horse Protection Network, savethehorses.org but it doesn't change the FACTS. This is a problem that humans created and it's up to humans to find a solution that doesn't benefit humans........but the animals.

You don't like the laws.......friggin' change them. That's what we're trying to do. If you want to make a difference........stop breeding. Ya want your kid to experience the miracle of birth? Make darn sure they see the horror of a death for an animal not as lucky as yours. How many of you know where all the horses/dogs/cats you bred are? You know where your kids are.....

You want to stop backyard abuse........TURN THEM IN.

The buck should stop with each and every one of us. It's not about animal activism.........it's about animal welfare.

While some of the posters may be young I am sooooooo grateful to them.

They are the future. They are the ones who won't allow happen what we oldies have let happen.

 

[runamuk]

You don't like the laws.......friggin' change them. That's what we're trying to do. If you want to make a difference........stop breeding. Ya want your kid to experience the miracle of birth? Make darn sure they see the horror of a death for an animal not as lucky as yours. How many of you know where all the horses/dogs/cats you bred are? You know where your kids are.....

I agree change the laws but change them to benefit the animals not animal activists.......the animal ID legislation is actually one step in the right direction yet people are having fits because the governement will know where those animals came from and "horrors" might know how many animals you have........

I don't breed anything I wont eat........

My kids help with lambing and they know darn well how meat gets to the table they also know about the need to end suffering in an animal and they have butchered birds and cleaned fish they also appreciate and have respect for the animals in nature and in their care......

I personally have never produced a single litter of puppies or kittens...as a child I did get to witness a litter produced by a neighbor being shot .......yep I know right where my kids are one is watching cartoons eating lunch and the other is off hunting ducks with his dad and his dog

 

[tracerace]

Nad for the record, I've never bred an animal or sold an animal in my life. I've buried 3 horses though, and many, many pets. We've had stray cats show up with kittens and I have them spayed and nuetered and fend for them with food and vaccinations. But I've also had to shoot a rabid cat and we process our own meat like runamuk mentioned her family does (I won't buy facory meat!).

 

[Leeana]

No, when i brought up the pasture idea i dont mean "make sure every horse has 2 scoops of feed, a nice little bed and 2 blocks of hay every night and a kiss goodnight". That is not where i was coming from. Just pasture them. As much as im sure you guys think that im a niave teen, i have much more sense then most adults that i know. I really dont like being descriminated agianst because i am a young person. Every time i try to post something adult like, i get practically prosicuted because im 17!.

When i described a nice big pasture for horses w/ a pond i ment it to be a nice natural inviroment where they can live there life on pasture, have colts, breed, eat (grass) drink water (pond) and live like the wild mustang's in the west. I mean there is allot of land out west. Die of Natural causes and a bullet to the head isnt natural. I do understand that sometimes, you cant help it. If a horse is in so much pain that it wishes it was dead, shoot it in the head then. Dont put it in a dirty trailer where it will get stomped to death and then a blow to head.

I would even settle for horse slaughter if i knew for sure that they were transported in a healthy fassion, fed, calmed down, not hit, beaten ext. If there ending there life to end there pain, then why cause just more. I mean it takes alllot of force for a leg to come off ..?

 

[shminifancier]

This is direct from the bill in question See what you all think it scares me to death (no Pun intended)

d) Authority to Detain- Section 6(e) of the Horse Protection Act (15 U.S.C. 1825(e)) is amended-- and these are just a few of the amendments...Wow what a wide area that PETA and or other animal rights activists can act on now..Not good in my book at all......And any one can be used separately without going to a slaughter house because of ONE added word in there OR so anything that comes before that OR can be and will be used to convict and or seize any and all animals on...

`(8) the movement, showing, exhibition, or sale of sore horses in intrastate commerce, and the shipping, transporting, moving, delivering, receiving, possessing, purchasing, selling, or donation in intrastate commerce of horses and other equines to be slaughtered for human consumption, adversely affect and burden interstate and foreign commerce;'.

`(B) any horse or other equine which the Secretary has probable cause to believe is being shipped, transported, moved, delivered, received, possessed, purchased, sold, or donated in violation of section 5(8).'.

Those things which I have hi lighted scares the be jeepers out of me..Transporting to a Vet for One thing... Having a horse maybe getting hurt at a horse show taking him to the vet and or Home for treatment.. That just is very poorly written law IMO.. I did not leave anything out that is right off the written bill....it just makes me shiver and it should anybody else that reads this without just looking at one side....Oh my...

Added to say I Forgot to say this is the bill HR 503

 

[justaboutgeese]

No, when i brought up the pasture idea i dont mean "make sure every horse has 2 scoops of feed, a nice little bed and 2 blocks of hay every night and a kiss goodnight".  That is not where i was coming from.  Just pasture them.  As much as im sure you guys think that im a niave teen, i have much more sense then most adults that i know.  I really dont like being descriminated agianst because i am a young person.  Every time i try to post something adult like, i get practically prosicuted because im 17!.
When i described a nice big pasture for horses w/ a pond i ment it to be a nice natural inviroment where they can live there life on pasture, have colts, breed, eat (grass) drink water (pond) and live like the wild mustang's in the west.  I mean there is allot of land out west.  Die of Natural causes and a bullet to the head isnt natural.  I do understand that sometimes, you cant help it.  If a horse is in so much pain that it wishes it was dead, shoot it in the head then.  Dont put it in a dirty trailer where it will get stomped to death and then a blow to head.

I would even settle for horse slaughter if i knew for sure that they were transported in a healthy fassion, fed, calmed down, not hit, beaten ext.  If there ending there life to end there pain, then why cause just more.  I mean it takes alllot of force for a leg to come off ..?

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Now just exactly where "Out West " is this vacant land for Utopia ? Last I heard they were rounding up wild horses because the grasslands and government pasture is already being over grazed. And once again who is going to foot the bill for the expenses or are we just going to turn them out to starve ??? One more question where did you witness this leg coming off ?

 

[fourhorses]

[Now just exactly where "Out West " is this vacant land for Utopia ? Last I heard they were rounding up wild horses because the grasslands and government pasture is already being over grazed.  And once again who is going to foot the bill for the expenses or are we just going to turn them out to starve ???  One more question where did you witness this leg coming off ?

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Well, "Out West" is really fighting for slaughter because horses compete for grazing rights with cattle on US owned land. The land is overgrazed because of cattle not horses. Horses were there looooonnnnnngggggg before the millions of head of cattle.

As for who would foot the bill...........hmmmm, how about the ones who breed them.

I mean come on, if there wasn't such a surplus this would be a moot point.

Animal ID is a great idea. Just one more way to force people to take responsibility.

Seems so many can't do it on their own.

 

[Voodoo]

LoveCoco, I don't think everyone picks on you because you are young. In fact I don't think everyone picks on you at all. Now I stood behind you on the subject of your mom riding your horse, but I have to disagree here.

Die of Natural causes and a bullet to the head isnt natural

. Of course a bullet to the head isn't natural, but have you ever seen a horse die that was running out in the wild like you are talking? One that is old, or skinny because the grass has been bad this year. When they are so skinny they can't travel to food and water? When they have wolves tearing them apart while they are still alive, but unable to run or defend themselves? Or one that just plain starves to death? When wild horses die a "natural" death it really isn't pretty, it isn't like old people who just die in their sleep. They usually starve to death, miserable for weeks before dying. I've even seen a wild horse that had tumors (or some such thing) he was to weak to move, bleeding from his nose and mouth, head hanging, shaking in pain. I didn't dare put him out of his misery because you can go to jail for that, but I did call the BLM and they came and put him out of his misery. I don't always agree with the way slaughter houses handle and transport their horses, but I still think it is better than suffering for weeks. I live out west and there really isn't that much extra land out here. The cattlemen (who provide food for the US) are already fighting the wild horses for the land and grass their cattle need. Adding this many more horses would really put a damper on the # of cattle that are raised for food. I love horses, but I just can't imagine what would happen to the US if horses couldn't be sold to slaughter. I know alot of good horses go to slaughter, and may the truth be known I've saved alot of them. I've been called bad names because I'm a "trader", but I see nothing wrong with buying a few horses from the killer, training them and selling at a profit. However, the point I'm trying to make is that we can only do so much. We can't save the world, but we can always do our small part in helping these horses.

 

[runamuk]

[Now just exactly where "Out West " is this vacant land for Utopia ? Last I heard they were rounding up wild horses because the grasslands and government pasture is already being over grazed.  And once again who is going to foot the bill for the expenses or are we just going to turn them out to starve ???  One more question where did you witness this leg coming off ?

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Well, "Out West" is really fighting for slaughter because horses compete for grazing rights with cattle on US owned land. The land is overgrazed because of cattle not horses. Horses were there looooonnnnnngggggg before the millions of head of cattle.

As for who would foot the bill...........hmmmm, how about the ones who breed them.

I mean come on, if there wasn't such a surplus this would be a moot point.

Animal ID is a great idea. Just one more way to force people to take responsibility.

Seems so many can't do it on their own.

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Well I live out west and actually support a bit less grazing and grazing rights by cattle barons.......as for the people over breeding footing the bill....

like that would ever happen...puleez personal responsibility appears to have disappeared in this country

sorry I have become quite cynical in my old age

 

[Leeana]

basic as i can put this ..if i was a horse that was next in line at a slaughterhouse, i would take the pasture over the gun.

I know you all would to

No where did i witness the leg coming off. It is from an article in a newpaper i found on the internet.

 

[shminifancier]

LoveCoco:: Maybe this will explain my feelings a little better..Now I can't speak for others but, I think where lots of people are thinking the wrong way, when we say pro slaughter...I am really not so much for slaughter as I am against the way the bill is written....It IMO is written badly and can be used against anybody at any time doing anything with there animals. Badly written laws are just plain Bad laws with far reaching consequences..

 

[runamuk]

basic as i can put this ..if i was a horse that was next in line at a slaughterhouse, i would take the pasture over the gun.
  I know you all would to

No where did i witness the leg coming off.  It is from an article in a newpaper i found on the internet.

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as to the first part...I can only answer as my sons would say "well DUH" and for the second part ...you cannot believe everything you read