Inform me: Horse Slaughter

[Leeana]

Okay VooDoo for some reason always get me in the heart and Marty as well. I guess looking at it from a viewpoint of another slaughtering is a nessesary. I just get so angry and worked up bc i feel so bad for these horses. I mean just reading an article has me in tears. I guess i can somewhat join your guys side of the fence here, but i do wish i could do something about how they are transported and treated. I would much rather have them all given a shot then hit in the head.

I guess Slaughter is nessesary ...but the treatment these poor creature's go through he horriable. I dont think i have ever looked a picture of a horse in a slaughter line and not cried or read a post on this thread and not cried or an article on the net. Its such a depressing topic, but i guess i can see both sides here. I know Horse Slaughter must go on, but must it go on the way it is?

 

[Leeana]

btw: I am still very angry at the people who hang a horse up by his legs while still concious! I will hate them people forever bc i know most of them have done it at least once. And i in no way regret that and can only hope and pray for the sickhead that has done it and has it in him to do that to a alive creature.

 

[tagalong]

btw: I am still very angry at the people who hang a horse up by his legs while still concious! I will hate them people forever bc i know most of them have done it at least once. And i in no way regret that and can only hope and pray for the sickhead that has done it and has it in him to do that to a alive creature.

No - you DON'T know that "most of them have done it at least once". Facts - NOT sensationalism. Did you watch the vid on the link you provided?? And for the umpteenth time.... *sigh* .... they do NOT do that to a LIVE creature. As some of us have explained over and over again. Please take the time to re-read many of the well-written posts in this thread... k?

When i described a nice big pasture for horses w/ a pond i ment it to be a nice natural inviroment where they can live there life on pasture, have colts, breed, eat (grass) drink water (pond) and live like the wild mustang's in the west.

Bolding mine. And therein lies the problem.... that would just get bigger... and bigger...

 

[Voodoo]

basic as i can put this ..if i was a horse that was next in line at a slaughterhouse, i would take the pasture over the gun.
  I know you all would to

No where did i witness the leg coming off.  It is from an article in a newpaper i found on the internet.

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Are you sure? What if you were facing several weeks of misery starving to death? What if you were facing one of those families who wouldn't feed you, give you water? Would beat you just because they had a bad day at work, or because you didn't understand what they were asking of you? Your feet were so long that it hurt you to stand? You had injuries, that no one was taking care of? I'm not saying that slaughter is the answer to everything and yes, I understand that alot of good horses are killed, but sometimes death is better than the life some of these horses have lived. I'd love to be able to see that every horse was well taken care of and lived a long happy life. Come on, wake up, it isn't going to happen. Do what you can do to help, but don't try to save the world, you'll ruin your own life and not solve the initial problem.

 

[shminifancier]

I am still very angry at the people who hang a horse up by his legs while still conscious

Please do not keep that one incident in your mind...That was one in a million and was set up by animal rights groups That does not happen but one in a 1,000 and that is even better odds then your vet can give you when euthanizing a horse...They are Brain Dead when hung up side down Brain dead is dead Please keep that in prospective.....USDA Inspected slaughter (Processing) just don't do it that way ..A 1200 pound horse hung upside down while still being alive would thrush and fling its front legs and putting all the workers in harms way...That is just not done that way they are Dead period! Please keep this in mind.

 

[Leeana]

Im not trying to save the world by any means at all!.

I understand HorseSlaughter i guess ...i just wish the conditions where better. Im sorry but i can never forgive someone for doing something like that, even if it is one out of a billion times! I beleive the needle would be so much better then getting popped in the head, but i guess thats not up to me.

Im not going to waist my time being mad about something i cant change ..i'm making the choice i try to keep Horse Slaughter thoughts out of my head. Its not worth the high blood pressure

 

[Voodoo]

Well, I don't usually make such forceful points, so yeah, slaughter hits me where it hurts too. I once felt your exact feelings LoveCoco, maybe that's why I am trying so hard to show you the other side now. Please understand that the pictures you see on the internet are NOT what usually happens. A prime example, do a search for animal abuse in rodeo (I'll use that since I'm familiar with it). You will see some horrific pictures. Where the websites get these pictures is beyond me. I have been in rodeo for over 10 years, my dad has been in it for around 30. I have seen thousands of rodeos and I can honestly say that most of the pictures that they are showing are being portrayed incorrectly, the instances of injured animals, most of the injuries they speak of are not from abuse, but they are sure to tell you that they are. If I hadn't seen so many rodeos and know exactly how most of the animals are treated, and how very few actually get hurt, or are abused, I would hate rodeo. These people on the web know how to find the one or two isolated cases of something terrible happening and show them to you over and over so it hits you in the heart. If they'd take pictures of every horse that was shipped to slaughter you would see a VERY different picture. These web sites are able to paint the picture any way they want and that of course is to show you the horrible so that you can't help, but cry and want to help shut the slaughterhouses/rodeo/even horse racing/ and many other things down.

 

[tagalong]

I beleive the needle would be so much better then getting popped in the head, but i guess thats not up to me.

Okay - let's get graphic. I have been present when many horses have been euthanized... and if you think it is always pretty and the sweet pony just shuts its eyes and goes to sleep - well, that is not always the case. I saw a mare throw herself over backwards as she started to go down - she hit her head on the ground hard - and that caused her to go into violent convulsions... it was a major struggle to get the rest of the drugs into her...

Another old gelding went into seizures... and it took approx. 5 times the normal dose to ease his terror and his pain....

No where did i witness the leg coming off.  It is from an article in a newpaper i found on the internet.

Uh huh. So one regrettable incident (which I am not in any way condoning) - probably as a result of one of those darn cattleliners having a wreck... and NOT "many times where reporters have went in the truck w/ the people who drive the horse trucks and found horse legs, hooves, tails ext laying in about 1 foot of horse manure and urine." as you said earlier. I know it is hard - but you have to lead with your HEAD and not your HEART at times... ((HUG))

And shminifancier... the wording in those bills is... well... there are gaps you could drive a loaded horse trailer through... and the potential for interpretations that could go very wrong.... very wrong indeed...

As far as PETA goes... I question the thought processes involved at times. A group of PETA-ites near here snuck onto a mink farm one night... and released thousands of mink to "free" them. FREE them?? They did not know how to hunt. Those few that managed to grasp the concept annihilated local songbird nests and small animals.... but most of them were shredded by dogs... coyotes... cats... or squashed into a slimy mess on the road that ran past that fur farm. Any who escaped those assorted fates and found somewhere to hide starved to death... only a few hundred were rounded up - and most of them had gone back to their cages....

How nice that they did not want those mink to "suffer"....

I do not like fur coats - never have - but what kind of a ridiculous solution was that???

ETA:

These people on the web know how to find the one or two isolated cases of something terrible happening and show them to you over and over so it hits you in the heart.

Voodoo speaks words of wisdom.... people may mean well - but often the facts get lost in the anxiety and desire to help at any cost. Just as I explained earlier about the photo of the dead chestnut horse - that has been used over and over again to illustrate a number of "abuses"... depending on what subject the person who put that website together was concerned about.

 

[runamuk]

I beleive the needle would be so much better then getting popped in the head, but i guess thats not up to me.

Okay - let's get graphic. I have been present when many horses have been euthanized... and if you think it is always pretty and the sweet pony just shuts its eyes and goes to sleep - well, that is not always the case. I saw a mare throw herself over backwards as she started to go down - she hit her head on the ground hard - and that caused her to go into violent convulsions... it was a major struggle to get the rest of the drugs into her...

Another old gelding went into seizures... and it took approx. 5 times the normal dose to ease his terror and his pain....

No where did i witness the leg coming off.  It is from an article in a newpaper i found on the internet.

Uh huh. So one regrettable incident (which I am not in any way condoning) - probably as a result of one of those darn cattleliners having a wreck... and NOT "many times where reporters have went in the truck w/ the people who drive the horse trucks and found horse legs, hooves, tails ext laying in about 1 foot of horse manure and urine." as you said earlier. I know it is hard - but you have to lead with your HEAD and not your HEART at times... ((HUG))

And shminifancier... the wording in those bills is... well... there are gaps you could drive a loaded horse trailer through... and the potential for interpretations that could go very wrong.... very wrong indeed...

As far as PETA goes... I question the thought processes involved at times. A group of PETA-ites near here snuck onto a mink farm one night... and released thousands of mink to "free" them. FREE them?? They did not know how to hunt. Those few that managed to grasp the concept annihilated local songbird nests and small animals.... but most of them were shredded by dogs... coyotes... cats... or squashed into a slimy mess on the road that ran past that fur farm. Any who escaped those assorted fates and found somewhere to hide starved to death... only a few hundred were rounded up - and most of them had gone back to their cages....

How nice that they did not want those mink to "suffer"....

I do not like fur coats - never have - but what kind of a ridiculous solution was that???

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yep I too have witnessed a couple of horrific PTS it actually is usually more violent than most realize......if the horse is standing it is quite common for them to quite literally crash to the ground and then struggle .........we had the most pleasant end I have ever witnessed recently at my friends farm but that horse was so weak we were able to lay him down before the injection .....that in my experience is not the norm.......

There were several mink farms this happened to in eastern WA and even worse....the people setting the mink free had to SHOOT the pyranese dogs who were on duty...so in the end there were dead dogs dead mink in the highway starving mink in the woods ALL in the name of animal activism.....

I do not think any person on this board would choose to slaughter a single horse ever IF all horses recieved good homes and proper care..... sadly the almighty dollar rules our lives and when those animals cannot make money they must be disposed of without costing money........and preferably putting at least something in the pocket........

Over breeding is the number one problem .....control the breeding and you control the population ...control the population and there isn't a need for slaughter......

 

[k9mini2]

I live in the "wanna be a cowboy" capital of the world I think

Everybody who has a few acres has a horse no joke! And sad to say there are lots and lots of horses that are poorly cared for. The poor things would be better off dead.

We are also located very near a sale barn that has a "killer" market. I personally would love to see the killer market gone. But I honestly don't know where all these bad horses would end up. And yes there are some real bad horses out there. No one can handle them no one wants them some idot produced them because they wanted to have a foal that year... And none of them seem to have a clue about good dispositions

About 75 % of the horses I see going through the "killer" ring at this sale are horses in some form are undesirable. A very few are nice horses that have problems such as chronically lame, blind, ill, etc come through for killers. No weanlings or yearlings end up getting sold to killers and if a horse can ride it usually goes to a home.

Also a lot of the "ridable" horses going through the killer ring get bought by the "wanna be a cowboy" types and after being abused for a few weeks end up back at the sale after someone got hurt.

I guess I would have to say that if we can't get the general public to quit breeding dogs and cats, what make us thing we can get them to quit breeding horses?

I wish we could but until then the killer market is about the only destiny for some horses.

I would just as soon see these horses sent to a near by slaughter plant than travel hundreds of miles with poor care to be slaughtered. If this law is sucessful what is to stop people from getting them there anyway?? Who is going to patrol the borders to stop horses from being transported to Canada or Mexico?? Heck we can't keep illegal immigrants out let alone keep illegal horses in.

 

[tagalong]

Just bumping this thread for someone to get info from....

 

[justaboutgeese]

I have to add one more point regarding the mink that were released "to freedom". The ones that were recaptured (I believe in the Michigan incident it was about thirty percent had to be put down as well. The bloodlines were documented by cage numbers. Since they had no idea which animals were which and could not identify the pedigrees so they could breed for particular color etc the animals lost their value.

 

[~LadyBug~]

Just another 17 year old chiming in with my personal opinion

I do not believe that any of us on here want horses to be slaughtered. But the fact is, there is a major overpopulation, and who's fault is that?? OURS!! thats right, irresponsible breeders are causing the need to continue!

Horse slaughter is unfortunately nessecary. Of course I would like to see the animals treated with dignity and respect. but I really believe in most cases they are, and alot of people are reading into PETA's horror stories and formulating incorrect views! Comeon people....Check into PETA a little bit, then see if you believe anything that they say

I personally would not want to eat horse. Not because I think it is wrong, but because Horses are a particular species of livestock that I have become particularly emotionally attached to.

Horses that are raised and cared for like LIVESTOCK, are just that. They are LIVESTOCK. Just like cows and pigs.

Somebody else might have a pet cow, or pig like RunaMucks son. They do not want their PET to be slaughtered, but for the most part, they probobly are not part of some activist group against beef and pork!!!

LoveCoCo and others, Take some time to read through TagaLong's and Geese's posts. They make alot of since, and heck im only a naieve 17 year old!

I really understand where you are coming from being a young horse lover myself, and I know your intentions are good and sincere, but I think its time for a reality check. That perfect Utopia is not going to happen. There is not land, funds, or manpower available.

getting off my soapbox, and donning flame proof outfit

Ashley

edited for Sp

 

[Range]

I have to add my two cents to those who abhor the conditions of slaughter for horses. Ever think about the conditions for poultry (ever seen a chickens shoved in cages, stacked on trucks, headed for the plant?), cattle, and pork? As a "recovering" vegetarian, my issue was never that it was meat from an animal, but how that animal was treated. The next time you eat a hamburger, think about that animal's life and death. We love horses and wouldn't think to eat them, but the issue exists that all creatures need to be treated with dignity, whether we think of them as friends or meat.

Yes, it is a double edged sword...too many horses and too expensive to euthanize. It happens, we just need to make sure it happens in a humane manner.

 

[DunPainted]

The problem is easily solved:

1. Stop indiscriminate breeding....

2. Use a HRT (hormone replacement therapy) other than Premarin

3. Boycott auctions....go to "production sales" of reputable breeders

4. Unless the pairing of horses truly serves to the betterment of the breed, STOP!

These, and other options I'm too uneducated to provide, just might reduce the number of slaughtered animals.

 

[manyhorses]

ahhh the hot topic of the times! Where to start?? there is so much controversy over this issue, and much that's being said and passed along simply is misunderstood info, it astounds me! Although I do not agree with slaughter of horses for the most part, it will continue to be a part of the horse community for as long as there are surplus horses. That includes the people that professionally raise horses, and cull out the "bad", the backyard people that breed indiscriminately, and those that feel they have to squeeze that last dollar out of the "money makin machine", it ALSO includes those of us that do not live close to a rendering plant, and/or cannot bury our horses on our property, what to do with all these animals? Statics show that approx. 70,000 horses are slaughtered within the USA each year, and although as a horse community we MAY be able to absorb that amount for a year or two, we cannot do it indefinately. The Rescue operations that are now in place would love to take these horses in. But they cannot.. they DO NOT have the funds.

The recent law was developed to stop using tax payers money for USDA inspectors for horse meat. The two plants that are still operating in the USA for the slaughter of horses, are BOTH owned by foriegn entities. They buy the horses for Rock bottom prices, process them, send them overseas and recieve a small fortune for each pound of meat, as in some countries it is a delicacy. They can and WILL find and PAY for their own inpectors, the Only thing that cahnged is we as taxpayers will no longer foot the bill. It IS illegal to eat horse meat in most states. However, this is not just an old law it's darn near anchient (sp??) There is NO law prohibiting the slaughter of horses in the USA. California HAS passed a STATE law that makes it Illegal to sell, transport, or purchase a horse from THAT state for the intention of slaughter. Doesn't mean it doesn't still happen, it's just illegal now. (sigh) I'm with the rest of you, that if you make it illegal here, the borders to CA and Mexico are not that far away, and personally I would hate to see the inside of a mexican slaughter house...based on seeing some "other" lovely places down there.

So what are we to do?? My thoughts are this...go ahead scream and complain all ya want, I would be more then willing to make these changes myself.

1) Put a grading sytem in place much like they do in Germany, and in the warmbloods here... this would have to be done by the individual associations.

your horse scores low, he's/she's not worth as much therefore not as desirable in the market...to some extent this IS done by showing..but I'm talkin more about the three or four tests horses must score well on to be Eligible for breeding. Yeah I know REALLY put's a damper on those of us that would like to breed horses that WE think are REALLY nice, or for personal use...but hey, in the overall situation???

2) EVERY time you register a horse, show your horse, or do anything with your horse that is a recognized/organised event, or you make your living off of horses you MUST contribute a nominal amount...HEY I'm talking like a $2-3.00 contribution...think about the money that could be generated overall..then take that money and set up retirement/rescue facilities, AND more rendering plants...NOT to be confused with slaughter houses...these are different! I would take my horse to a rendering plant, but NOT a slaughter house... and I think (I may be mistaken here) that the meat COULD still be usable to overseas markets. The rescue/retirement homes would have the burden of putting some animals down, due to health or medical problems...but hey it's a better alternative. Yes I know that this would have to be set up properly (keep our darn government out of it, and would have to have some sort of a "board" set up, I don't know regionally? so that we could keep money from being filtered.... the board would have to consist of Professional Horse men, as well as backyarders, I think a diverse mix of "Board Members" would somewhat keep it "above board". The race horse industry has recently done this on a voluntary basis.

3) Lastly, until we as a whole come together with some good ideas , the politicians are going to make this a worse situation. I take full responsiblity for ANY horse or animal that I now own, will own in the forseeable future, and any horse that is bred by me. My critter's will always rest easy.... When I sell an animal (doesn't happen often) or give one away..they all always go with a contract that states.."seller to be given first right of refusal, at any time should the new owner decide to sell, convey, or dispose of said horse in any manner, excluding humane euathansia, in the event of an medical emergency" most people I have done this with, have lived up to thier end of the deal, I'm sure that at some point one will not, and one of mine will end up slaughtered. (there's way more to my contract's but that's the gist of that part..lol) but at least I retain some control over the horses future...when I give one away, there is a clause in there that states the new owners requirements for the conditions in which the horse must be maintained, and I may give the, 72 hours to correct any unbearable situation, or I may seize the horse and they relinquish any and all rights. Just a small protection for the critter that's been in my care!

anyway...just my thoughts on it...take it or leave it!

 

[manyhorses]

I have to add my two cents to those who abhor the conditions of slaughter for horses.  Ever think about the conditions for poultry (ever seen a chickens shoved in cages, stacked on trucks, headed for the plant?), cattle, and pork?  As a "recovering" vegetarian, my issue was never that it was meat from an animal, but how that animal was treated.  The next time you eat a hamburger, think about that animal's life and death.  We love horses and wouldn't think to eat them, but the issue exists that all creatures need to be treated with dignity, whether we think of them as friends or meat.
Yes, it is a double edged sword...too many horses and too expensive to euthanize.  It happens, we just need to make sure it happens in a humane manner.

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here here! not too mention the horrible living conditions of factory farm animals, or the amount of antibiotics that go in them because of such... I could go on, and on..I HAVE NO problem eating meat of most any type, but I do think that as a civilized popultion we SHOULD be able to come up with something better then the current situations for ALL animals..not just horses, dogs, cats, ferrets, cattle, swine, you name it! Problem is we live in a disposable society, and this includes our animals, and unfortunately I se this way TOO often, our eldely. I read a book once about a Woman Veterinarian that every spring bought a pig and a cow, fed them all summer, played with them, gave them the good life, and in the fall, home slaughtered them. She found that easier to take then eating factory animals.

 

[manyhorses]

..Of course most of us should know that in no way will that stop horse slaughter as now they will taken for LONGER rides into Canada and Mexico And those longer rides then in those trailers will be even More inhumane

that was my exact thought..........

and my mind wasn't thinking regarding USDA inspectors I knew how that worked

I am sorry I do not think legislating to end slaughter will work....if we already cannot enforce the laws we have how does making more possibly help.......

can somebody here please post the number of horses slaughtered in the US for me.......I would like to know actual numbers

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Here ya go

US Horse Slaughter Statistics

National Agricultural Statistics Service/USDA

1989 - Present

Year #

of Horses Slaughtered in US

2005 63,651

2004 65,976

2003 50,564

2002 42,312

2001 55,776

2000 47,134

1999 62,813

1998 72,120

1997 88,086

1996 113,399

1995 112,677

1994 109,353

1993 184,320

1992 243,585

1991 236,467

1990 315,192

1989 342,877

Updated September 29, 2005

 

[manyhorses]

I dont care about the cows in Hindu, lucky them they get a long and happy life, I am talking about the horses in America. 

I have to agree with Coco - how many people do you see ridden there cows in shows? Or driving there pigs in carts? Or taking there chicken for a walk?

Horses carried man threw history, they deserve more then to be torchered on the way to a slaughter house, ripped apart and used for food.

Is this the same forum that was all upset because some one stuffed there mini horse foal? Might I ask the difference in sending that foal to a slaughter house to be used as food or to keep her body in the corner of the living room? I remember every one of you thought it was sick, wrong, nasty and the filly should have been laid in the ground and burried - but you mean to tell me it would have been better for her to be torn apart? Im missing something here. Wheres the difference? I think you all change your minds like underwear and just go with the flow on different things for lack of conflict

Any how, dead horses, yes go ahead and slaughter them if you wish, but why go to a action and buy a perfectly healthy horse who could be used for ridding and change some ones life - why kill it? If any one hasnt noticed America isnt exactly lacking on food, in fact 90% of the americans could stand a little less meat and a diet.

OK and even if it were ok to kill a horse, which there is a great over population some do need to go, your all ok with the fact that some slaughter houses dont KILL the animal before hanging it upsidown and pulling it apart? Might I add that is after a long trip pack together like a sandwich, not fed for days and days, half of them die on the way there.

Pretty said your all in a up roar that some one stuffed there foal but its ok for healthy horses to be torn apart before they are dead all for food that we dont need.

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Oh My, Young One.. That is not at ALL meant to be condesending... IF we could save them all, WHERE in the world would you put them all???? 65-70,000 horses per year, just here in the USA, (we won't count the one's that cross the border)....times by what??? lets's just say 10 years....700,000 WHO wil pay for their care and upkeep?? Medical bills as they get older?? What do YOU do with the carcasses, when they are put donw humanely?? many states, and towns now have laws against the burial of animals in anywhere but landfills, or incineration...do you see what I'm getting at?? It's not just about "save the horses from slaughter"...but what do WE do with all of them?? and who foots the cost?? and what about all the people that HAVE good intentions on saving these animals, but don't know how to care for them?? so they end up starved, abused, the list goes on, and on....we would all like to see a solution to this..but it's not just cut and dried. A slaughter house and a rendering plant are NOT the same thing, A rendering plant can use the same method (captive bolt) but I would dare say that because the horse is in a less stressful situation the captive bolt does it's job the first time....not 3-4 like you see in the slaughter house video's (and to whom it may concern there IS more then one video of this, but the major one was helped to be produced by a Dr. at MSU) problem with some horse owner's is that the rendering plants are far and few between. So that leaves them with slim options to dispose of the horse, if it must be put down. Some of us are fourtunate still to live in areas where we CAN have our horses euthanised at home, and buried in the backyard (I Have 4 in mine

)... but what are the rest of the horse people to do that don't have the option....do you see the larger picture here?? You can check my other posts..I have been trying to come up with options and submit them to the proper people...there is a group with the AAEP (american association equine practitioners) that are trying to come up with more viable ways to end the slaughter/suffering of horses. There are several groups like that..."Canter" is another one worth checking out...

 

[DunPainted]

Well said, and excellent ideas for SOLUTION(S) to the issue. Clearly, you know of what you speak and have given it much consideration.

If you have a moment, could you PM your contract verbiage regarding right of first refusal and horses entrusted to potential owners.

Thank you.