Infertility Help/Ideas

[T'sMinis]

I am needing some help, ideas, thoughts, etc.

I have a mare who I acquired...her last foal was 2010. I have been trying to get her bred since April....grrrrr. She has regular cycles....will breed about 8 days. I hand breed her. In the beginning I bred her everyday so I wouldn't "miss" the day. I have been working with a vet who actually specializes in reproduction. Her last cycle I treated her with SMZ's and bred her on days 3-5-7 and did oxytocin injections twice a day on her non-breeding days. Well, she was ultrasounded today...still no luck.

This mare was also on regumate for the last two pregnancies, so, at the end of her cycles I automatically started her on it.

I am open to suggestions? Thanks for your help in advance.

 

[T'sMinis]

PS....Mare has been on Thyroid-L since the end of April. She was not obese but vet thought too heavy. She is in great condition now...could actually be shown

 

[Miniv]

Has she had a "work up" by a vet? And a blood test should indicate how her thyroid is.

Some folks may flame me for saying this, but there is only so much fussing one should do to get a mare pregnant, IMO. Sometimes there is a reason why....... We've been through it (after breeding for over 20 years) and if a mare shows that she's sound amd she's been flushed, we just let her be with the stallion for pasture breeding. We've had better success with that than all the invasive medical stuff, to be honest.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

Why woudl you use oxytocin at all? That creates smooth muscle contractions - the uterus is a smooth muscle! On cows, too much oxytocin WILL make them abort, every time! I would seriously question your vet. Why has she not had GnRH? Im just not sure how the oxytocin is supposed to help the situation.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Oxytocin give about 4 hours after the mare has been bred is shown to help a mare "clear debris" after breeding. But I don't ever use it. If the mare is 10 yrs or younger flush her with about 5 cc of PCN, and 2 cc of amikacin in about 150 cc of sterile water. Wait 48 hours and if she has NOT ovulated breed her. The water acts as an irritant and will stimulate neutrophils, and the antibiotics will clear any infection. If she is OVER 10 years do this 1 time every 24 hours for 3 consecutive days, wait 48 hours and if she has not ovulated breed her. Don't waste your money on cultures, if this concoction does not cure it, you don't want it! I have bought so many non breeding mares, used this and poof! got the mare in foal! Its cheap, effective! BTW don't breed any more often than every other day. If you want to get your mare if foal, try it! You will be glad you did!

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

So you are effectively flushing the semen out of the uterus and potentially the egg? doesnt make sense to me. Just a few hours off of timing on you or the mares part, there goes the pregnancy. Why not just use sterile technique, and put her through a heat cycle or two to prevent debris? If she has debris in her uterus, somebody definitely missed the ball on the last foaling and she didn't clean all the way, metritis can be subclinical as well.

Why is GnRH not used more in horses? Or prostaglandin? Instead of doing all these flushes, why not just bring her into heat yourself, and make her ovulate?

PLEASE culture your mare! Instead of doing the run around on drugs, your vet can run a simple sensitivity plate. You will spend MUCH less money in the long run, and prevent your mare from being shot up with all sorts of drugs she doesnt need. I HATE flushes on my cattle. They never breed back right away after in my experience. Plus, you can do more harm then good if you arent experienced by introducing more bacteria, or cervix damage, or even a uterine tear - and you're just putting more crap in her uterus for her to have to get rid of.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Yes you can tear, and put more bacteria in there. You are correct, Its all in how you do things. what is easy for me may be hard for others. An old equine Vet taught me this flush, and said if this does not cure it then you don't want it! LOL! I ask him about culturing, and he said yes we can do that, if you want to spend the extra money, but I am still flushing them with this flush, ( Amikacin PCN) and if they don't settle, let them eat at someone elses barn! I have used it for years, and generally flush most of my older mares before re breeding them with no adverse effects, and breed most on the same heat cycle with excellent results. I always flush a mare when they are in heat as the cervix is open and laying on the floor of the vagina, really simple that way, and you can easily insert a pipet, guess I should have mentioned that.

I loved Dr. Blackwelder, he was so knowledgeable and treated my dollar like it was his own money, the kinda Vet that just made you feel comfortable in his presence. The kind of man that had tons of extra schooling in lameness and reproduction, but a head full of common sense and the ability to communicate all that in a humble way. He is retired now, and his son has taken over his practice, really like him too, but he will never be "Dr. B"

I don't know about them there cows, as I could never work at a dairy(would ruin my manicure) but this flush sure enough does work on a mini mare! I have personally seen it many, many times!

 

[Marty]

I had a mare a long time ago and since she never came up bred, I was constantly disappointed and I mean I cried real tears about it, I and had so many tests run on the poor girl it got crazy and I had to ask myself why on earth am I putting this horse through this>She didn't come cheap and of course I thought I deserved a baby or two from her.Then it suddenly hit me like a ton of bricks: Somethings are not meant to be and going against Mother Nature was a no-no. I gave it up with her, left her alone already and let her be a loving pet who served no other purpose but to be my sweetie. I finally figured out when things are all that difficult, that's a sign for me to take heed about the rest that could happen so I'm glad I didn't push. Not what you want to hear and I'm no help but good luck whatever happens. .

 

[Lewella]

When you give oxytocin 4 hours post breeding the sperm has already entered the oviduct where the egg will be fertilized. The oxytocin causes the uterus to contract and helps clear any fluid and debris introduced with the semen making the uterus more hospitable for any embryo that may make its way there. In Thoroughbreds a uterine lavage is also often done 4 hours post breeding, particularly in mares prone to endometritis.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Yes Lewella, the last seminar I attended this past Jan talked about the oxytocin injections, I really need to try them with my older mares that don't conceive the first time. Its just never been part of my routine, however I will try to incorporate it more, as this is one of the things that was stressed. It is important when a mare has a hard time clearing debris, and is a cheap, easy way to help the problem, since the sperm should already be in the fallopian tubes there should be no problems with it interfering. A lavage also helps make a "clean" place for the fertilized egg( which has not left the fallopian tubes yet) to implant, so that is 100% correct too!

Dang I am just lazy!!!!!! I have always just flushed my mares prior to breeding, I am going to get on the ball with the ones that have not settled yet and do some of these things. ITs just so hard sometimes to change your routine even when you know it needs to be done! LOL! I just need a little kick in the butt sometimes to get motivated!

 

[HGFarm]

I would NEVER put a horse on Thyro-L unless they have been tested for thyroid imbalance and tested low. If she is not low, and she is given that... it's going to make her to high. Either way will affect their ability to become pregnant and maintain pregnancy. I HATE that people use this as a weight control drug (And I know people that do!!) - it affects other things besides fertility, like heart function, etc....

I also would have this mare cultured, but bear in mind, sometimes even that doesnt show all infections. There are other things that could be checked too- a uterine biopsy, etc..

 

[lil hoofbeats]

I take thyroid medicine for myself, i was on the upper limit of "normal" but i still chose to take it, and it does help with my weight. But as with everything including water there are side effects, that must be given consideration.

There are tons of things you can do for increased mare fertility especially if you have unlimited funds. And many of the out comes depend on the person performing them. Just as not all Medical Doctors are created equal, neither are all Vets. You are right, not all infections especially low grade will show on cultures. 80% are strep, that can be cured with PCN flush, i use the Amikacin which runs about 1.00 a cc and you only use 2 cc per flush. This is simple any Vet, and anyone shown how should be able to successfully do it without much struggle, its cheap, and this flush will cure most, (not) all infections. The rest can be costly and expensive to have done. I wish i had the funds to do the other procedures, but its just not cost effective in the long run. This simple flush has proven over the years, to be very successful with problem breeding mares, and i would recommend anyone trying to get a mare in foal to try it before looking to more expensive procedures.

 

[T'sMinis]

Thanks for the in put everyone. Since it's getting late in the season for me, I decided to turn her out with the stud and let her be a horse. If she comes up bred...Great!!!! If not...I will worry about in the spring. Lil Hoofbeats, I wrote down your recipe for success...lol. Thanks for sharing it, that will be the first thing I try in the spring but I am going to say a few more prayers this month. I swear breeding season stresses me more than foaling season