I find this fascinating. I have a certain mare who I would love to try this with. She has always been a certain way, and is extremely smart, so it is hard to tell what is "her" and what could be ulcers. She doesn't have "classic" signs, just weird, little ones that I notice. I meant to have the vet pull blood a few weeks ago, but completely forgot (More focused on other horses who were sick) but plan to next time he is out, just to be safe. In the mean time, this is something I could try. Heck, I'm sure several of the horses would benefit from an all hay diet...I just thought I would mention a little something here about ulcers. A few weeks ago I went to a seminar put on by an equine nutritionist (from Purina)about making hay stretch during our horrible drought and lack of hay.She mentioned a new study where they were able to put a camera into a horse's stomach during workouts. They found that horse's stomachs collapse during exertion and more so the harder/faster they work. So when a horse is galloping it is super likely, with a very small stomach volume avalible, a horse will get ulcers from the stomach acid being pushed up into the esphogas. It was reccommended that horses never work on an empty stomach to prevent ulcers. It was also reccommended that horses were fed maybe 30 mins before a workout but, not much more, so as to avoid ulcers. She also mentioned feeding alfalfa to prevent and treat ulcers. My vet/chiro said that alfalfa acts like a tums because of the extra calcium in it. If your horse leaves his concentrates (ie grains) for hay, he is trying to self medicate because he has ulcers and it feels better to stop eating grain and eat alfalfa, or grass hay if he has no alfalfa. It was reccommended to me by my vet to feed a small amount of alfalfa with their grain so they can help themselves heal/prevent their ulcers. Actually my vet said to take the horse off of grain for awhile if ulcers were suspected. I have had great success with alfalfa added to the diet to get my slow grain eaters to eat more normally. For example, it worked with a horse I had in for some socializing. She would not eat grain very fast and would beg for hay even with a full bucket of grain. I mean, to me it is odd for a horse to leave grain for coastal!
I took her off grain and gave her alf for awhile instead. Then I added grain back after two weeks, still feeding her alfalfa. When I sent her home a few months later, she no longer ate slowly. Vet said he was positive she had ulcers. My friend is anti-alfalfa, so she has not had any since she returned home 2 years ago and still eats her grain quickly (at a comprable speed to her other minis). So if I was told my horse had ulcers, I would feed him before I worked him and I would also make sure he had alfalfa...WITHOUT grain (if it were me) at least for a little while.
The other thing you can do is give him a vitamin b shot. It is amazing how being low on b vitamins can make you sluggish and "off." I get a vitamin b shot about once a week!It is hard to overdose on b vitamins too. My vet told me 2 cc for my 300lb minis. Did your recent vet check include any bloodwork? This won't help you to know about b vitamins (stored in cells, not in blood) but you can tell a lot about organ function by a good bloodwork up.
One last thing, not that it is not ill-fitting tack or soreness, but assuming or ruling those out... the more horses learn, the more they have in their arsenal to use against you!It is possible, if nothing else comes out being the problem, that he is doing what any of us would do...anything we can to get out of working harder than necessary! If left without supervision or any sort of guidance at work, eventually most people would begin to do the bare minimum. He may have just figured out how to get you to let him be lazy! Now he is protesting having to work harder than he would like! OR he could be confused if he was trained by someone other than you. At first he was strong in his training and understanding. After awhile, he might be confused without a refresher. I second the suggestion of taking some lessons with a good driving trainer. If they tweek one tiny thing and it makes you and your horse happier, it is worth every penny!
Ok, Ok, I have babbled on long enough...probably no one is reading anymore! LOL
My question to you, is how do you "not" feed grain to one horse when those around him are getting it? I mean I can't take the young horses off their grain, and I know my family would not take the large horses off of their grain either. Is there any grain that isn't grain? Such as hay chunks or multi-vitamins? Or does that defeat the no grain diet purpose. Also is it ONLY alfalfa hay? It is very high in protein, isn't it? My parents have often expressed not wanting alfalfa only hay for that reason.If I had to guess, I'd say that the stress level of your recent competitions got him. I would take him off grain for a little while so his ulcers can heal. Then when the stomach lining has repaired itself, your grain will become a non issue again. That is what I would do if it was my fur kid. The fact that he would rather have hay and not grain is the give away for me!
Sometimes we seem to get our wires crossed, Lori, and I'm trying really hard not to take that last line about people throwing food at them when it's convenient personally given that you quoted me and seem to object to my choice of words.MiLo Minis said:
That makes me think that he definitely has ulcers and needs a continued course of treatment. After the first time 30 days wasn't enough my vet had me do it for 45 and then taper off the treatment for another few weeks in graduated doses. That worked, but the problem soon came back without additional measures to prevent a new ulcer from forming.JMS Miniatures said:
I buy them from my local feed store but SmartPak and Valley Vet and most other catalogues carry it too. Valley Vetmidnight star stables said:
I don't think that Lori was pointing her finger at anyone. This is a fact of life for most people. I'll admit, I don't feed my horses more than twice a day. My horses are turned out 23/7 in a herd (They are in for about an hour when I work some horse or futz around the barn.) I do use slow feeders when it is logical, but my horses come into the barn for their "grain". I do give them hay with it, though. I just have never "babied" my horses. Over the course of my professional life, I haven't had time to. I worked 45 min. from my house. Would it be better for their systems if I did feed them more often? Yeah, probably. But most people we know do the same thing, and have for years. Yes, that could be why we (collectively in the industry) see more instances of ulcers overall. If you have the time and resources to change up your system to be more "ulcer concious", go for it.
I feed coastal like normal and give my ulcer suspect alfalfa hay in place of his grain. No one feels left out and the grain is not needed. I am not suggesting replacing anything other than the grain with some alfalfa...if they start getting too plump (never had that problem with the ones with ulcers) you can back off the amount of alfalfa.
Actually Leia, I wasn't pointing fingers at you or anyone else personally.Sometimes we seem to get our wires crossed, Lori, and I'm trying really hard not to take that last line about people throwing food at them when it's convenient personally given that you quoted me and seem to object to my choice of words.I apologize if I'm reading more into your statements than you intended, this is an emotionally hot issue for me.Leia
A very good point.susanne said:
That's what I meant when I said that I think a lot of "colics" in the past were actually ulcers but even then I think more horses are "colic-ing" now than ever before and I think it is because we are working their schedules around us rather than as before.
