Hi there!
Do you have pictures of the set up you used when logging with your QH filly? I'd love to see what you did.
As to the backing up - I think you mis-understood or maybe I wrote it wrong. All the folk I meet with at the various Draft Horse Functions DO train their horses to back up to varying degrees - but only one step at a time and not automatically when they stop (I use other training methods and backing up is "automatic" whenever you stop in hand and under saddle on my riding horses - I know I use backing up a lot in hand. If I'm leading a pony/horse and I stop, they stop. If I step backward - they should too. In one that is alert and "finished" - they'll back up quietly and quickly but not until I do or until I ask, but when they are first learning I've had several that run backwards and a couple that "take it to extremes", Iggy mainly, even when you don't ask for backing. When I was riding - to get a better stop - we used backing up extensively with every stop even from a walk and for a while some horses will back up automatically even before asked. I've had two saddle horses that I trained that all you had to do was shift your weight forwards slightly after settling back on your seat bones and they'd run backwards - really upsetting anybody that didn't understand their body positions).
Many of the drivers I've read training books from DO recommend that you either wait until the very end of driving training to teach backing in harness or while hitched. They never really explained why (now I will have to go find those references). I found that confusing coming from my background where our riding horses we wanted to have backing up balanced and light and at different speeds. I also didn't understand why you wouldn't want a driving horse to back - as you often back them into their hitch (well - when I went and watched several Welsh ponies being harnessed in a 4-up, they were driven to a point, then muscled into position by two great big guys<!>. They were then held "still" by the driver until the two in front were also into position. They didn't actually "back up" at any point, but were pushed and shoved into their positions on a floating pole. That's the only 4 up I've had the chance to see hitched to that type of carriage. The rest are already hitched when I see them. Watching that scared me to death and I understood why she gets mad when I hitch with no help. She literally can't w/o at least two people to help her!). At Draft Events, I'm usually always busy with mine or in a couple of cases arrived later and didn't see any of the first hitching. But yes, they are driven towards the equipment, turned & lined up, halted and backed up if needed.
A lot of the drafts that I've seen being hitched to a tongue are driven over the pole, turned & stopped such that they are basically in line on each side of the tongue. This is l what I do if I hitch in the open. Sometimes I have help, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I have help - I have the helper "head them", while I do the hitching - sometimes I have the pony/ponies stand and we both hitch (depends on the pair and who is helping). I want the ponies to "park" (stand, freeze. The commands I use are "Whoa. Stand") so that I can hitch them alone if necessary. Once the neck yoke is hooked, I may need one to step back to hook the chains (or both) - but literally only one step is all it takes. I also hitch with them tied at the trailer - two ways - I've positioned my cart or wagon with the tongue and then led them up and tied them one at a time on each side of the tongue, run the lines to their bridles, then hook the neck yoke and then swap back and forth to get the chains hooked up. I still have to sometimes ask them to back up to hook up the double tree. The 2nd way - I've had them harnessed and ready, then pushed/pulled my fore cart or wagon into position to hook the neck yoke and double trees (that's some serious work sometimes. Have to watch the neck yoke and their legs).
It's easier to train them to hitch out in the open than to hitch them tied (FOR ME). I work with them both ways - so if I go somewhere that I have to keep them tied or have no help, they know what we are doing. They also get worked so that they will turn away from the trailer after I untie them and step into the vehicle (that was really interesting the first time I tried that! Found out I hadn't done enough short turning work with the tongue - they weren't happy about doing turns on their haunches while the tongue was in contact with their rear legs.)
I would say that most of the ponies I work with are still green. They have more ground driving time (especially since I "log" with them) than driving hitched time right now. Even the two "experienced" mares haven't been balanced out yet as to down the road driving time (I don't think. They are probably very close). I can honestly say I've spent many, many hours working with them to get them to stand quietly when I hitch them out in the open. I hitched them as a pair (Bell and Bit) for the first time to a wheeled vehicle in March 2011 (started training them as a pair in June 2010) and bought my current little wagon in October 2012. I sold the "big wagon" and wish I hadn't, but that helped pay for the new one from Pioneer. The rest of the ponies have a lot less time being hitched and driven to a wheeled vehicle (Iggy w/ Stuffy and Iggy w/ Cupid - haven't been hitched at all yet). Between March and July this year, my ponies had had very little work - several reasons. All were a bit excited when taken out to work in July and a little jumpy. Even the "experienced" mares weren't standing as well as I would have liked (jumpy and a bit "wired") and when asked to back up, they wanted to keep going (shouldn't have been surprised, but I was).
My pairs in order of experience -
Bell & Bit
Bell or Bit & Koalah (I think I've worked Koalah equally with both Bell and Bit).
Bell, Bit, Koalah (3 abreast - ground driven several times - 5 hitches to the forecart)
Bell & AJ (AJ is now deceased - he did a couple of weeks ground driving as pair, then a total of 4 hitches as a pair to a vehicle, 3x w/ Bell)
Bit & AJ (several ground drives, 1x paired pulling the wagon - pics in album)
Bell & Cassie (used Bell @ first, then switched to Bit. Used this pair to pull "logs" recently as Bit dealing w/ hoof abcess. They weren't happy this time around, but they re-learned to work together)
Bit & Cassie (more hitches together than with Bell)
Bell & GG (GG is Bell's 2010 daughter and spent 2010 "driving" with her dam while I was learning to train Bell to drive single and as a pair with Bit)
Stuffy & Iggy (handful of times - ground driving as a pair)
Cupid & Iggy (about 5 times ground driving as a pair - have "logged" 2x as a pair)
Cassie, Cupid and Iggy have never been hitched to a single cart (yet). Cupid and Iggy have not been hitched to any wheeled vehicles yet - both will probably be worked with Stuffy the first time - before hooking them together.
GG was only hitched and driven to a cart 5 times, before starting to work as a pair with her dam and now has 10 hitches to the wagon as a pair. They've never pulled the forecart.
Cassie has had more pair hitches with the forecart than with the wagon (with Bell and Bit), but more hours trail driving pulling the wagon (only with Bit).
Have also started and hitched/driven Kechi, KoKo and Flower single in cart. Ami is now being worked with and will soon be pulling a cart, too. She is the smallest one I have and I don't know if she'll work as a partner with anyone or not. She might work with Cupid and/or Stuffy. Maybe with Rio if he stays small and remains here. Actually I'm hoping that Rio and Cupid (full brothers) will make a pair. Their full sister looks like a replica of their sire - taller and leggier but narrower/lighter framed.
Bell, Bit, Cassie and GG have been ground driven as a 4 abreast hitch. I've got to do a lot more practicing before I'm ready to hitch them to a vehicle... I haven't been able to figure out how to hook them up by myself - I don't think I'll be able to drive a 4 abreast or a 4 up by myself (besides which it's not recommended to do multiples by yourself). I do like the 3 abreast hitch and may just stick to that most of the time. I bought a "bush hog" type pasture mower last fall and was hoping to use it this fall hooked behind the forecart. I don't think I'm going to have them ready, though... Eventually the mower will have a seat attached directly to it for driving a 3 or 4 abreast - very much like the one that the Bryant's use (they have one picture on their website in their gallery using a pair).
I am in AWE of the larger hitches. I surely do appreciate the time and the work it takes to get a team or a hitch put together - both in size(s) and in numbers!
One of the guys that goes to our Draft stuff regularly hauls either 6 or 8 horses to do in one hitch (Percherons - has a tractor trailer rig for the horses and a flatbed truck for the equipment). BUT he always has at least
2 of his
employees with him (very different level than where I'm at and that I'm associated with). He has a total of 28 Percheron geldings that he uses for farm work plus tractors/other equipment and I have no idea how much land he really farms. A lot of acreage - turkey houses, hog houses, hay, watermelon, tobacco, soy beans, cotton, wheat, corn and oats. He is also one of the supporters that brings groups to his farm - he's got a set up for big gatherings - looks like an old west town... LOL. Has several miles of trails cut thru woods directly on his property and several cut thru's around other properties with one road crossing. FUN! I always try to make it to his farm for drives now - in April and October. Several of our ponies have gotten lots of driving time at his place.
I think it would be easier to do a link to all of
our albums and you can just work thru them, LOL.
For training purposes, when I trained my QH filly to drive, I used a wire fence stretcher as my single tree for logging. I had 3 hooks on it. I had the middle hook bent closed and the others bent just a bit further back. The chain stayed put because I'd bent the hooks just enough. Plus I had it positioned with the hooks' opening facing up. I also used a lead rope snapped to the middle ring to apply my own pressure to the single tree and/or lift it out of the way in the occasion of an accident. I used big carabiners to attach the single tree to my logging tongs or barrels/whatever I had available.
I didn't know work horses weren't supposed to back-up. I trained my mare to take a single step back at the halt in order for me to unfasten whatever I had behind her and give her slack in the traces. I guess that would explain why the Belgian pet of the minis doesn't back like I expect him to.
I enjoy reading you adventures OP!
