I am asking out of ignorance...

[The Simple Life Farm]

I am truely asking out of ignorance. I see so many posts asking the color of their horse. Why? Is this so they can be registered correctly? I do not breed, so I have never had to determine the color of a horse. Or is it because some colors are more desirable than others?

Example: If I purchased a weanling, and it is registered as black, but then starts to show signs of becoming a bay,(probably using a bad example) does it really matter???

Seriously, I honestly don't know the answer. I am not wanting to hurt any feelings, just wanting to learn something. Maybe this is something that really should be of more importance to me.

As you can probably tell, I am still new to minis.

Another example: Last year at Nationals in the solid color stallion/gelding class, most of the top 10 wins went to solid black horses. Why? Don't get me wrong, I have a solid black stallion, I think he is awesome, but I never considered putting him in the color class (until I saw all the blacks winning OH! ). Seen one black, seen them all.

Again, not looking to hurt feelings, just wanna know what I am missing. Please don't flame me

 

[nootka]

Truthfully, color is only important as far as identification goes.

I don't think, other than LWO, that there is anything life or death about it.

Color is merely that, color. It doesn't affect a horse's temperament, their movement, soundness or anything else.

It DOES matter to get the colors correct on the papers, and that is really the only reason I try to be accurate about it at all. Other than that, it's somewhat a point of curiosity as I have no huge preference for or against any color since my main goal is the most conformationally correct horse, sound horse that I can breed.

I have colors that I love more than others, but the best-shaped horse will always catch my eye first and foremost.

Color is important in some breeding programs, and so it becomes even more important to have accurate records on color (to the point of dna testing) so that they know what they will get.

What's bothersome to me is to find horse after horse registered incorrectly as palomino, sorrel, etc. when they are both silver bays, or liver chestnuts that turn out to be silvers. It's not life or death, it's just a lack of general education on all our part (we as owners as we are responsible for identifying the color first and foremost), and then the registry for missing the ball when they go to double-check (they do have pictures to go by these days, and in some cases dna).

Just my .02, I don't see why anyone would flame you for this question.

Liz

 

[alongman]

I agree with Nootka - color is important as far as registering as this could mean the difference between showing and not. If a horse is incorrectly registered, the stewards at the show may determine that it is a DIFFERENT horse. Also, it's nice to know genetically what I'm dealing with.

As for any other things dealing with color (conformation, etc...) it doesn't play a part! Some pinto patterns can lead to optical illusions from a judging perspective though - be careful!

As for the blacks winning, it's simply a preference on a well turned-out horse. I have my colors I prefer - a beautiful bay that is well groomed surely catches my eye!

 

[Jill]

Color does not really matter, but we all have our favorite colors. I've never saw an awesomely built horse and thought he / she was not amazing regardless of color

For color class, really, it's just the color the judge(s) like the best in the ring at that moment. For AMHR, it's not based on conformation at all. For AMHA, I think it's based slightly (10%? 20%?) on conformation as well as color.

Personally, my favorite colors are silver and cream dilutes so that is what I have the most of. If I had tons of space and tons of time, I would not concentrate quite as much as I have. However, I have not ever let color make up for things I don't like in conformation.

Additionally, we do all notice color. We may weight it much differently (some not at all), but it's the first thing we notice about a horse. We can identify the color before we get a close enough look to evaluate conformation. Color is also something that seems to really "do it" for some novices and newbies, who are not yet aware or knowledgable about conformation but do know the colors they really think are pretty.

 

[Dona]

Color is pure & simple....personal preference.

Many people are interested in horse's colors, because they love learning about color genetics.

It becomes "important" when people breed specifically for certain colors or patterns.

Many breeders breed for the wild pinto patterns.

Others breed for dilute colors, such as Palominos, Buckskins, Cremellos & Perlinos.

Some prefer solid, dark colors.

Some prefer grays.

So, if a breeder has put together a program specializing in certain colors or patterns....color becomes very important! They will only want horses in their breeding program that "fit" with what they want to produce.

As a side note.....Please remember that breeding for specific colors or patterns (pinto or appy) is always secondary to good conformation. That is a must for ANY breeding program!

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

For me personally, I love studying the genetics of equine color. I'm fascinated by it, and love figuring out what my horses carry genetically so I can work out all the possibilities for the color of the foal when crossing a stallion and a mare. It's like another addiction. OH!

But if it doesn't interest you, then it doesn't really matter.

 

[Riverdance]

Color is realy only imprtant when you register.and for some peoples breeding programs. Some breed for Tobiano or Overo, some like palominos or buckskins (dilutes). Some want to stay away from certain colors too.

If a horse is registered a wrong color, which many of them are, then when someone is breeding for future generations and are looking to produce certain colors, they can be dissapointed when they buy a horse and find out it is not the color they thought. For example, how many people have registerd a flaxen (white mane and tail) chestnut as a palomino? or a silver bay? Many, Many.

Palomino carries the dilute gene, a flaxen chestnut does not. If a parent is not dilute, then the resulting foal can not be a dilute (the resulting foal has to have at least one parent be a dilute for the foal to possibly be a dilute. Just because you breed a dilute to a solid color, or a dilute to a dilute, does not mean you will get a dilute, only if one of the parents is a double dilute will you be quranteed to get a dilute). This can really mess up a breeders breeding program(especially new breeders who do not know genetics) if horse colors are not registered correctly.

Some people do not want to breed grays, and get all worried if there is gray in a pedigree, even though at least one of the parents has to be a gray in order to produce a gray. Some think the silver dapple gene is a gray and register it that way. Again creating a problem for the future breeder in regards to combining certain clors to get what they want.

Other than that, a horse is a horse and everyone has their own preference to the colors they like. Black is big in color for the solid color class right now, but you have to remember, the judges are also judging for best conformation of the color horse too, not just his coloring.

 

[Warpony]

Like others have said, colour is important mostly for identification reasons unless you have a colour preference you want to breed for. If you have paint horses it is also important to know if they carry the lethal white gene. But mostly it is just about preference. Personally I like to know what colour my horses are genetically even though I don't breed because I think it is interesting to know. I want their papers to be accurate (the fact that my gelding is registered as bay and they won't change it makes my head explode).

I do have a colour preference, and if I bred there are a few colours I would want to avoid. For me I would want to know what genetic colour my breeding animals were so I could avoid those colours. In the list of things that matter about a horse colour comes in dead last on my list, but it DOES still matter to me (though obviously not much since my favorite horse happens to be my LEAST favorite colour, lol).

And because the topic of colour always seems to turn into a conversation about how much more important conformation and temperament are than colour: I think it is entirely possible to breed for conformation AND colour, it's just likely to take a lot more effort to find that perfect horse AND have it be the colour you want. Despite what some people seem to think there is no shame in breeding for colour AS LONG AS you aren't accepting less than ideal conformation and temperament to get it. Some people seem to think breeding for colour always means you ignore everything else just to get it. I'm sure in some cases this may be true, but in a lot of other cases the breeders are being very responsible and breeding for conformation and temperament AS WELL AS colour.

 

[HGFarm]

Color is important for proper identification, but it is also important for those who want to breed something specific.

If you wanted to breed for palominos for example and ended up with a silver instead of a sorrel, you are going to be disappointed. Also, I have seen a picture of a couple that APPEARED to be palominos but were not at all- they had the silver gene.

So IF I want a breeding program for certain colors, you would want to make sure you are getting what you think you are.....

I bought a horse that was registered as a sorrel and it was a dun!! He had the lineback, primitive stripes, etc... and was as dun as could be. Someone would wonder, from parents listed as a 'sorrel' and a black, let's say, where all the dilute babies are coming from!

I have a mare here now that is registered as a black and she is NOT black. She is a lobo grulla- very dark and ALMOST black, but in the summer time, you can JUST barely see the leg stripes, etc... and she is producing grullo offspring! Her dam is a buckskin and she has 'duns' and other dilute colors on both sides... I thought I was buying a black or smokey black, as I am not into the dilute colors- though I must say her grullo colt was beautiful and she is a pretty mare and good producer, so I dont mind at all.

 

[Katiean]

I looked at a colt the other day. He was registered AMHR. His papers say Buckskin. IMO he was a silver dapple. for one I have never seen a buckskin with a silver/white tail. But, AMHR , with the pics of the horse, put Buckskin in the papers. You can tell by the pictures it is the silver dapple colt in question. No one is trying to pass off papers that don't belong with the horse. What happens down the road when someone at AMHR catches this mistake?

 

[Suzie]

For us color is very important. We search first for conformation, temperament and also for color. We like dilutes and double dilutes,just our personal preference. So our breeding horses should carry at least one creme gene here. We are not really appy fans or pinto fans for that matter (although I have seen some gorgeous ones!) and that is strictly our personal preference for breeding. We also try and breed in the Gold Melody Boy line for the majority as we prefer that also. We prefer buckskins, palominos, cremello and smoky blacks. We do have some true bays to cross with cremello to hopefully produce the buckskin color we like.

So, when we look at a horse that meets #1 and #2, it is important to us that it is registered correctly as far as color. Of course, we can always color DNA any prospective horse we buy but that does get expensive after a while, so proper color designation on papers really helps when looking to add a horse for us.

 

[nootka]

Katiean, I would hope that this is where dna testing would help corroborate such questions (as to identity). I hope these records start being more a part of the horse's registration for that reason alone (human fallibility).

Identity of the horse, even with photos, can really be hard to prove based on description of arbitrary colors, heights, etc.

Liz

 

[Dontworrybeappy]

speaking as one who is breeding for a specific color/pattern, color isn't "important" at all - it's just fun - the icing om the cake. so to speak!

If you like a certain color or pattern, there's nothing at all wrong about concentrating on it - as long as you do your homework about what's underneath - correct breed type and conformation, etc!

 

[sedeh]

I enjoy showing Pinto. So for me color is important. I agree that correct conformation is the most important and I do like a nice head and neck! I wouldn't buy a crooked legged/plain headed/short necked horse just because they were a pretty pinto color. I think it's harder when you breed for certain colors because it does limit you in your selections. But there are a lot of nice horses out there in a variety of "colors" so as long as you're color blind when it comes to conformation, I think you should have what's pleasing to your eye!

What really ticks me off is when the registries won't register your horses correctly! I ended up with a solid silver bay this year and both AMHA and AMHR changed it to sorrel! What is with that! Genetically it's not even close! I haven't done any DNA testing on him(mainly because he's for sale and I don't plan on keeping him) but I wonder what AMHA/AMHR would do if you could prove there's no "red" gene in his color?? Would they fix it then?? OH!

 

[targetsmom]

I too enjoy showing pinto, so we limit our selection to pinto colors (including gray!), certain bloodlines (Rowdy, Blue Boy, Buckeroo), and certain heights (34" and under). Then among those horses, we selected for the best conformation, temperament, and movement we could find. We all know that minis are like potato chips and I can't imagine how many we would have if we didn't limit our selection to pintos!! And I agree that it would be nice if the registries paid more attention to color testing. For example, if a horse is genetically a pinto, to me it should be able to be registered by PtHA even if it appears solid (which a lot of frame overos and some tobianos do).

 

[Warpony]

I looked at a colt the other day. He was registered AMHR. His papers say Buckskin. IMO he was a silver dapple. for one I have never seen a buckskin with a silver/white tail. But, AMHR , with the pics of the horse, put Buckskin in the papers. You can tell by the pictures it is the silver dapple colt in question. No one is trying to pass off papers that don't belong with the horse. What happens down the road when someone at AMHR catches this mistake?

Yup, my gelding was registered as a buckskin, when I transfered his papers to my name I sent new pictures and requested he be changed to Silver Bay, when I got the papers back he was registered as Bay. i called and they said he could be registered as Bay or Sorrel, but if I wanted it changed again I would have to pay for a correction AGAIN. Bay is closer genetically so I left it. When I called to find out if I needed pictures to change his papers from stallion to gelding I asked again and they said he could be registered as Bay or Sorrel. I have SEEN horses registered as silver bay and have no clue why they won't change his. BUT if I ever try to sell him even with pictures I wouldn't be surprised if the perspective buyer wants to know why he is registered as a colour he isn't (or that at least doesn't give the full picture of what colour he actually it).

 

[The Simple Life Farm]

Thanks everyone for your replies and educational answers. Now I understand why color is important. I guess I never looked at it that way since I don't breed. Now it all makes sense. This does seem interesting. Is there a book or website that I can learn from?

 

[HGFarm]

There are a lot of color sites on the internet- sometimes you can find them just by googling the color you are wanting to do research on and it will bring up many options to read info on many sites. It is pretty interesting and will certainly make your head swim, LOL, with all the info but also clears up many questions about colors and what makes what, etc....

 

[Songcatcher]

Thanks everyone for your replies and educational answers. Now I understand why color is important. I guess I never looked at it that way since I don't breed. Now it all makes sense. This does seem interesting. Is there a book or website that I can learn from?

For some very very basic information, go to this site. http://www.songcatcherminiaturehorseranch.com/nash_008.htm There will be links there to more detailed information.

 

[skylineminis]

What really ticks me off is when the registries won't register your horses correctly! I ended up with a solid silver bay this year and both AMHA and AMHR changed it to sorrel! What is with that! Genetically it's not even close!

The reason they changed it to sorrel is because they go on the phenotype for registrtion purposes. When a person looks at a horse, the color they appear is what needs to be for identification purposes. If you were pulled over by a state trooper and he wanted to see traveling papers and you presented him with papers calling a red horse a bay, you would probably find yourself explaining it to a judge downtown and proving you're not a horse theif. In fact, AMHR states the color on registration papers will be the phenotype ( appearance) color of the horse, as it should be.

I do think that if people wanted genotype listed on their horses papers and were willing to pay to have it done, there should be a space provided on the papers for that purpose but, it should not be a requirement.