Horse dumping

[Sue S]

I have 7 big horses and 10 minis, My health isn't good, had a liver transplant and a kidney transplant 2 years ago but with all I went through my horses are my pride and joy, we are lucky in are area so far hay is going for around 3.00 a bail(small) so we haven't had any trouble buying it, I have 4 foals coming next year, but I don't think I will breed any mares next spring because of the way the market is now, and I'm not buying any more horses until I see how things go next year, but if someone dumped any minis off at my house I would take them in, they didn't asked to be born its the breeders that keep breeding more and more and its the horses that have to suffer.

 

[Songcatcher]

There is a solution to this problem but NO ONE wants to look at it. No one wants to use reason. $200 to have a horse put down??? SOMEONE is making money out of putting them down. You think that $200 buys a more humane death than a $2.oo bullet? (not sure what a bullet costs, I haven't bought any lately.) The $200 just makes YOU feel better about it.

Too many horses being produced??? You want to save all those who are not the quality to deserve reproduction and WILL reproduce because they have been saved. I was recently looking for a stallion and received lots of replies. One in particular did not have the pattern I was looking for and I didn't give it a second glance. I saw another picture from a different angle later in an ad and he had definate dwarf characteristics, but was being advertised as being stallion material.

Being shipped to slaughter certainly has its drawbacks, but is better than being left to starve. On another forum I copied a quote from another poster;

...my state has a NO KILLER statute in place -- you can get a very stiff fine and jail time for selling an animal for slaughter in this state.
edited to add: When I first moved here 14 years ago, nobody could afford to buy horses at the livestock auctions due to out-of-state "killer buyers". SO the state ag. dept. stepped in and shut them down - now we have to GIVE horses away because they are so many.

Its quite simple, you allow horse slaughter. The unwanted, neglected, and undesirable are disposed of. Do some of them suffer? Of course. But not more than they would by starving. The quality of what is left improves and the prices go up because because the surplus is removed.

I know there are some on here who will think I am terribly cruel for suggesting such a thing. I think it is terribly cruel to continue to perpetuate the problem by not providing a way for disposal of the unwanted.

Some on here will flame me. I guess that is OK if it makes you feel better. I have found this neat little way to block replies from those who NEVER agree with me and have used it a couple of times. It helps to keep my blood pressure down.

:new_argue:

 

[MiniHunterHorseFan]

I think that the AMHA and AMHR should have yearly inspections and only the horses with the better conformation without flaws should be bred and have their offspring registered. That way the horses with conformation problems would not produce more unwanted babies. That would help better the breed too.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I know there are some on here who will think I am terribly cruel for suggesting such a thing. I think it is terribly cruel to continue to perpetuate the problem by not providing a way for disposal of the unwanted.

:new_argue:

It is horrible to even think this could be correct, of course horrifying to any horse lover who has made a special connection to there horses but .. as awful as it is... it makes sense

 

[mad for mini's]

I think the main question was missed by most here . Please correct me Stormy if I am wrong. This is not about over population or an uncaring owner letting their horses starve. It is about caring , loving, family homes that may be stressed financially already by the slow economy and now with hay prices doubling or more in some areas , some just can not afford to buy the hay needed . It does not mean that they wish or want to dump their beloved pets on someone else . Sure if the mini market was not so flooded the animals could be sold easily enough but it does not mean that these people would want to sell . They just need help at this difficult time . If you have extra hay and will not use it , would it be so bad to GIVE to someone in desperate need of it to help them keep their beloved pet ? If you are willing to take in an abandonded animal and feed and care for it as if it were your own why not do the same while it is still in its loving owners home? I think it is called Human compassion , I think all of us here have more than enough compassion for the horses but when it comes to people , it falls a little short . I think that is partly what's wrong with society today, the unwillingness to help a stranger in need.

And another human trait that I am sad to see is finger pointing . JMO though

edit to add : why are just horses considered a " luxury" isn't this true with any animal kept as a pet ???? I have paid more for some of my dogs than I have for a few of my well bred , double registered mini's . Not to mention some of the larger parrots. Does " luxury" mean that no lower income family has the right to own a dog ?

 

[Buckskin gal]

As I read this thread I also was thinking of the thread that Susan had started sometime back that was restarted today. I think there are people on the forum who think there are those of us who are being cruel to suggest stallions be gelded but what they aren't "getting" is we are trying to look out for the best interest of the horses and not so much about people. It is true,as said, that it is a personal right to have as many horses, or breed as many as one desires, but what some don't seem to ask themselves is it "right" for the horses to breed so many?Having rights and doing what is right are two different things. And this isn't just about the backyard breeder it is about all breeders for now I have been around long enough to see it is well known breeders who may breed for quality but don't always get it that add to the problem of unwanted horses and prices dropping. We all love our babies but these babies grow up and some end up not wanted. Mindy has now seen how auctions open eyes of those who go and see what is happening to minis. It makes no difference if they are double registered and very nice horses by well known breeders, they still can bring not much more than peanuts....and like Mindy said, some of the unregistered minis will bring as much or maybe more than the registered ones because it makes no difference to the buyer. Many times they will say "I am not intetested in the papers because it just costs me to register them." Many of these minis end up with "buyers" for resale or they end up with people who already have too many because they "didn't cost much" Sometimes I wonder if people who do a lot of breeding, be it for getting that show quality one or two or three, or because they can make some money, ever take the time to see where all your horses have ended up and what they are doing after say, 5 or 6 years. Do you care that the ones who are far less than show quality are being used to produce ever more or are being given away because somebody has grown tired of feeding them etc.? Personally I don't see an end to the over production of minis because too many are trying to promote more sales rather than seeing what they have already brought into the world is being well cared for and treated responsibly. We may need to find a way to take care of the ones who need it now but I do wonder sometimes if this doesn't perpetuate even more breeding by irresponsible people. It is getting to be just like the dog business...too many and then too many unwanted! As long as the breeder isn't held accountable for the ones they produce then someone else will have to take it on.

More people need to think of that horse and how it will be treated through out it's life rather than think of what is in it for themselves. Use your "rights" responsibly and make sure it is "right" for that living breathing animal that you bring into the world. Mary

Horses are a luxury and they have been since they were displaced by automation.

While having as many animals as one desires is a personal right, it is not a right to make them go without basic care from lack of foresight and planning for their welfare regardless of the circumstances we find ourselves.

 

[mondak]

You want to know why you rarely see a Warmblood or Baroque horse going through the auctions and being "dumped"? It is because their registries have keuring or 100 day stallion testing and mare preformance testings. If the horse doesn't pass...it is forced to be gelded or spayed in order to keep the breed clear of unwanted characteristics....Why don't any of the American based breeds have these??? Seems to me to be a great long term solution to the problem of "grade" horses. I know this wouldn't help the issue at hand but it is a solution. I mean as diluted as the market is right now, my friend is selling Andulasians and Half Andulasians for 10k and up and these horses are as close to perfect as I have seen. Just my two cents..

Courtney

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

There is a solution to this problem but NO ONE wants to look at it. No one wants to use reason. $200 to have a horse put down??? SOMEONE is making money out of putting them down. You think that $200 buys a more humane death than a $2.oo bullet? (not sure what a bullet costs, I haven't bought any lately.) The $200 just makes YOU feel better about it.
Too many horses being produced??? You want to save all those who are not the quality to deserve reproduction and WILL reproduce because they have been saved. I was recently looking for a stallion and received lots of replies. One in particular did not have the pattern I was looking for and I didn't give it a second glance. I saw another picture from a different angle later in an ad and he had definate dwarf characteristics, but was being advertised as being stallion material.

Being shipped to slaughter certainly has its drawbacks, but is better than being left to starve. On another forum I copied a quote from another poster;

QUOTE

...my state has a NO KILLER statute in place -- you can get a very stiff fine and jail time for selling an animal for slaughter in this state.

edited to add: When I first moved here 14 years ago, nobody could afford to buy horses at the livestock auctions due to out-of-state "killer buyers". SO the state ag. dept. stepped in and shut them down - now we have to GIVE horses away because they are so many.

Its quite simple, you allow horse slaughter. The unwanted, neglected, and undesirable are disposed of. Do some of them suffer? Of course. But not more than they would by starving. The quality of what is left improves and the prices go up because because the surplus is removed.

I know there are some on here who will think I am terribly cruel for suggesting such a thing. I think it is terribly cruel to continue to perpetuate the problem by not providing a way for disposal of the unwanted.

Some on here will flame me. I guess that is OK if it makes you feel better. I have found this neat little way to block replies from those who NEVER agree with me and have used it a couple of times. It helps to keep my blood pressure down.

No flame here.. I agree with you 100%!!

 

[Minimor]

I think that is partly what's wrong with society today, the unwillingness to help a stranger in need.

As I see it, what is wrong with society today is the belief by so many people that everyone else owes them--the attitude that "it's not my fault, I'm not to blame for my problems, therefore everyone else should look after me because my problem is everyone else's fault"

Does " luxury" mean that no lower income family has the right to own a dog ?

Not if they cannot afford to feed it or give it proper veterinary care. Like Mary said, people need to use their rights responsibly and think what is right for the animal. We have very much an "I want" society--everyone figures they have the right to have the things that they want, even if they cannot afford those things.

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

I think the main question was missed by most here . Please correct me Stormy if I am wrong. This is not about over population or an uncaring owner letting their horses starve. It is about caring , loving, family homes that may be stressed financially already by the slow economy and now with hay prices doubling or more in some areas , some just can not afford to buy the hay needed . It does not mean that they wish or want to dump their beloved pets on someone else . Sure if the mini market was not so flooded the animals could be sold easily enough but it does not mean that these people would want to sell . They just need help at this difficult time . If you have extra hay and will not use it , would it be so bad to GIVE to someone in desperate need of it to help them keep their beloved pet ? If you are willing to take in an abandonded animal and feed and care for it as if it were your own why not do the same while it is still in its loving owners home? I think it is called Human compassion , I think all of us here have more than enough compassion for the horses but when it comes to people , it falls a little short . I think that is partly what's wrong with society today, the unwillingness to help a stranger in need.

And another human trait that I am sad to see is finger pointing . JMO though

edit to add : why are just horses considered a " luxury" isn't this true with any animal kept as a pet ???? I have paid more for some of my dogs than I have for a few of my well bred , double registered mini's . Not to mention some of the larger parrots. Does " luxury" mean that no lower income family has the right to own a dog ?

Do you really think a horse just dumped on someone's property was in a "loving, caring home" to begin with? Being in financial trouble, or low income for that matter, does not absolve someone of their responsibility to do what is in the best interest of that animal. I know plenty of lower income people who would never dream of just dropping one of their pets off somewhere and would do whatever they needed to do to find a good home if they couldn't afford to keep them. There are so many other alternatives to consider instead of abandonment: rehoming through rescues, contacting local horse clubs who could network for you to find another home, forums like this one could provide resources and ideas, even a chance to find a home through an auction would be more ethical than just dumping them off to suffer whatever fate might befall them. Get the word out and the possibilities are endless but you have at least make an attempt. If a low income family doesn't have the means to provide basic care while it is their "right" to have an animal, as I said, it is NOT their right to neglect it's basic needs, food, shelter and medical care when necessary.

Would I would prefer that they keep the animal? Heck yes! Animals get extremely attached to their owners and it's a tradgedy for them to be separated. I would help them do it and have on several occasions throughout the years so don't be doing any finger pointing at me about not being compassionate towards my fellow man. When that failed I have taken in many animals from people who couldn't afford to keep them and have rehomed them. I have 3 rescue horses of my own that would have been on some European dinner plate by now and have donated thousands of hours and dollars to horse rescue orgs, bought more tons of hay I can count, paid vet bills, had sick and irrepairably crippled horses euthanized and hauled and yes it makes me CRAZY that someone would nonchalantly abandon their horse on someone's property. The overabundance of horses rescues take in is overwhelming and most came from irresponsible, uncaring owners who didn't give a wit what happened to them just as long as they didn't have to deal with it. So yes I get hot under the collar when someone is irresponsible and doesn't bother to think any further than what they desire for the moment and make those of us who DO care handle it for them. No one really knows for certain why these horses were abandoned but the fact is that they were abandoned. If there were registration papers then the owner could possibly be traced and help given if it's truly a case of hardship. Was that ever attempted, I wonder?

As for slaughter, horses have been starving in someone's back pasture for as long as I can remember even when it was available. Slaughter won't stop cruelty and neglect and it never will. Only a change in attitudes and people doing their best to do the right thing ever will.

edited for crappy spelling

 

[mad for mini's]

I guess I should have explained further about the luxury thing , no matter what income , if you own a pet it is a luxury, if you get a pet and can afford to take care of it at that time great ! but things happen sometimes that are out of our control that makes it impossible to keep caring for the animal.

As for just dumping them off somewhere and being in loving homes to start with , yes I do believe that can happen . A horse is not like a dog that you can take to a Humane Society or find a suitable home quickly so if a home with well cared for horses gets a few dropped off at their farm then I have to think that the people that did the dropping thought that their horses would be in good hands.

But still missing the question here ! What can we do now to help those in need now ? In any natural disaster things are organized to help needy families , with the shortage of hay and outragous prices in some areas what can we do now to help those people in need ? Are people willing to donate and organize to help neighbors in crisis ?

 

[Jill]

You want to know why you rarely see a Warmblood or Baroque horse going through the auctions and being "dumped"? It is because their registries have keuring or 100 day stallion testing and mare preformance testings. If the horse doesn't pass...it is forced to be gelded or spayed in order to keep the breed clear of unwanted characteristics....Why don't any of the American based breeds have these??? Seems to me to be a great long term solution to the problem of "grade" horses. I know this wouldn't help the issue at hand but it is a solution. I mean as diluted as the market is right now, my friend is selling Andulasians and Half Andulasians for 10k and up and these horses are as close to perfect as I have seen. Just my two cents..

Courtney

This is something I agree with in concept very much. It's really along the lines of what I've been saying and others not appreciating -- too many people are breeding poor quality animals.

There are a lot of people aiming for nothing more than just a foal, or maybe just a nicely colored foal. When even national champion x national champion can produce pet quality, I don't know why anyone would breed stallions and mares that are not superior quality. Buyers are getting smarter and smarter and not "a lot" of people want to buy pet quality compared to the number of pet quality to be had.

The above added to the fact that so many people who own horses cannot afford to own horses and no wonder there are so many sad situations around.

 

[ctgponies]

Seems to me to be a great long term solution to the problem of "grade" horses.

I am a pleasure rider and trail rider. I have 2 "grade" riding horses that I wouldn't trade for the world. I paid $450 for one of them who was lame due to an owner's stupidity. I can't afford a $10K horse nor would I pay that for what I do. I understand the breeding for quality issue but some of the "lesser" stock make great horses too.

Slaughter is not as much of an option which has driven prices down. There are very few, if any, "kill buyers" left at our local auctions.

I went to a local auction last week. Almost every mini or donkey offered was a stud and the few that weren't were bred mares. Some were registered, some not. It didn't matter price-wise. The riding horses, registered or not, were selling for really low prices, some under $100. One horse dealer was bidding on anything under $500.

I'm doing what I can by taking home what I can. I've also contacted CMHR to discuss being a foster home if we can do it. I agree that this needs to be a discussion about what we all can do rather than an argument about good breeding.

 

[wendy4mini]

I have done and continue to do horse rescue. A common misconception is that only poorly bred and mean horses are neglected. My first rescue was with an horse rescue in Tennessee when 41 horses were being seized including a couple of minis. Once the horses were sorted and I had the minis in a small area where I could see them, I recongized two of the horses. One, Brewers Moon Dust a National Champion stallion and a sire of National Champions and an appaloosa mare. Moony was a given a 10% chance of recovery by the attending vet that day. I had the extreme pleasure of having Moony in our family for almost 3 years until his passing due to age related problems. I tell this story because any horse regardless of bloodlines or show record can end up in bad situation. I hope that owners will look past the cute foal that they can sale and think about that same foal as a 20 yr old horse and ponder on what owner will want that horse then.

 

[Carolyn R]

I am pro "humane euthinasia" when the situation warrants it. I agree that there are too many quality and sub standard horses out there.

I applaud those that have big and little farms alike and have NO PROBLEM telling a potentail buyer this is a pet quality animal, this is a "fun show" animal, and this is a perspective regional show quality animal....I am not saying that you have to show an animal in order to breed it, but if you think that obvious things would prevent it from ever showing (bite, legs, poor quality all together, or just plain unhealthy or unsound) THEN DON"T BREED IT JUST BECAUSE IT HAS A UTERUS.

What I do have a problem with is people that say sure this horse can be bred, but don't say THIS HORSE CAN BE BRED BUT THIS HORSE SHOULD NOT BE BRED!!!!!

When new mini owners look for a reputable breeder, they are expecting to be given reputable advice. I know there is a sucker born every minute, but I feel that there are those that know better and they are promoting and marketing sub standard animals as top quality. They are selling to unknowledgable people (who should do their homework) who trust or were referred to such a breeder. I am not talking about squirrely back woods auction house breeders that don't trim, vaccinate or worm, there are people I am sure we have all come in contact with that we expected to have better standards.

Unfortunately, the cycle continues. Why does the new owner breed the poor quality animal, or even worse yet, why does the new owner ask the accomodating breeder to breed the mare before the sale is finalized, because they believe they bought a QUALITY animal from a REPUTABLE breeder who was only concerned with the BOTTOM LINE.

All in all, yes, help out where and when you can, but make sure you are responsable enough to have the ability to take care of what you own in the process.

Breeders need to be selective and honest to them selves and others when it comes down to the quality of animal they are considering breeding.

Be honest with your buyers!!!!!!!

All you have in the end is your integrity, if you lose that you don't have much!!!!

 

[Chamomile]

One problem is that EVERYONE that is breeding thinks their horses are the best and SHOULD be bred. There is a post on this forum right now about how important it is to breed what YOU like and pshaw to those who don't like it. While I understand this thinking, I'm not entirely sure it's the way to go either. As stated before that is why I am not breeding any longer. If I have a foal in the years to come it will be strictly for my enjoyment. I have been in the miniature horse industry for only 7 years, and I've had 4 foals in all that time. My Mom and grandparents got into it as well, but that is their business. I make sure I put my nose in there if I think a breeding won't work or isn't in the best interest of the horses... but it's really their decision, just as it's anyone's on here what and who to breed.

While I think having the testing and only approved stallions and mares can be bred, is a great idea, how is that going to differ from the show ring? What about the horse that is HOF in halter and is a two time national champion, going out and taking a 4 or 5th ribbon at a local show? Or visa versa... a local Champion, sweeping the local shows, then going to Nationals and bombing? Do people take that colt home and not breed it because one judge decided it wasn't as great as the other judges? NO! There will always be "reasons" why that horse MUST be bred. And mostly people get angry with the judges and say they just don't know what they are doing. It's a never ending circle...

But back to the original post. I just don't understand what all the finger pointing is about on here!? Why are people taking this so personally? I have read every single post and more than once I've read ' don't be doing any finger pointing at me about not being compassionate towards my fellow man.' I haven't read any real finger pointing, except my own when I asked Jill a few questions about her post, which I now understand a bit better. The original poster did not come on here and say "so and so isn't doing anything to help the situation" Nor did she say that if you choose to not donate money or time you aren't doing your part.

Many people have come on and given ideas of ways to help and those taking offense, say they are doing some of those same things. Let's not get so personal and put meaning where none is meant. Let's pull together as a strong, loving community, which I've seen this forum do many many times when someone is in need. This time lots of someones are in need!! And there are many many ways to help. Debs gave a great idea when she mentioned the Last Chance auction is coming up. Look in your horse shed and see if there are things you could donate to the cause. Look around the house and see if there are things you can donate to the cause. Check out the auction and bid on something you need or like and help the cause. Go to your local Humane Society and offer to dog walk, go in and pet some kitties, offer to hang up posters, ect. It starts with something small and grows from there. All we need to do is get busy!

Even if you go out and share information with people. Put a page on your website about how to properly care for a miniature horse, what they need as far as nutrition, or simply what you do in your feed program. Put a page on your site that talks about horses in need with links to charities and rescues. I don't look at like I'm shouldering others responsibilities, I feel that by looking at it like that, it's an excuse to blow off the problem. The horses didn't choose their lives, we did. We decided to breed that stallion to that mare...

As for the statement that only people that don't care would buy horses and then not be able to feed them... that's is simply not the truth. Yesterday we found out that my husband has lost his job. It is a very scary time for me right now. We may loose our house. I'm lucky enough that if I don't have too many horses my Mom can help me care for them until we get back on our feet. But really something like this can happen to anyone. Even if you think you have planned ahead, how can you know when something this shattering can happen? How can you plan ahead?? Luckily I have managed to find great homes for most of my sale horses and I have a little money in savings for feed through the winter. I'm just saying it's not only horrible people that have unfortunate things happen in their lives. And it's not horrible people that have horses for sale because it's the best for all involved.

 

[mondak]

I am a pleasure rider and trail rider. I have 2 "grade" riding horses that I wouldn't trade for the world. I paid $450 for one of them who was lame due to an owner's stupidity. I can't afford a $10K horse nor would I pay that for what I do. I understand the breeding for quality issue but some of the "lesser" stock make great horses too.

It doesn't matter how great a horse does at these kuering, they will still produce one or two offspring that will not pass the next one. If that was true then the breeding world would become very utopian and there would be no need for the testings. The ones that do not pass are spayed or gelded and (in most cases) go on to become excellent youth, pleasure horses for someone. Just because the horses do not pass the testings it is not a death sentence for it but it is saying that this horse is not to be bred. The testings regulate the industry and I really don't want to hear the soap box on "lesser" horses making great ones because EVERY horse I own is because no one else wanted it and (especially my riding gelding) I would trade none of them for ANY "papered, wonderful, excellent horse" as mine are perfect to me

: .

Courtney

 

[Jill]

One problem is that EVERYONE that is breeding thinks their horses are the best and SHOULD be bred.

That is very true but some people have / do put their horse where their mouth is (I mean show them at registry shows and find out if they're all that or not and once you do know, then maybe you can tell if horses are that quality even if unshown).

To date, I've had 2 miniature foals born and that was from mares I purchased in foal. I'll expect my first home bred foals, as many as five, in 2008 which will mare my 9th year of owning minis (longer if you count full size horses).

Additionally, I try and set an example by GELDING even nice nice NICE colts and stallions. With the exception of my first mini (who is driving pet), none of my geldings are not good enough to be stallions.

I'm not perfect at all and I do not have the best horses out of all in the country, but I have put so much effort in making sure all my breeding stock is good show quality (and that involved making some emotional choices regarding which horses I would continue to own).

I'm willing to help out and Ih ave helped out with rescues in terms of donations and I would do what I can to help with a drop off, which would be to try and place it in a home. Like I said, I'd be skeptical that I could find a home for one w/o papers though.

What I've said maybe makes me sound like a snob. But I know that years ago, it was people making statements like I have made here that helped me to evaluate my horses and what they should and should not do (breed, show, whatever....).

 

[Buckskin gal]

What Shirley says is my thoughts exactly! "As for slaughter, horses have been starving in someone's back pasture for as long as I can remember even when it was available. Slaughter won't stop cruelty and neglect and it never will. Only a change in attitudes and people doing their best to do the right thing ever will."

Slaughter is an easy way out of horse ownership. If every breeder of horses would have to deal with putting each and every animal down that they produce, themselves, or pay to have it done they may think twice about breeding so many.

There is so very much good insight in what many are saying here. Those of us who have seen the situation for what it is, knows it is not just the poor quality horses that are being bred that are making the problem. Many breeders who aim for quality are still breeding way too many horses for the market to handle. True there are those who say they have no problem in selling what they breed but there are others who are having trouble getting the price they used to out of quality horses. It makes no difference if we are breeding for quality or not, there are those who get dumped. Hard to believe that a Reserve National Fururity Champion and Top Ten National Champion get sold through an auction, but it does happen! Many minis get "dumped" at auctions because the owners/breeders can't sell them outright. Think about this when you want to produce 10, 20, 30 or more babies a year ....will you be responsible for each and every one of them? Mary

 

[Katiean]

OK, So what I am hearing is that if an miniature horse is dumped, It must be "one of poor quality that some backyard breeder produced" and now it needs care because it has been dumped. I am very sorry but that is not true. I know of a woman here that sold a very nice very well bred 4 yr old stud for $600. She had paid something like $3000 for the horse when she bought him. The thing was she had gone through divorce and could no longer take care of him. Did that mean the horses quality had gone down? NO!! It only means things changed for the owner and she was thinking of the horse and dumped him for a very low price. If she would have been unable to sell him I am sure she would have given him away. I also know there are people that will "take advantage" of others that want to help. I had someone do that to me when I was trying to help them feed their kids. They then spent what little money they did have on beer. I do not believe I would be inclined to give a hand out to people having a problem feeding their horses. I would however, take horses in. I have done that in the past. The horses are then NOT returned to the original owner that I took the horses in from.