Horse dumping

[Witts Mini Horse Ranch]

I had 4 minis given to me last year, because the owner had lost interest and due to the expense of hay.

They had not been wormed, seen a farrier, or vacinated in a couple of years, double registered, but only had thier AMHA papers. 2 mares, a foal, and now my main herd sire (This person was not his breeder). I had bought all I could from him, and he continued to lower his price I still just couldn't come up with the money and be able to afford hay, as much as I wanted to help these horses......finally he asked that I just come get them and yes it was expensive to get the paperwork caught up on them. I was able to sell the colt to a good home, these horse have good bloodlines, but even if they did not, they still would have been loved and cared for.

I have in the pasted rescued a couple of retired TB race horses, the last one was 15 years old and had just been gelded and throw out to pasture and forgot about. It is just the way I am, I cannot turn my back on a straving, uncared for animal. And, the joy and warmth I feel making a difference in just one animal's life and the love I recieve in return, is the ultimate happiness for me. I know some people are able to think with thier minds, I let my heart lead me.....and we all do with a little less.

Don't even ask me how many dogs I have took in and the vet bills getting them neutered. But, I think I have a pack now and they are not going to allow any more strays close enough, for me to see them. Also, don't have to worry about wild dogs or coyotes brothering my horses.

Please don't flame me or what ever you call it, I get it enough from family! I just can't help myself, it's just the way I am and have always been.

And, I don't bred more than I can keep if I don't sale, and have learned from the past to try and find out as much as I can about a person interested in one of my babies. I owe that to them and more.

Ok, I'm done.....sorry I don't post much....usually just read and keep my opinions to myself.....but this is one that hits my heart and soul.

 

[mininik]

Whoa, wait. I'm supposed to "get real" by suggesting horses are humanely euthanised when you're telling me families won't be able to afford the cost of feed over that of a bullet or vet call and disposal? I'm sorry, I just don't believe there is enough charity out there for these poor horses.

 

[Margo_C-T]

I, too, would consider humane euthanasia over choices which might mean not knowing where/how a horse might end up. It is a HARSH choice to have to make, but when you really have no idea if you can COUNT ON a 'new home' to be a GOOD home, or whether the person who SWEARS that they will keep, love, and properly-care-for a horse forever means it at ALL, or ???, or ???, then I for one might well opt for the hard choice of at LEAST knowing that all of the horse's life WAS a good one, and that there will NEVER be suffering in its future. It is important to remember that horses have no concept of the 'future', or of how long they 'should' continue to live, or 'have' lived--so it is not a psychological 'cruelty' of depriving them of (who knows how many?) days/months/years of a future life. It is terrible for us then, but better that than the possibility that the horse might be faced with suffering that you have NO way of alleviating.

Food for thought. I certainly agree about not continuing to feel that "YOU" are the one who has every 'right' to continue breeding as many as you can, whether as 'big time' OR 'small potatoes' breeder, whether with horses you believe are ALL of top breeding quality, or just whatever you have, for a few bucks here and there. I haven't produced a foal for 6-7 years(bred one mare 5 years ago; the foal of 4 years ago was lost to not being able to get out of the sac). I am doing my BEST to continue to keep all the minis I own, even though a couple have absolutely NO job here. I have a VERY nice APHA mare that I am agonizing over parting with, but likely will have to, in one form or another, before much longer--a large part of the reason being that if I do,I can much better afford to buy feed, etc., for the others....This is a ' between a rock and a hard place' situation, and I do NOT like it, but I am the one who will HAVE TO decide.

Margo

 

[Marty]

I think the goverment does help in many situtations. I remember seeing the news when they were dropping round bails by chopper into farmer's fields to help keep them from starving.

That being said, maybe if the First Lady didn't spend a half a million on each Christmas tree in the White House, or the Pres didn't spend $5,000 on a toilet seat, they could do more in helping out too.

I also agree with RuffnTuff that if everyone would breed just one less horse it would help the surplus situation. And I do believe that has already happened. Right here on the forum, in reponse to another thread a while back, many said they have not bred as many as they could have this year. That's a start.

I want to (edit) that this goes for big horse breeders as much as minis ones.

 

[Jill]

Whoa, wait. I'm supposed to "get real" by suggesting horses are humanely euthanised when you're telling me families won't be able to afford the cost of feed over that of a bullet or vet call and disposal? I'm sorry, I just don't believe there is enough charity out there for these poor horses.

I actually agree with you, sadly. It's not a perfect world. There are not enough good homes. It is better to humanely put down an animal than to let it be in a home that cannot provide the proper care and food.

As for me personally, I've said what I think part of the problem is. Anyone who thinks I take breeding lightly doesn't know me... I got my first mini in 1998. Have had lots of show wins in breed classes and expect my first ever foal crop in 2008. Up until now, my only two foals were from mares I bought in foal (including the one that was carrying my own stallion's foal).

What I think is that for every person breeding for show quality horses, there are a dozen breeding poor quality and I realize not many agree with me but that's what I think. For every one trying to produce quality there are a dozen just breeding because they were able to scrounge up some in tact miniatures.

I am happy there are quality breeders breeding horses every year. I appreciate good horses and if not for breeders, I wouldn't have my own favorite horses. The same is true for many of you here.

PS I really feel my pointing out about the over production of pet quality minis is along the lines of if someone said my horse has worms and a cruddy looking coat. What kind of brush can I use to make him shine? And not saying "deworm him".

 

[kaykay]

Ive tried to stay off this thread but as many of you know this is close to my heart and I do feel this is going to be a huge problem come winter for CMHR. Every horse deserves to be treated humanely no matter what is pedigree or paper status. Also I want to remind everyone that we have taken in horses in CMHR that have about every farm name on them, big and little. The next horse CMHR takes in could be one you bred and sold. Happens all the time. I myself just found out that my hay supplier who PROMISED to keep me in hay all year recently sold the hay out of state. (Last Feb I bought his entire barn of hay with the agreement that he would not sell this years crop to anyone but me) So I myself am now scrambling to make preparations for winter. It can happen to ANYONE.

What can you do? And I dont mean these items just for CMHR you could help any rescue this way

Volunteer to be a foster home

Donate money

Volunteer to help transport rescues

Volunteer your time to help raise money (i know not everyone has money to give!)

Geld your colts! (cmhr has spent a very large amount just paying to geld all the stallions that come in)

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

The sad thing is it is a cycle not new to this year and one that is hard to stop. YOu dont want to give money to those who cant afford to feed horses and yet they continue to breed.

I also agree with jill that in minis more then others a unpapered mini is less valuable on the open market then papered ones.

Big horses not so much a horse with a job and good at it has a better shot without papers.

Raven has a 20 yr old pony 13.3 hands no papers kinda ugly to be honest.. but she is the perfect beginner pony and i could re sell her with no issues to someone else looking for a walk trot babysitter pony (of course raven would not let me sell her but I have had offers on her )

However... the same cant be said for a "pet Mini" simply cause the market of people looking for them is not as large.

 

[Jill]

That's right, Lisa. I agree about big horses. I have owned two big horses. One I had to have put down this summer and the other I still have. Neither has papers and I could care less. If I ever want another full size horse, to me, papers would not be something I'd care about. But for minis, it's a must for me and for most people... Maybe not when they first get into minis but in a lot of those cases, within time, it's important to them as well to have papered minis.

 

[Minimor]

I don't expect "you" to have to care for someone elses unwanted animals any more than I am able to at this point in my life (although I have done so many many times in the past with both the big and the little horses) what I am saying is that instead of complaining about the market and the problems, instead of adding to the problem by breeding more foals, instead of taking someones unwanted horse and dumping it at a rescue, we all need to step up and help! As I stated donate time or money to rescues, sanctuaries and such.

I will tell you why I do not donate to the SPCA or the rescues--none of them, not the horse ones, not the dog & cat ones: Because after all the money I have spent on neutering & spaying & doctoring (& even euthanizing when it's the best thing to do! )all the stray cats, a few dogs & a few charity case horses there is no money left over to donate to other people's rescue efforts. Looking after the throwaway animals I've acquired here is my own form of rescue work and I'm not leaving them to do without so that I can donate to someone else's rescue effort. If anyone thinks that makes me a terrible, horrible person, worse than you who does donate to rescues, well, you're free to think what you like. I'm tired of everyone's problems being blamed on everyone else!
If the guy down the road chooses to breed 100 horses a year & now suddenly finds himself with no hay, that really isn't my fault. I have the horses I want & need; I've bred some mares & gotten the foals that I want for myself. I'm not putting my foals on the market, so I'm not contributing to the glut of horses that is already on the market. If I didn't raise these foals for myself, I still wouldn't be buying horses from the guy down the road with his 100 foals a year, so my horses are not taking anything away from him. And yes, if something were to happen to me, there are provisions for my horses so that doesn't really come into play on the glutted market either. Am I concerned about the horses that don't have enough to eat? Of course. I loathe the people that can't be bothered to look after their horses or whatever animals. And in many cases it is that the person just can't be bothered to look after their animals any more. Hay gets scarce & more expensive, and some people just aren't willing to give up their own toys in order to afford to care for their animals. I'll be darned if I'm going to give hay to someone that will take it & feed it to his horses & then turn around & lay out a big wad of money for the new boat he's been saving for the past few months.

Huh. Last winter a friend was out of hay for her 23 big horses. We tried to suggest names of some hay sellers that had hay for sale, and reasonable too. Guess what. She couldn't buy from any of those people because over the years she's bounced cheques to each and every one of them. Now how do you help someone like that, short of going & buying & hauling the hay to her? I sent help for the horses, but not for her.

 

[Chamomile]

Huh. Last winter a friend was out of hay for her 23 big horses. We tried to suggest names of some hay sellers that had hay for sale, and reasonable too. Guess what. She couldn't buy from any of those people because over the years she's bounced cheques to each and every one of them. Now how do you help someone like that, short of going & buying & hauling the hay to her? I sent help for the horses, but not for her.

Exactly! You did something for the HORSES. I could care less about the people not caring for their animals, it's the animals that I'm talking about. The kind of person that could sit in a nice warm house with more than enough to eat themselves and look out the window to see half starved horses, dogs, cats, isn't the kind of person that will listen to reason. They justify everything they do and say and don't see any wrong in it.

As for humanly putting down these horses, in the case that was here, my vet said the guy couldn't afford to have them put down at $200 a pop, then pay the meat truck $150 a horse... and I would cringe to think what it would have looked liked if this man had gone out and shot the 30 horses and let them lay. Granted the horses would have been out of their misery, but at what cost to the environment? He lived just outside of city limits, in one of the "Ranchett" subdivisions...

I'm afraid that there is no clear cut answer to this. All we can do is educate ourselves to the problem, and do what WE can to help, be it take in animals yourself, donate time or money to a rescue, or just spread the word about how to properly care for an animal. Sometimes, unfortunately, it is simply that the people just don't know that the horse is unhealthy. They don't know what a horse requires, they just don't understand and would be horrified to find that their horse is in pain.

 

[stormy]

The question is what can we do not what are we not going to do for whatever reason. I bred mares this year, now wish I had not. I did breed less, lot's less. I also have several "rescues" and have bought back more than one of my babies when times have become difficult for their new owners. I also donate to CMHR and try to donate to organizations handling animals during natural disasters. That is what I can do. This year I feel I need to find ways to do more, it is particularly bad in this area....

Would like to hear what we CAN do not what we won't or can't or what someone else should do.

 

[mininik]

To me this is like the disadvantaged who KEEP BREEDING so the rest of the world can find ways to support them. I guess taking responsiblity isn't considered something people can do these days...

 

[kaykay]

How did we make the leap from this question

I expect to see a huge number of hungry horses around us this winter. We are a large group, diverse, caring...what are we going to do?

to talking about the "disadvantaged"

You know what. Bad things happen to good people all the time. Life happens. People lose jobs, get sick, get divorced or a spouse dies.

Not everyone who has to give up a horse is a bad uncaring person!

I think the OP was just asking for ideas on how to help. If you dont want to help thats fine but lets try to keep this positive

 

[mininik]

My point is that not all people who get stuck in a bad position and need out should have horses to begin with. The "jump" from that to the disadvantaged isn't far, considering many of those people own pets. I doubt there's a person on this forum who wouldn't help someone who's a good caretaker that just got into a tight spot, but at some point people who own, breed and buy so many horses that they can't feed them due to the rain, or lackthereof need to get a grip on reality. I am the owner of ONE pony gelding for a reason. Sure, I'd love to have more ponies, but he is all I can take on responsibly at this point and can be sure he will have a place to go with proper care even if I am unable to provide for him at some point.

 

[Jill]

Nicole, I think you know we don't often see eye to eye but you are right on here in my opinion.

 

[susanne]

last time I checked, no animal needs a fancy pedigree to be loved.

Marty, I love you!

While pedigree, or lack thereof, is a reason NOT to breed, it is NOT an excuse not to help those that already exist. As people who love horses and play a role in bringing horses into the world -- either by breeding or by buying horses, thus creating a market -- we are morally obligated to do what we can.

Not everyone can do the same thing, but everyone can do something and help in our own way.

If you can't take more in...then give money and help those who can and do take them in.

If you don't have money to give, then volunteer your time.

If you don't have money nor time to volunteer, perhaps you can foster an animal.

I grew up in a very poor family, and after my father died my mother struggled to raise six kids on her own. Nonetheless, we never turned away any of the dogs and cats people dumped in our rural neighborhood. We always found a way. We didn't have much money, but we did have a large property and room in our hearts for many pets. It was what we could do.

As Stormy has said, "The question is what can we do not what are we not going to do for whatever reason." So true

Instead of acting defensively about what you cannot do, come up with something, no matter how small, that you CAN do.

There is always something we can do!

 

[ChrystalPaths]

:aktion033: Well said, Susanne. I'm not rich, I can afford what I have and if pushed a bit more if there was huge need. I try to donate "things" each and every time there is a rally or need or auction. That makes me feel better. CMHR's next auction is coming up.....now this is something we as equine advocates can help with. Donate something! Anything. Buy something from the auction. There will be hungry horses in America this year. Life can and does happen and many of the rescues and give aways are folks come on hard times. If I grew hay I'd donate, but I don't so I give what I can. Lots of us live on a budget in order to enjoy our mini equines. Look around the house, make something! Donate it to the "cause"...let us help. I will. I know many of you will also and that makes us a great group.

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

I don't think much will ever be done about problems such as this in the horse community, big or little, until attitudes change and to a great degree. I think that more people are developing conscience regarding what they produce here on the forum but not as much so in the horse world in general. As long as people think and pass down that attitude to their children that animals are not much more than a disposable commodity-not deserving of loyalty and respect, the status quo will be hard to change.

It's only when crisis hits do many even begin to think about what in the world to do with all their horses. To me that should be in the plan from the beginning so I find it hard to sympathize with those who find themselves in a pickle due to lack of planning. I don't know about others but I work darn hard to put away a few bucks each payday in my horse account so I at least have a bit of time to rehome them properly, if necessary. Sure I'd rather go out to a nice dinner at a fancy restaurant but I prefer to protect the things I love instead so I do without it. If they weren't an issue I'd probably be blowing through money like a drunken sailor, I'm sure. :bgrin

What will you, I mean the collective "you," do if you fall on hard times? Have you even gotten to the point yet of planning for the unimaginable? God forbid, but the potential is always there. It's definately a question that should be burning in every horse owner's mind.

It begins and ends with personal responsibility.

*Not making it someone else's problem because you can't afford feed prices or medical care for them, lose your income or get an illness and can't physically take care of them any longer. Plan ahead with insurance, savings, not taking on more animals than you can manage under all circumstances.

*Not breeding as many or at all when the market is down. If your foals are not flying off the shevles like hotcakes with people on wait lists for your next season, why are you still pumping out even a couple a year? That alone should tell you if you should be breeding at all, not just because your horses are "nice". Everyone here has "nice" horses but that doesn't mean they are broodworthy or it's the prudent thing to do in this day and age.

*Preparing for things like drought conditions. Find or form a co-op in your state so you have more buying power than a single person ever could. A co-op can afford to truck in feed from more plentiful areas when necessary to get over the inevitable hurdles that cycle from time to time. Now folks in many areas have known for a long time now that we would be facing problems due to the drought yet still went on their merry way breeding nonetheless and are now dumping their young stock at auction. To my knowlege, every state in the union has agricultual co-ops of some sort.

Horses are a luxury and they have been since they were displaced by automation.

While having as many animals as one desires is a personal right, it is not a right to make them go without basic care from lack of foresight and planning for their welfare regardless of the circumstances we find ourselves.

 

[Minimor]

Well said Shirley!! :aktion033:

 

[Marty]

I got to thinking about my trip to the rock quarry last week. The owner has over 150 quarter horses. He told me he has exposed around 60 mares this year for 2008 foals. Then he told me he took a few to the public auction last month and they didn't bring him much.....less than $400 a head. I asked why he kept breeding so many. His reponse was that "They have great bloodlines and need to be bred"............that's the mentality that is so very common everywhere.