Horse dumping

[ctgponies]

The testings regulate the industry and I really don't want to hear the soap box on "lesser" horses making great ones because EVERY horse I own is because no one else wanted it and (especially my riding gelding) I would trade none of them for ANY "papered, wonderful, excellent horse" as mine are perfect to me

:

Wow, that was kind of harsh. I understand that it regulates the "industry" (all of mine are gelded by the way - minis, pony and big horses). I'm just saying that "grade" horses can be really awesome horses as well. Mine are not "the best" but are kind and gentle enough for my daughter to handle which is more than I can say for some "well bred" horses.

The original post was "what can we as caring horse owners do"...

 

[ctgponies]

Ok, My wife is the one who normally posts on this and any other horse forums. I normally do not for just this reason. Not sticking to and answering the origninal post!

I have worked or have been involved with just about every aspect of the horse industry from racetracks, t-bred breeding facilities, show and sport ponies ect... I am new to miniature horses though. We mainly came to this forum for basic information about the breed because we were starting to rescue them from auctions, local farms where they were starved, and even some abandoned minis.

I hate to say it but I really have not picked up too much info from this site. It seems like a place for posting pictures, showing off, talking about shows, what you are going to wear to the shows, look at my new mini, breeding for a certain color or size (which adds to the original problem which started the post), or just complaining about just about anything.

It is hard to believe that the first response to the original post came off sooooooo snobby! That was just like saying no horse or any other animal without a pedigree is worth helping out.

Anyway, maybe all of the forum menbers come come up with a basic beginners care section for people with more basic questions like vet care, feeding, hay requirements, hoof care ect. Maybe giving people a little basic knowledge would help with horses being dumped. Please dont tell me it is not needed since I just noticed a post asking what a coggings test was and do I need one!

I AM REALLY SORRY IF THIS UPSETS OR HURTS ANYONES FEELINGS!!! It is only my opinion! I was going to be a bit more harsh and get more into the breeding for "standards" issue but I would have to answer to my wife as well!

Go ahead and bash away! But please don't pick on my typos!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Anyway, maybe all of the forum menbers come come up with a basic beginners care section for people with more basic questions like vet care, feeding, hay requirements, hoof care ect. Maybe giving people a little basic knowledge would help with horses being dumped. Please dont tell me it is not needed since I just noticed a post asking what a coggings test was and do I need one!

I AM REALLY SORRY IF THIS UPSETS OR HURTS ANYONES FEELINGS!!! It is only my opinion! I was going to be a bit more harsh and get more into the breeding for "standards" issue but I would have to answer to my wife as well!

Go ahead and bash away! But please don't pick on my typos!

No bashing here... There is a section called the best of the forum that has alot of basic care type of questions so you can search there if it is something you are looking for. Usually if not there you can ask here or PM or email someone you think might be able to help if you dont want to post the question on the forum.

Hope that helps a bit

 

[ctgponies]

God I can't type or spell to save my life! :no:

Thanks for not bashing! As a newbie to the mini breed and someone who is always looking for info maybe a section for basic mini care would be very helpful. I know there is a ton of people on this forum which would be of great help to others just getting started with the breed. While I have been around equines for a long time I am finding minis to be a whole different ball game! But a ton of fun and enjoyment!

 

[Chamomile]

ctgponies, the forum that Lisa mentioned does have a lot of info on driving, feeding and basic care. I have a little more info on my website and will be adding a page all about MY feeding program, and what works for my horses. You'll find that everyone has a different opinion about feeding these little guys and that alone can start quite a heated argument on here just as this post has! It's sad to hear that you haven't gotten much help from this forum. When I first joined... whenever that was... I got tons of info and help from people here. I've also made quite a few friends on this board! I've noticed mostly in the last year that it has turned into a finger pointing and people/horse bashing kind of place. You mostly have to have thick skin to post on here!

 

[ctgponies]

Thanks for the info. I did get some info from this board but it was a little hard to find. I do have a very thick skin as well as a very thick skull.

We have a pretty good feeding program for the little ones now with a bunch of help from my vet and a few local mini owners. My wife takes care of all of our horses feet and our vet is great. We mainly came to this forum because of the CMHR and are looking to get more involved with them. I just think that part of the problem with the dumped horses is the lack of education of new mini owners. I have seen for myself a local breeder which sells "pet quality minis" for 500.00 and less to people with no horse experience or any idea of how to care for them. I have even watched and stopped a family from loading a mini into the middle row of thier minivan which they were buying for thier kids to put in the yard.

 

[Buckskin gal]

No bashing from here!

: I am sorry you haven't found the forum to be all you would like it to be but hang in there and you will most likely find that someone is always ready to answer your questions and there is also the archieves to search through for info. It takes all kinds for the world to go around and sometimes we just have to get used to something new to appreciate it. We all have opinions and share them to make for a well rounded forum. There are people who enjoy pictures a whole lot , then there are people who like to talk about their wins, there are others who enjoy driving and willing to share info. ...it goes on and on but like I say, we aren;t all the same and that is what makes this forum a good place for all aspects of minis. I would be interested to know aht causes you to see the minis as a whole different ball game from other horses...also what brought you into owning the breed. Mary

God I can't type or spell to save my life! :no:

Thanks for not bashing! As a newbie to the mini breed and someone who is always looking for info maybe a section for basic mini care would be very helpful. I know there is a ton of people on this forum which would be of great help to others just getting started with the breed. While I have been around equines for a long time I am finding minis to be a whole different ball game! But a ton of fun and enjoyment!

 

[kaykay]

We mainly came to this forum because of the CMHR and are looking to get more involved with them.

thank you thank you thank you :aktion033:

 

[Minimor]

The original post was "what can we as caring horse owners do

In answer to that I would say that as caring horse owners we can make sure our own animals are looked after. If in addition to that anyone as an individual wants to donate hay or money to some down-on-their-luck horse owner, that's entirely up to each and every individual.
As I read it the original post also stated that the dumping of horses and all the down-on-their-luck owners are everyone else's problem. That part of it I still disagree with. I do not see that it is up to all other horse owners to look after their own animals plus the animals of everyone else.

If someone dumps a horse on me, that becomes my problem, and I would take responsibility for finding somewhere to send that horse. I would find somewhere for the horse to go; what I would not do is take it back to the owner and offer them hay or money so that they could keep the horse. I'd have a lot more respect for that owner if he/she had first come to me and asked if I would take that horse, or if I know someone that would, or could I offer/suggest help....and in that situation I would be much more inclined to offer help of some sort. Simply abandoning the animal is a cop out. People do need to take responsibility for themselves and their animals.

The horses I sent help for last winter--the help consisted of an animal care officer going to check on them. I don't know what came of it--if he helped them to find some feed or if the owners finally found some on their own--I do know that the horses are still all in the possession of the owners and this winter will no doubt be facing another lean, hungry winter.

There is no point in all of us finger pointing and saying that the problem is the people that are breeding indiscriminately--sure, that is a big part of the problem, but how do you stop your neighbor from breeding 100 mares a year? You won't stop him by giving him hay or money when he runs out of feed. You won't stop him by buying his horses at dirt cheap prices when he dumps them on the market--he'll just figure hey, I got enough to pay for the horses' keep this year, so I'll just raise another round of foals & I'll have next years feed supply paid for too. And yes, there are breeders who figure that if they sell a colt without papers for $300 then they have done okay--that pays for the mare's annual keep--they haven't made money at that price, but they haven't lost any either.

 

[mad for mini's]

Thank you Chamomile :aktion033: for your posts, I could just hug you !

I'm sorry about your husband loosing his job , I hope that you are able to get by OK . We are in a somewhat tight spot too , this is the first time in my life that I may not be able to make all the payments this month but my horses are taken care of before any bill is paid . I guess you have to be in the same boat to understand just how quickly things can go wrong.

Hoping things pick up for you soon

:

Just imagine if we could quit complaining and pointing fingers at each other long enough to organize a nationwide call for help to donate what is really needed by some right now , feed supplies ! Supporting the auction and CMHR and other rescues , helps the rescue of needy horses but what about the owners that are struggling right now ? What if we as a group could gather supplies and offer assistance to those individual owners who are in a bind now ?

Or we can just wait until they have no choice but to dump their horses somewhere , then you can complain about how much worse the horse auctions are and again how breeders are to blame .

:

 

[RockRiverTiff]

I would say that as caring horse owners we can make sure our own animals are looked after. If in addition to that anyone as an individual wants to donate hay or money to some down-on-their-luck horse owner, that's entirely up to each and every individual.

I entirely agree with this statement. I've been reading through this post for the last half hour. As always when I confront this issue, the feeling of helplessness is overwhelming. If you are able to do something, certainly you should, but not if it compromises your ability to care for your own animals. It seems obvious that that should be everyone's #1 priority, and there's no shame in that.

I think as horse lovers this is going to be an emotional topic, regardless of opinions, and we all feel compelled to defend ourselves--to prove that we have not contributed to this huge problem. There has been a lot of finger pointing, but the fact of the matter is this was not caused in the last month, year, or even decade. For every big breeder there are two dozen small ones, and we are all accountable. This is an epidemic that started with the large horses before minis ever came along, and with cats and dogs before them, and I have no idea how we're going to reverse that.

To get back to the topic, what am I personally going to do? I don't know. We've never bred for many minis, and our first generation of homebreds grew old with us and are now buried in our pastures. With as few foals as we breed, when we have one, we usually keep it. I don't live at the farm now, so I'm not going to burden my 75 year old grandmother with foster horses. When I move back in a few months, I would like to become involved in CMHR again, and HAHS (Hooved Animal Humane Society) and our local humane society, all of which I have been involved in before, but it's demanding at the best of times and depressing and exhausting at the worst. And while I am first and foremost a horse person, I know many people here are also cat people, dog people, humanitarians...how do you decide who or what to give to? All I can think is that if we each do what we can, the combined effort will get us moving in the right direction. On that note--I can't wait for CMHR's Thanksgiving drive this year.

 

[Shari]

The dumping of horses... is going to get worse and not just because of the hay problems.

I used to be able take in either abused or horses that the owners no longer could care for. Could only take in a couple a year because of space. I would not talk down on those that gave a horse to me..so I could feed it up and find a good home. Bad things happen to good people and I will not judge them.

Of course you get the few that shouldn't have children let alone pets too...but If you get rude to such people..one is less likely to be able to help said animal. I know it is very hard for me to bite my tongue but in the best interest of the animal I did.

Now, because of my physical problems.. I can no longer take in any ones elses horses. Yes,, I do have more land but my body can no longer handle it. My first responsibilty is to the horses and animals that are part of my family now.

 

[Paige]

I don’t normally post on here but since this an issue that is basically in my own backyard I’d like to add my two cents. First off I don’t believe you can find a solution to a problem without discussing the issues that have caused it. Whether you believe the issue is related to over breeding, the economy, the ban on horse slaughter, or owner irresponsibility it all boils down to what you as an individual feels passionate about and where you can take that energy. If all you can or want to do is be a responsible horse owner and take good care of your own animals you are way ahead of a lot of people! Personally, owner responsibility and education is what light’s my flame and as my significant other says “perfectly paranoid is perfectly prepared.”

As for the economy and job market in this area, it has been in a downward spiral for several years so no one who lives here should be surprised at where we are at today. As for the drought, it’s a simple fact mother nature isn’t always our friend and once again people need to be thinking ahead as far how many animals they can afford to feed and whether they are going to bred those mares. Even the best made plans don’t always work out. For example: I purchased all of my hay early in the year for $2.00 a bale but unfortunately the barn leaked and I am now replacing the moldy hay with $5.00 bales, plus I have the added expense of having to have the barn roof completely redone. Luckily, I have a horse fund for such emergencies but could I handle another horse if someone kindly dropped one off? No. So what am I going to do about it in answer to the question Stormy originally asked: First I’m working on getting the word out that this is an issue in our area and exploring what other options horse owners may have to dumping their animals; second I’m assisting with a program at work which will include an opportunity for individuals to learn about responsible pet ownership and a chance to donate to organizations that assist animals, and lastly, I’m planning a 6 week program which will assist individuals who have lost their jobs find a new career. All 3 of these ideas resulted from reading this sometimes heated post so thanks to all who contributed to lighting the flame!

 

[chandab]

God I can't type or spell to save my life! :no:

Thanks for not bashing! As a newbie to the mini breed and someone who is always looking for info maybe a section for basic mini care would be very helpful. I know there is a ton of people on this forum which would be of great help to others just getting started with the breed. While I have been around equines for a long time I am finding minis to be a whole different ball game! But a ton of fun and enjoyment!

While it isn't the forum, the LB main website has a mini horse facts and care section that you may find helpful.

http://www.lilbeginnings.com/links/info/

Also, there is a search feature at the top of the page, so you may find the answer to your questions there. I know when I first came to the board, and even now I use the search to find information. Sometimes your question has been answerred many times previously.

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

I guess I should have explained further about the luxury thing , no matter what income , if you own a pet it is a luxury, if you get a pet and can afford to take care of it at that time great ! but things happen sometimes that are out of our control that makes it impossible to keep caring for the animal.

As for just dumping them off somewhere and being in loving homes to start with , yes I do believe that can happen . A horse is not like a dog that you can take to a Humane Society or find a suitable home quickly so if a home with well cared for horses gets a few dropped off at their farm then I have to think that the people that did the dropping thought that their horses would be in good hands.

But still missing the question here ! What can we do now to help those in need now ? In any natural disaster things are organized to help needy families , with the shortage of hay and outragous prices in some areas what can we do now to help those people in need ? Are people willing to donate and organize to help neighbors in crisis ?

Regarding the point that the dumper probably thinks the horses are in good hands is pretty high risk don’t you think? If the area is devoid of feed or the person struggling financially with their own horses this could be the last straw to have to unwillingly take on another mouth to feed. They could easily be the next ones in crisis as the result of such thoughtlessness.

I don't think I missed the question at all, if you are referring to me, and thought I addressed it by suggesting that a big part of it at the core is not being part of the problem ourselves by breeding more potential unwanteds in a depressed market and planning ahead--even forming a co-op. I have been in an informal co-op ever since getting my big horses because it costs as much to feed one as it does 4-5 minis. It’s not hard to find others who want to pay a lot less for good quality feed in bulk and split it up. I’ve bought as little as a few bales to a ton or more. There is no minimum that people can take advantage of if the group is more than just a couple of people. We also look for deals on de-wormers, tack and do group vaccinations for vet and farm call discounts. However I haven’t seen see a big rush from people in need to join us or one of the many other groups around who do the same thing. Our horse community is a very small world around here and not a single one of us is at the same facility yet we still managed to find each other through word of mouth.

Just because someone is in need doesn’t mean they are helpless. If we can do it why can’t others in their own communities across the country? Few things in this world are free, except opinions, so if someone has made the decision to have horses they inevitably have to pay for their care but it can be done in a ways that don’t break the bank. Plenty of us here already do contribute in our own way, even if that is just running their lives in a way that doesn’t burden others.

I have to agree wholeheartedly with Minimor :aktion033: , you can’t expect to create change by throwing money at people if they are unwilling to change the way they operate. It can become and endless cycle of dependence for some. I am not out to reform others but will certainly help anyone willing to help themselves in the process.

Wow Paige I didn't see your post until after I posted but that's what I call doing something! Excellent ideas! :worshippy:

 

[bevann]

I think that we need to be creative and educational in our promotion of Miniature Horses and responsible care for them.Our club in this area THE DELMARVA MINIATURE HORSE CLUB, which I started almost 18 years ago does many Equine events and we hand out literature regarding cost to keep 1 for a year, housing and fencing requirements, good reference books and where to get them, etc. We also inform people that just because Minis are ofter dog sized they are still a horse and have much different needs.We also encourage them to join our club and attend our educational clinics. I do may farm tours here,day cares, home schooled groups etc, and I used to do it for free.Now when people ask I am always glad to do it, but I tell them they must leave me a donation(they choose the amount) and I will see that a rescue group or animal shelter that takes in equines will get the money.Most people are very happy to do so.I even had 1 man from NY who brought his family and he was so impressed with the tour and the info I provided he left me $100.I take cash or checks made out to the rescue.They have fun and horses benefit. I also have chosen NOT to breed any of my mares for 2008 and maybe not ever again.I sell my horses with a right of first refual to buy them back and I go visit them in their new homes.I just took back 2 beautiful little 4 yr old mares that had bones sticking out.An angel found me and she has a therapy program using Minis so these 2 girls will be going to a "forever home" I hope and making some kids very happy.I feel very strongly as a breeder that I AM RESPONSIBLE for the welfare of these animals and I must do my very best to insure a good quality of life for them.I have also taken back another 2 yr old mare that was out of my mare and she has just been shuffled around since she was 4 months old - 6 owners since birth and most of the time she has been here with me.I have bought her twice to insure her well being.I will be very careful where she goes this time.

 

[MBennettp]

This is a subject that I feel I must comment on.

Horse dumping in this country is a very real problem. The rescue organizations are overrun with horses that the owners could not care for any longer.

I personally have been given 2 horses this year, neither are culls, both are double registered and either could be shown and do well (not just my opinion but several show people have seen them)

Just because I do not show does not mean that I have inferior animals. There are actually a lot of us that don't show but have horses that are definitely show quality. I don't have a single horse that is not registered and of all of them, I have very little purchase money in them, most were rescues.

Every person does not have someone to show their horses for them so they can brag and make everybody sick of hearing about how their horses are so much better than everyone elses. Showing does not make the horse, that is just some judges opinion on that day.

The horses that I was given are both stallions, one will be gelded this month. I choose not to geld the other one even though I am not a breeder. He was a breeding stallion for many years for a well known farm but he is learning a new job as a driving horse and doing well with it. The other one has an attitude problem that is the reason he will be gelded.

The horses that I have are all with me for life and arrangements have already been made for them a home if something should happen to myself or my husband.

I have personally taken in several horses that their owners simply could no longer care for them. They know that if I take them, they will be loved for life. I don't have a lot of money but my horses are taken care of. They are spoiled rotten, innoculated when due, their feet are done regularly and if one needs a vet they get it. I could tell you the names of many big breeders who never de-worm, hardly ever trim their feet and a lot of them couldn't tell you the last time a vet saw one of their horses.

If everyone of us would just help with one horse, it would make a lot of difference. If you don't want to take one in, that is your right. You can help by doing other things, a bale of hay donated to a rescue will feed some horses for that day.

Mary

 

[hahler]

I agree with mary not all horses are culls. im the first one to say you cant ride the papers. some of the best horses in my pasture arent registered.

i didnt want to bring it up here but the pro show market was hurt by the closing of the plants in this country. I have tried to deal with alot of horses that just needed to go. there are to many horses in this country that are being "puppy milled" i have seen it at some of the places i go to.

 

[CRERS]

Just to let everyone know, slaughter has not completely stopped in the US. Cavel is still slaughtering the last I knew to provide meat for zoo's. They are not slaughtering at the capacity they were, but they're still slaughtering just the same.

Not that it really matters either way........horses are now being transported into Canada and Mexico to be slaughtered. Mexico has absolutely no guidelines and instead of describing the gruesome process in which Mexican slaughter horses use, I will direct anyone interested in finding out to our website at www.celticreinrescue.org to see the video for themselves.

I attend auctions nearly every weekend - brokers are still scapping up horses, kill buyers are as well. Charles Carter is one of the largest kill buyers and he's located right in Colorado - they go to a feedlot, get fattened up, injured, diseased, limbs broken, etc...and are then shipped off with his contracted transporters to either Mexico or Canada for slaughter. There have been more mini's going through these disgusting low end auctions that I've ever seen before. In fact, we just pulled one last month who was in very sad condition and found out last week that she is 5 months in foal. 4 months ago we pulled two - one was a nice AMHA registered paint with a retained testicle. Testicle was removed and he is now a therapy horse with a good life ahead of him.

Do not fool yourself into thinking that one of your horses can't end up in these situations, I've seen it first hand. There is nothing sadder than seeing a little mini, scared to death, locked in a pen with 8-10 large horses that are showing no mercy for the little guy as he's getting bitten and kicked around. Not the place I'd want a foal that I bred to end up, but I don't breed.

Some have said that slaughter is helpful for disposing of the culls and unwanted horses - well, for God's sake, why are people producing horses less than phenominal horses when there are so many out here now needing help? Large horse or Miniature and everything in between, they're all there. These horses are all coming from somewhere.

 

[sdmini]

Sadly I stopped at a local, well run, Nationally advertised sale on Sunday. The mini sale was pretty sad I thought as top sale horses were tied at $500. One was a really nice older broodmare and the other one was a older stallion that had won quite a bit in his younger days. I took a stud colt to "try" but he came home with the last bid being $135

Truthfully I would have let him go if he would have went to a family but he was bought by a broker and that just wasn't going to happen. (It does pay to know your local buyers)

I watched some of the QH sale and that was really dismal. Well bred, mares broke to ride were selling for $300 to $350. Granted they were not riding and sliding but they were broke and getting them started cost more than that.

I watched a cute QH colt sell for $60. He had papers, his sire was sitting #2 in the heading standings and his dam was a daughter of one of the nations top halter stallions. To break it down, it cost fifty dollars to consign them to this sale and foals have to be registered (no selling on application) which I believe is twenty dollars all of this for a sixty dollar return, which he has to pay a ten percent commission on. This auction house was selling QH last year, in an already soft market, for $25,000.

You bet I think that horses are going to start getting dumped at an alarming rate.

What can I do? Not much, try to do right with my own.

On a happy note talk about destiny, this morning I got a call from a pinto family that was looking for a colt to show and the above colt has a new home. At three hundred and fifty I didn't break the bank but he's got a good home and the mare paid for herself for the year.