HELP!
- Thread starter Reijel's Mom
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Charlene
Well-Known Member
i'm getting to this thread late but am anxiously awaiting an update!!! hope ALL is well!!
when we were planning our layout here, gary asked if i wanted the feed room attached to the barn. i said nope, i want it outside the fence where there would be NO possibility of horses gaining access to anything.
when we were planning our layout here, gary asked if i wanted the feed room attached to the barn. i said nope, i want it outside the fence where there would be NO possibility of horses gaining access to anything.
Reijel's Mom
Well-Known Member
My update as of 11:48AM - hubby says they are looking fine and moving around as usual. He tried to put the mini gelding Charlie on the phone with me to tell me so himself, I personally thought Charlie was probably pretty interested in eating the phone.
Hubby didn't think their hooves felt hot, but I'm the usual horse caretaker, not him. He just likes to pet 'em
He called the vet and the vet was pleased to hear they still seem to be doing well, he thinks we may have dodged the bullet.
I'm not completely at ease yet. Hubby will call again before leaving for work at 2:30 and then I'll be home by 5:30 and hope to come home to my usual obnoxious crew.
I read that founder usually shows up about 12-18 hours after the overeating incident. Anyone have any experience with this to know if that is pretty accurate? If it's true that would be really good news because we are at the 18 hour mark now. . .
Thanks again everyone.
I'm not completely at ease yet. Hubby will call again before leaving for work at 2:30 and then I'll be home by 5:30 and hope to come home to my usual obnoxious crew.
I read that founder usually shows up about 12-18 hours after the overeating incident. Anyone have any experience with this to know if that is pretty accurate? If it's true that would be really good news because we are at the 18 hour mark now. . .
Thanks again everyone.
Hopefully, you have dodged the bullet on the founder issue.
According to another article in the 'The Horse', The Timeline of Laminitis where they induced laminitis in 5 horses and studied the changes in the horses, you should be getting into the timeframe when the symptoms will start to show up. Apparently the histological (microscopic, cellular level) changes are becoming visible at 12 hours with the onset of discernable 'clinical' signs following that.
Link: http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=10856
"Clinical signs
Mildly increased digital pulses were first detected at 13 to 29 hours and became more pronounced from this time on, he reported. The typical constant weight shifting of laminitis was seen in all horses starting 20 to 43 hours after induction.
"Lameness in four of the five horses progressively worsened with signs of severe laminitis evident in all four feet," he noted. "The remaining horse exhibited a mild lameness in all four feet that remained constant once detected. All horses developed moderate to marked transient (6- to 8-hour duration) epiphora (watery eyes), blepharospasm (eyelid twitching), and corneal opacity, which was clinically diagnosed as corneal edema, between 30 and 40 hours." He theorized that the corneal BM was affected similar to the laminar BM, but corneal biopsies could not be taken to confirm this theory. The eye problems had all resolved by 48 hours, he reported.
Take-Home Message
"Laminar histological lesions are present as early as 12 hours (after the causative factor has been administered), before the onset of clinical signs of laminitis occur at around 24 hours," van Eps stated. "Basement membrane disintegration and detachments are early pathological events. Failure of the BM results initially in the stretching of dermal-epidermal attachments, leading ultimately to a complete failure of this attachment under load. Efficacious therapy should commence before 12 hours; we need to treat these horses very early if we want to prevent damage."
According to another article in the 'The Horse', The Timeline of Laminitis where they induced laminitis in 5 horses and studied the changes in the horses, you should be getting into the timeframe when the symptoms will start to show up. Apparently the histological (microscopic, cellular level) changes are becoming visible at 12 hours with the onset of discernable 'clinical' signs following that.
Link: http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=10856
"Clinical signs
Mildly increased digital pulses were first detected at 13 to 29 hours and became more pronounced from this time on, he reported. The typical constant weight shifting of laminitis was seen in all horses starting 20 to 43 hours after induction.
"Lameness in four of the five horses progressively worsened with signs of severe laminitis evident in all four feet," he noted. "The remaining horse exhibited a mild lameness in all four feet that remained constant once detected. All horses developed moderate to marked transient (6- to 8-hour duration) epiphora (watery eyes), blepharospasm (eyelid twitching), and corneal opacity, which was clinically diagnosed as corneal edema, between 30 and 40 hours." He theorized that the corneal BM was affected similar to the laminar BM, but corneal biopsies could not be taken to confirm this theory. The eye problems had all resolved by 48 hours, he reported.
Take-Home Message
"Laminar histological lesions are present as early as 12 hours (after the causative factor has been administered), before the onset of clinical signs of laminitis occur at around 24 hours," van Eps stated. "Basement membrane disintegration and detachments are early pathological events. Failure of the BM results initially in the stretching of dermal-epidermal attachments, leading ultimately to a complete failure of this attachment under load. Efficacious therapy should commence before 12 hours; we need to treat these horses very early if we want to prevent damage."
Reijel's Mom
Well-Known Member
Arrgh - according to that article, R3 - I'm not even close to being ok
Just wish I was home with the little ones!!!
Just wish I was home with the little ones!!!
Mona
Well-Known Member
Looks like I am getting into this real late, but just wanted to say I sure hope your "kids" will all be OK in the long run. Sending prayers for them!
Good thing you are in iowa, its a tad bit colder, might help on the hooves if they are out in snowpac. I have read that article, I experienced laminitis with a mini mare on grass this summer. That article helped out a lot, but I still think you are going to be okay.
Brandi*
Well-Known Member
Hope everything turns out ok for you
Reijel's Mom
Well-Known Member
I'm home from work and all is normal
!
By this time tomorrow I hope to be breathing a sigh of relief!
By this time tomorrow I hope to be breathing a sigh of relief!
Becky
Well-Known Member
I sure hope your little guys are ok!
When I had two mares founder on bermuda grass round bales a few years ago, it was 3 days after they first started eating it before I saw any symptoms. That was a big surprise to me!
Hopefully, your little ones will be just fine with no ill effects.
When I had two mares founder on bermuda grass round bales a few years ago, it was 3 days after they first started eating it before I saw any symptoms. That was a big surprise to me!
Hopefully, your little ones will be just fine with no ill effects.
Reijel's Mom
Well-Known Member
Hi Becky -
Did they have Bermuda grass that whole time over the 3 days? Like it continued to build up in their system and then started to effect them? Or they had it one day, didn't have it anymore, and then 3 days later foundered?
I'm possibly being too optimistic but I'm hopeful that if my crew last had any sweet feed about 25.5 hours ago that every minute that goes by with them not showing symptoms is getting us closer to being in the clear. Not that I'm going to stop watching them after 48 hours, but I think I'll be feeling pretty optimistic by then.
Anyone else on here had minis founder after too much grain and if so when did you start to see the problems?
Sorry I keep pestering you all, it somehow helps me to feel proactive
Did they have Bermuda grass that whole time over the 3 days? Like it continued to build up in their system and then started to effect them? Or they had it one day, didn't have it anymore, and then 3 days later foundered?
I'm possibly being too optimistic but I'm hopeful that if my crew last had any sweet feed about 25.5 hours ago that every minute that goes by with them not showing symptoms is getting us closer to being in the clear. Not that I'm going to stop watching them after 48 hours, but I think I'll be feeling pretty optimistic by then.
Anyone else on here had minis founder after too much grain and if so when did you start to see the problems?
Sorry I keep pestering you all, it somehow helps me to feel proactive
Charlene
Well-Known Member
the only experience i've had with founder was with an old, gobby fat QH mare. she foundered on spring grass. caught it early, treated it and she was as sound as any other horse on the planet.
hope all is well with your gang this morning!!!!!!!
hope all is well with your gang this morning!!!!!!!
Reijel's Mom
Well-Known Member
Just wanted to update that miraculously the whole crew came through this A-ok! Thanks for all the input. I know we got very lucky this time.
eagles ring farm
Well-Known Member
Mona
Well-Known Member
YAY!! That is WONDERFUL news!!! So happy to hear it!
Brandi*
Well-Known Member
I am very happy that your little ones are ok and that your check book didn't see any action over it
Reijel's Mom
Well-Known Member
I am very happy that your little ones are ok and that your check book didn't see any action over it
That's always a good thing but I woulda been more than happy to pay if I could have gotten the vet out that night - that would have probably saved me 3 days of intense worry, loss of sleep, and constant hoof and welfare checks
But all is well that ends well!!
Charlene
Well-Known Member
great news, mary!!!
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