Help with breeding...should we or shouldn't we?

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charli

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Hello- My mom and I have currently have 6 minis but also own a Hackney pony. We are considering breeding Penny (Hackney) to one of our stallions,Dancer, a 33" Brown Pinto with Blue eyes. We are concerned that Penny may injure Dancer. Does anyone have any experience with breeding a mini with a pony? Any advice?

ThanksPenny.jpgDancer leftside.jpg
 
I am sure it has been done...I think "our own" Mary Lou has or had some mini/Hackney crosses. I would definitely use breeding hobbles...that significantly cuts down the chances of the stallion getting injured.
 
You have to also ask yourself what is the goal of this breeding? How will it be registered? (NSPR?)

I cant see your pictures, but what makes you think the mare would hurt the stallion? Is there a large size difference?

We bred our 36 aspc/amhr stallion to a 46" aspc mare and had to hand breed them to facilitate the breeding
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Hello- My mom and I have currently have 6 minis but also own a Hackney pony. We are considering breeding Penny (Hackney) to one of our stallions,Dancer, a 33" Brown Pinto with Blue eyes. We are concerned that Penny may injure Dancer. Does anyone have any experience with breeding a mini with a pony? Any advice?

ThanksView attachment 1173View attachment 1172
Breeding has a degree of danger whether you are pasture breeding, hand breeding, or AI'ing (most to least danger). I do not consider a larger mare to a smaller stallion to be any more dangerous. Many large horse breeding farms have a resident pony/mini stallion used for teasing. Mind you these folks are purposefully putting this small stallion in a position too dangerous for their big stallion and yet I have never had/heard of an injury.

Not that I encourage getting anything injured, I will also say a little fear produces some respect and a more gentlemanly stallion.

Dr Taylor
 
I agree with Kay and Dr. Taylor. 1) what are you trying to produce? 2) Breeding horses is dangerous for everyone involved at all times. Mares kick, stallions bite, and if you are handing breeding many times you are inbetween them at some point. I've been bit once this year and kicked or near kicked several times by both mares and the stallion. My major concern would be the mare kicking the stallion's penis since he's going to have to really "reach". Based on the pics, she appears to be very butt high so unless you dig a hole, he's going to have some trouble and she will eventually get irritated with him.

In this economy and with the over production of all kinds of horses, my advice is to not breed these two as the marking for the resulting foal is limited unless you intended to keep it forever and ever. But that's just me.
 
I agree with Kay and Dr. Taylor. 1) what are you trying to produce? 2) Breeding horses is dangerous for everyone involved at all times. Mares kick, stallions bite, and if you are handing breeding many times you are inbetween them at some point. I've been bit once this year and kicked or near kicked several times by both mares and the stallion. My major concern would be the mare kicking the stallion's penis since he's going to have to really "reach". Based on the pics, she appears to be very butt high so unless you dig a hole, he's going to have some trouble and she will eventually get irritated with him.

In this economy and with the over production of all kinds of horses, my advice is to not breed these two as the marking for the resulting foal is limited unless you intended to keep it forever and ever. But that's just me.
I dont mean to be rude but you breed ( do you not ) so why shouldnt she..!!
 
I dont mean to be rude but you breed ( do you not ) so why shouldnt she..!!
I do breed. ASPC x ASPC where I have a market. I do not breed cross breeds with no market. I breed ponies with show records and have produced ponies with show records. A hackney to a mini cross has a very limited market and very limited show/use opportunities.
 
Is your hackney also registered with AMHR?? If not, you will end up with a grade pony....which while it could turn out to be very nice, has a VERY limited market if you ever decide to sell....unless it is trained to be a 'bomb proof' kids' pony....so you are talking YEARS before you MIGHT see any kind of return on this mating.
 
Maybe it's just me, but how did it get from someone asking for advice in breeding a mini with a pony, to whether or not she should breed, how will you register it, and what's the market if you sell.........etc.?

Why is everyone so full of sharing their advice not to breed? She didn't ask IF she should do this, but asked for help and if anyone had any experience with this. She never even mentioned selling!

To me, it's when we don't stick with and answer questions, but instead give everyone our opinion that they shouldn't breed, shouldn't do this or that, that begins to offend people and start making the topics seem hostile. Someone said Mary Lou had done this. So, did all of you feel free to give her your opinion that she shouldn't do it, or just give her the respect she deserved and let her make her own decisions without opinions not asked for?

So, does anyone have any experience?

Okay -- flame away!
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Most responsible breeders want not only what is best for THEIR animals, but for the animals in their industry as a whole as well. Therefore, when people see an opportunity to make someone THINK about what they are doing with their animals, be it husbandry/care or breeding, they will voice their opinions and offer some information.

There are so many animals out there as a result of poor planning in breeding that if just one more animal can be prevented from being bred, a majority of responsible breeders will try to do what they can.

A registered animal will have more opportunities to find a good home, it's one more thing it has going for it. A well-conformed animal will be more attractive to people, be healthier and stronger overall, and have more opportunities to be a show/breeding animal. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to breed "just because" it is there, even if it's unregistered or not registered to the same registries as other animals on the farm.

Personally, if this hackney mare is unregistered, I would not breed it. I don't see in the original post if the mare is or not. But I see purebred, registered Hackney ponies selling at the Midwest Hackney Club auctions for just a hundred dollars so it doesn't make sense to me to breed a grade crossbred horse "just because" ... I can buy something with a decent pedigree for next to nothing.

If the mare was registered, I would personally find a nice AHHS registered Hackney stallion to breed her to. OR I would find an ASPC shetland stallion to make an ASPR registered foal if I thought the cross would stay under 48".

Andrea
 
Well I think given the people that answered, they have years of experience with breeding, what is desirable, what is quality, what wins at shows as well as getting good homes. I find that most who are brave enough to comment, and risk getting a slap on the wrist by other posters as well as ML are really only trying to better the breed and cut down on the poor quality horses that are being over produced with nowhere to go but in to rescues after they have been neglected.

Would I do the breeding? No for some of the very reasons mentioned. There is no market for them. I have 5 horses now, most are big and only 2 are registered. One I bought for $300 and was dead broke, kid and newbie safe. The amount of time, money and work put into him was worth far more then what I bought him for, mainly because he had no papers. Of those 5 only one is a gelding the rest are mares. I haven’t had foals in about 3 years and even then I had 1-2 a year. The last 2 foals I had were double reg. show quality that I put into pet homes for little to no money, and then I stopped breeding. If I ever decide to have a foal it will be for my own use to replace my older riding horse.

Problem that seems to be in almost any breed of animals is that people have them so they think why not breed them instead of taking a step back and really looking at if they should or should not be bred.
 
and the grumpies continue.
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Believe it or not there are a lot more things to do with a pony than show it and I have seen some very well put together ponies that never go into the show ring. My son has a hackney cross that believe it or not he show jumps and gymkanas. When I go to buy a new riding or lead rein pony I am not interested in its breed but what it will be like with the kids. Could you tell us what you would like to do with this foal?

I know it isn't quite the same thing but when we cover the big mares by hand the stallion is presented on the other side of the stable door for the first time just to see if she is ready and willing and the mares always have kicking chains on when covered. I haven't had any trouble so far but we don't use young stallions so the older guys tend to be a bit more careful.
 
I hear ya Diane, and agree! We just went through the same thing on another fairly recent post. We don't want to scare people off, making them afraid to post their questions for fear that they will be bombarded with DON'T BREED/preaching posts when that is not what they are asking. I am not saying those posting those responses are not valid concerns, because they definately ARE, however, that was not what was asked. Each of us own our horses, pay for their feed, health care and upkeep, and we are therefore the ones to make the decision as to whether we want to breed them or not. I know what things are like with the market, and if I still owned minis and wanted to breed them, I would, regardless of what anyone else had to say about it, because they are my horses, I pay the bills and it is therefore only MY responsibility and MY decision to do so.
 
But the title is "Help with breeding... should we or shouldn't we?" So, those who said "you shouldn't", they are answering the OP's question, are they not?

Personally I don't breed any horses (or anything else) that won't be able to be registered. And I won't buy an unregistered horse. When I was looking for a mini for the grandkids to get started on, I bought a registered one. She's very well broke to ride and drive, and the kids will be able to take her into the show ring if they so desire, and when they outgrow her, she'll be easier to sell since she's registered (and will likely have a show record too).
 
But the title is "Help with breeding... should we or shouldn't we?" So, those who said "you shouldn't", they are answering the OP's question, are they not?
Oh, sorry, I guess I must have misunderstood the question being asked then, because I thought they were asking about people's past experience with breeding a pony to a mini for safety reasons when they asked...

Does anyone have any experience with breeding a mini with a pony?
 
I believe there are several experienced breeders here who have crossed their minis with Hackney ponies. Hopefully they will chime in and share their experiences!

Liz R.
 
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when Im breeding, no matter what I am wanting, I have to realize that, even if I think I will NEVER sell the horse, will there be a market??? because you can never perdict the future.

while the cross could result in something fabulous.............flashy cart pony?! :) is the QUALITY going to be there? what I know about your stud is that he is a Pretty color, and while color is a plus, it should not be the main reason you breed two horses..............UNLESS, the quality of both horses are superb, and the color is just an added bonus.

before making the decision , check out the local market for these sorts of horses/ponies, find horses similar to what you will produce, and be truthful with yourself... realize that, there is a possibility you could get the least color, and the foal be a plain coat color..........so, you would loose the market for loud, flashy colorful horses.

create different scenerios, and realize how you will be able to handle it, mentally, AND Financially.........foals are expensive, way more expensive typically, then just going out and buying them

check out local auctions, and look into rescuing?? realize you must wait 3-4 years or longer to break the pony to cart or saddle, and then another year or so until you can safely ride or drive them.

I say YES- breed them, if your horses are accomplished, are quality examples of their breed, and their conformation will COMPLIMENT eachother, and you are capable financially to afford vet visits for foals, and training

I say NO- if you are simply wanting to see what sort of foal you would get, and are wanting to breed for color and neither parents are accomplished - and you financially cannot afford the 14-day vet check - 4 month pregnancy vet check, the vet to come out the day after foaling, paying for correct grain to feed the mare, along with correct vaccinations during the mares pregnancy. .....because cutting corners on pregnancys is never good :)

GOOD LUCK!!!
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Well, I'm going to answer the question:

I have no experience breeding a mini to a pony, but I'm thinking you are going to need a ladder to get it done. Or a very deep hole. You may find that the logistics make the breeding a very difficult task.

Hope this helps.
 
Well, I'm going to answer the question:

I have no experience breeding a mini to a pony, but I'm thinking you are going to need a ladder to get it done. Or a very deep hole. You may find that the logistics make the breeding a very difficult task.

Hope this helps.
I was thinking along the same lines. I have a 31" stallion, he has a hard enough time reaching my mini mares, as they are 35-38" tall (so far, he's only covered a couple 35-36" girls).
 
I have no experiance with this, but I will just post my thought anyway.

If you are prepared and will accept what you end up with then go for it. The safety issue is a concern too, but I am sure you are getting plenty of advise on that.

The concern I have is what you might end up with. This is quite an outcross. You might not get just a smaller horse with hackney movement. You might get a very short legged hackney that has terrible movement. it is a gamble, and you can't be sure all of the genes will fall in your favor. If they do, great! If they don't I guess those are called the culls. Are you prepared to accept that?

It is true that we all take a chance like that when we breed, but not as big of a chance as you will be taking.

I wouldn't worry too much about the market. One foal shouldn't be that hard to find a home for or keep. Which ever you decide. lots of people have done it or still do it. They dump the foals till they get what they want. people didn't think much about it years ago. A lot of nice horses were created, but what became of all the culls? Everyone just pretended the never existed.

I guess we all do the same thing when we breed. I will only breed for something specific and if it ends up being a colt or not exacltly what I want, then I will be selling it or placing it. I have a small herd and have 4 due this year which is the most i have ever had. I had one filly born so far and she is for sure a keeper.
 

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