Help from color experts

SBrown · Jul 7, 2006

More reference photos of dam, siblings and grandparents in a later post.

What color do you think this foal is?? He almost looked pink when he was born and is now lighter. Hooves are white. His dam is in the photo with him below and his sire is also below.

Thanks!

Songcatcher · Jul 7, 2006

To me he looks Palomino with Sabino.

chandab · Jul 7, 2006

The sire looks silver bay (look at those dark legs), the dam looks maybe grulla (mouse grey with dorsal).

So, I say the foal looks light silver bay to me.

rabbitsfizz · Jul 7, 2006

Silver Bay Dun- loke Jill's mare Goldie.

Dona · Jul 7, 2006

I agree with Silver Bay/Dun.

: Take a good look at the mane on that foal. It has that "smokey" appearance that black manes which are lightened by the Silver gene has. So the foal has to be a "black-based" color...and probably a combination of the sire & dam's coloring.

:

SmoothEZ · Jul 7, 2006

I also agree with Silve Bay/Dun. Looking at the smokey hairs in the mane and then the dark hairs around the eyes. I think maybe this guy will darker instead of lighten with age.

Anyway whatever color he comes out he is really well put together colt.

:

Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis · Jul 7, 2006

Hmm maybe itis my screen I am not seeing anything at all that would say dun, no shoulder barring, no true dorsal no spiderwebbing.

I think this foal is palomino since he is so "peachy" and that his mane will lighten with time

Dona · Jul 7, 2006

Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis said:
Hmm maybe itis my screen I am not seeing anything at all that would say dun, no shoulder barring, no true dorsal no spiderwebbing.

I think this foal is palomino since he is so "peachy" and that his mane will lighten with time

For this foal to be Palomino....one of the parents would have to be a creme carrier.

Sire is Silver-Bay, and Bay can't carry it.

Dam appears to be Grulla, which is a gray "dun".....Altho there is a "slight" possibility she could be a "Smokey-Black" who got the Dun gene, I doubt it. Even if she did carry the creme gene....you cannot get a Palomino by breeding two black-based horses. :no:

crponies · Jul 8, 2006

I guess my monitor must be working like yours, Lisa. I don't see the black-based color with this foal either. He looks palomino to me as well. If sire and dam are both E/e you must certainly can get palomino from the pair if one also has the creme gene, which I would think the dam does.

mmmorgans · Jul 8, 2006

Looks palomino to me. I had a Morgan colt born exactly the same colour - peachy looking. His mane turned whiter and whiter with each month. His dam was black and his sire was buckskin.

Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis · Jul 8, 2006

Hmmm well again must be my monitor but the dam surely looks buckskin(perhaps silver buckskin) to me not grulla at all I would assume the creme gene could easily come from her but again could be my computer.. I still am not seeing although not the best picture of the dam not alot of dun factors in her either so I am still sticking with from what I see on my monitor simply palomino

I had a foal the same shade of palomino and yes he was a TRUE palomino out of a silver mare and by a buckskin stallion. For me it is that "peachy" look.. his mane didnt turn white till he was easy a few months old.

rabbitsfizz · Jul 8, 2006

No, the dam is definitely Grulla.

She could be Smoky Black Dun- she could also have had a Palomino foal- two Black based animals can certainly have a Red based foal, come on Dona- think about it

:

: - BUT in this case I would lay a pound to a penny this foal is Silver Bay-Dun, not Palomino.

The foal being Palomino relies solely on the Grulla carrying Cream- too much of a long shot really, I preferr the most simple explanations!!

And there is something about the cast to the coat and the mane and tail, that just is not Palomino to me.

Meavey · Jul 8, 2006

Indeed the foal can be palomino, if the dam is smokey grullo.

Does she have cream dilutes in het predigree?

To me he does look palomino.

Have him tested for black, and maybe cream.

A palomino will be ee and a silver-bay dun Ee/EE

rabbitsfizz · Jul 8, 2006

The point is we are only guessing that the mare may be Smoky Black Dun- we have absolutely no proof.

Visually the foal is not Palomino- not to me, anyway, so why make the huge leap of guessing the mare may have Cream when, from the parents, it is Silver Bay dun??

Anyhoo... a test will tell us for sure!!

:

Dona · Jul 8, 2006

rabbitsfizz said:
No, the dam is definitely Grulla.

She could be Smoky Black Dun- she could also have had a Palomino foal- two Black based animals can certainly have a Red based foal, come on Dona- think about it

:

: - BUT in this case I would lay a pound to a penny this foal is Silver Bay-Dun, not Palomino.

The foal being Palomino relies solely on the Grulla carrying Cream- too much of a long shot really, I preferr the most simple explanations!!

And there is something about the cast to the coat and the mane and tail, that just is not Palomino to me.

You are right Rabbit.....it is possible for two black-based horses to produce a red, "if" they are Ee & carry a recessive red gene.

: My brain must have been on overload last nite.

:

:

But, I still don't think that is the case here, as you, I also don't see a "visual" Palomino in this foal.

angelridge · Jul 8, 2006

My vote is palomino.

Are you going to do a test? I would, its only $25. Heres the website.

http://www.animalgenetics.us/Equine.htm

Just pull some tail hairs, put them in a zip lock baggy and send it in with the form you can download and print from the website. They will email and send a copy of the results to you. And they are pretty quick I use them all the time.

Let us know the results! He is a gorgeuos colt!

:

Songcatcher · Jul 8, 2006

rabbitsfizz said:
The point is we are only guessing that the mare may be Smoky Black Dun- we have absolutely no proof.

Visually the foal is not Palomino- not to me, anyway, so why make the huge leap of guessing the mare may have Cream when, from the parents, it is Silver Bay dun??

Anyhoo... a test will tell us for sure!!

:

To me, the foal still LOOKS Palomino. Of course, I could be wrong, I was once (I thought I made a mistake and I didn't :new_rofl: :risa_suelos: :new_rofl: ). I don't see any clear indications of Dun on the foal, but I suppose that could be diluted by Cream??? which would put us back to Palomino or Dunalino or Silver Dunskin.

When the baby pictured below was born (from Sorrel Pinto mare with Silver in her background and my B/W stallion), I thought she HAD to be some odd shade of Silver. There was obviously no Cream in her dam and there were NO dilutes in the 5 generations on the sire's pedigree. NO reason to suspect Palomino even though she looked it. However, after the second foal from my stallion was born this year and was a buckskin from a Silver Bay mare, I decided to have my stallion tested and he did indeed prove to be a Smokey Black. Third foal, another Palomino Pinto. Finally, fouth foal (from an outside mare) was Black and White. I'm hoping for a Black and White year next year.

I agree wholeheartedly, a test will tell for sure. Test for Cream.

:

SBrown · Jul 9, 2006

Thank you everyone for your input. Sounds like testing is the way to go.

Here is the pedigree of the dam of the foal....NY Acres Laurel Ranch Pecan Sandi. She has had a red roan pinto for us when bred to a palomino pinto, and two colts and a filly the same color as she when bred to a blue roan appaloosa. Her color is very dominant and now bred to a silver bay stallion we get the color in question.

This is a photo of the dam. She has a prominant dorsal stripe but no leg bars though her son below definitely does.

and here is a daughter.....

This is the dam and sire of the foals silver bay sire

Dam.....Rose Buds Irish Rainmaker

Sire.....Cross Countrys Call Me Sir

Minimor · Jul 9, 2006

Maybe he is......sorrel??? :new_shocked: :new_shocked: with flaxen....

I agree his mane does have that silvery grey cast that silver bay foals often have, but the rest of him doesn't say silver bay to me at all.

Songcatcher · Jul 9, 2006

That pedigree says the dam is Buckskin, which would easily produce a Palomino. However, I would agree more with Black Dun/Grulla, even though she looks a bit light for that (Smokey????). We all know that colors on pedigrees are notoriously wrong, but I don't see anything in her's that would produce a Buckskin. Of course, there is nothing in Bandits pedigree that shows he would produce Palominos, but he did.

It will be interesting to watch this one mature.

:

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