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One more "clinical" posit, then I will try to leave it alone. (I just love seeing things revealed...)

We have seen folk doggedly maintain that they will vote for the nominee even if he isn't their favorite. So lets map this out. Lets try not to deflect or use other mechanisms to NOT simply answer the question. But please answer simply with a yes or no.

IF (and that is the operative word) R.P were to miraculously win the nomination, would the aforementioned "party nominee" voters vote for R.P just as doggedly as they are claiming they will vote for Mitt?
 
I'm a Republican. But, I do not think I can cast a vote for Romney. He gives me the creeps. Something about that man I do not like.
OMG !! That's EXACTLY how I feel, although I am not a Republican. I WILL NOT vote for him.
 
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Then this is your guy. Not creepy, not a liar, not a predator. Just buried by some very concerned and powerful "people" I would only post this because I know that sly as a fox nor any "media" outlet is telling you this. Stick that in yer conspiracy bonnet....
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GOP Presidential candidate Ron Paul continues to fill stadiums and attract thousands of people to his campaign events, while the establishment is once again becoming concerned about the effect Paul’s success will have on the national convention in Florida.

Paul drew a crowd of over 4000 people at the California State University at Fullerton campus yesterday at the school’s Titan Stadium.

Enthusiastic supporters were queuing around the block to get into the stadium, as the following video captured by one attendee highlights:

Paul took to the stage to boisterous chants of “President Paul!” and proceeded to outline his ‘Plan to Restore America.’

“Sounds like there’s a revolutionary spirit in town tonight,” Paul said, to thunderous applause. “I’m so encouraged that so many young people saying, ‘Things have got to change.’”

“Our time has come, and it won’t be stopped,” the Congressman noted during a 50-minute long speech. “In the short range, there will be bumps. In the long range, if we are dedicated, we will change this country and we will change the world.”

Saying that the economy was the most pressing issue at hand, Paul noted “Things have definitely changed in the last four or five years. People have woken up and realized that we don’t have a sound economic system.”

“The tragedy here in this country is that if you’re on the inside track, you get the benefits when things are going well and you get bailed out when things go bad,” he said.

“If you don’t have confidence in government, it’s a good thing,” Paul said. “You challenge things.”

Meanwhile, Paul’s refusal to drop out of the presidential race is beginning to cause some concern for establishment Republicans, as the Congressman’s supporters are ensuring that he is stealthily picking up delegates ahead of the national convention.

In the past few days, Paul has registered a number of successes at state committees and conventions in Massachusetts, Minnesota, Alaska, Iowa, Louisiana, Colorado, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island.

If Paul can score a plurality of delegates from five states, his supporters could nominate him from the convention floor. At this stage a brokered convention remains highly unlikely. However, with a strong showing among delegates the Congressman’s supporters hope to secure a speaking spot for Paul and some control over the party platform.

Josh Putnam, a professor of political science at Davidson College and expert on delegate procedures, told TPM that Paul’s supporters should “easily” reach the required threshold of delegate pluralities, and warned that the effects could be far reaching.

“Broadly speaking, I don’t think anyone has a firm handle on how deep this goes,” Putnam told TPM. “This is a headache for Romney and they’ll have to deal with it at some point.”

Republican officials are warning that Paul’s supporters are seizing control of the party at the State level.

“It’s down to a matter of trust,” Craig Robinson, a former political director of the Iowa Republican Party told The Hill.

“If you’re the Romney campaign, can you trust the Iowa GOP to work with you? If this delegation is going to go down to the Florida convention and cast their votes for Ron Paul, I think the answer is no. I wouldn’t blame the Romney campaign for being skeptical of working with the Iowa GOP.”

Similar situations are fomenting in several other states as Paul supporters are using the establishment system to their own advantage.

“Taken together, these victories and those yet to happen forecast a prominent role for Ron Paul at the RNC,” Paul campaign manager John Tate said after the Colorado and Minnesota gains. “They also signal that the convention will feature a spirited discussion over whether conservatism will triumph over the status quo.”

The Paul campaign will remain in California for the next few days and will hold several more events. The Congressman will speak at another large on-campus town hall meeting tomorrow at the University of California at Davis. On Friday, he will hold another at the University of California at San Diego.
 
I will answer your question Carriage with a simple answer....yes.
 
I have to say it has been fascinating reading this thread. I feel for those who own small business in the U.S. and also in Canada. My husband is also a small business owner. It always seems that we are the ones that keep economies going and that the big guys are the ones that can get away with paying minimal taxes because of the loopholes etc.

"The current Administration is anti busines, in historic proportions. During the 2008 elections, I couldn't fathom how any business owner would support Obama. Now that he's had 3 plus years do many other things I feared he would, being smart enough to put 2 and 2 together even without his hot mic slip up, i seriously will look into the logistics of outsourcing the administrative duties of my office if hes re-elected. I love my employees and treat them well, but at the end of the day, I'm in business to stay in business."

That is truly sad that you feel that if Obama is re-elected that you will have to outsource the administrative duties. How many people from your company would you have to let go? Times are difficult for small business all over, this is not just a U.S. thing.
 
Oh and just for the record, even though I am Canadian...if I were American I would be voting republican but only for Ron Paul and that's a big thing for me because Republican's are what the Conservative government is up here and I have NEVER votes Conservative :)
 
It follows the pattern I've been trying to explain. They have been repeatedly told that MR has the best chance to beat Obama. There is zero evidence to even posit the claim, there is no track record to prove it either yet it is doggedly maintained. They were told this about McCain as well. The pattern is to pick the weakest and promote them as the strongest. When history reveals the pattern time after time it is no longer a "theory". Refusal to recognize the pattern also does not make it a "theory".

Stand strong.
Good thing the weather here is still terrible today because this thread is interesting. I agree if you have a candidate, the machine gets behind him and you spend tons of money with advertising, you can sway lots of people but what you're getting is not necessarily the cream of the crop in any way.
 
"Right there with you! I find this "anybody but Obama" humorous/discouraging/short sighted."

Right now the Chinese dissident is being held in front of us 24/7. I have learned over the years that when I see this type of "news" cycle, I had better be rooting deeper to find out what ELSE is going on that the "media" does not want covered. Most often there is something and the revelation of it would be very damaging to Government.
My s/o and I were watching the news last night and were talking about the unending coverage of this story.
 
I like Ron Paul. He doesn't give me the creeps and he gives no-nonsense, unfluffy repsonses. I'd feel it was a valuable use of my vote. But, realistically, will we get a chance to vote for him?
 
I like Ron Paul. He doesn't give me the creeps and he gives no-nonsense, unfluffy repsonses. I'd feel it was a valuable use of my vote. But, realistically, will we get a chance to vote for him?
Oh this is SO how I feel too. He pretty much says it as it is and you really feel he's one politician who you can take at face value....MR on the other hand !
 
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This whole George Soros thing really has me thinking. I stayed up almost all night watching his about 4.5 hour long lecture on his philosophys and the economy. I am really trying to understand what is wrong with this person. If the biggest offence is mentioning a New World Order, if you listen to his interviews, all he is saying is we are in a "world order" right now, with America in Charge, but if things continue going the way they have been, China will take over, and they will be the New World Order. That is EXACTLY what so many americans are sayin right now! If you read the entire article that Sonya posted, it is 10% twisting what Soros said about a New World Order and 90% just assumption that are assigned to anyone who wants a "New World Order" in the worst possible sense. This man is AGAINST governemnt control and totaltarism, in everything he does!!

I understand being suspicous when someone has alot of power or money, dont just follow the leader, who knows were they are going. But exactly how much good does someon need to do, how much personal suffering and helping the needy, before those things "count"? It seems many think that all the good this person has done has only proven that "well he must be up to something, why else would anyone in their right mind "give away" 8 Billion dollars?" Come on, how about some actually reasons to hate this person? Other than he is too good to be true.

BTW, Media Matters is not one of his "toys", he donated 1 Million dollars to them, in 2010, after they had already been operating for over 6 years. Long before his issues with Fox news, one of his main goals and what he considered the most important vital tools of a free world, was the right for honest open press. This man has had issues with "bad media" and the way they use their tool to influence a nation long before the press turned against him.

So the thought is that Sorors has spent his enitre life supporting and promoting freedom, democracy, charity and protecting the free press, just so he could trick people into trusting him, while the whole time hating all these things, so that now, at 81, he can collapse the WORLD and create a SUPER GOVERNMENT and take over, reversing all that he has done. How long will that last step take, you know, The Big Brother Takeover of the WORLD, 5-10 years? So he will be 86-91? Wow, sounds like he is a super genious, but some one really dropped the ball when it comes to time management. Maybe he is just setting this all up for John Stewart to take over and supreme ruler being of the world!
 
Matters Matters plays a central role for the progressive political agenda. It just boggles my mind the amount of things many people are willing to set forth their opinion about while I suppose they multi task in a Google search to back it up. Oy! It feels like a grain of sand (info byte) becomes their beach. Trying to providide details turns into an arguement -- frequently with those same people who just got done saying they didn't know about the topic. Real happy we don't attend the same dinner parties
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I like Ron Paul. He doesn't give me the creeps and he gives no-nonsense, unfluffy repsonses. I'd feel it was a valuable use of my vote. But, realistically, will we get a chance to vote for him?
I like him a lot, too. It's very unlikely, if not impossible, that he will receive the GOP nomination. So, no, I don't think that there will be a chance to vote for him UNLESS a person wants to, for all practical purposes, throw away their vote on a third ticket.
 
Jill I do not mind at all talking with you about this, I would actually very much like to. You obviously want to talk to me also or at the very least talk about me while "I’m in the room".

Above ^^, you are clearly responding to my opinion about Soros, and my previous admittance that I had no idea who this person was 36 hours ago, in addition you refer to my previous comment about having a bunch of Google search windows open. Whether or not you want to admit it, you are not ignoring me and I truly appreciate that and will continue the conversation you have involved me in by replying to your accusations.
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My question to those who think they know something of more value about George Soros please share. I am wondering what information people have access to that I don't. Almost everything that has ever been written about or played on tv about George Soros can be found online. Unless someone has first hand witness accounts that have formed their opinion of this person, then they have no more access to knowledge about "who is George Soros" than I do, or anyone else who can sit in front of a computer reading and watching. Supposedly I have let a "grain of sand become my beach". What makes my intel a grain of sand and someone else’s a beach? I have read 16 articles about the man, watched a 5 hour lecture done by him, watched the hour long Glenn Beck "puppet master" special, watched the John Stewart response, read speeches by Soros, all the while researching the many references made in these articles and videos that I had never heard of, so I could understand them. LOL



I can follow the logic, that time and experience effects our opinions of things and our understanding of them, but that does not apply to something we will never have direct contact with or an opportunity to experience first hand. For example, to assume you know everything about horse care because you had a horse for day is unrealistic, experience will be your biggest teacher. With something like George Soros, unless someone is going to go work with him and get to know him any more than the many articles and videos, then "experience" will never make any difference. The articles and videos that I formed my opinion on are all ANY OF US have, you, me and everyone else reading.

As I said before and almost everyone has, if you have an opinion, and you think others should agree and support it, tell us the actual information that helped you form it! If you are above that or just simple don't have a reason for your opinions, maybe you should consider the size of your beach before criticizing others.



BTW, I went to the Romney website, to see the actual examples of what exactly Obama did, specifically to Tax's on Small businesses. This website was put up as a great place to find those answers, for those interested. I had high hopes when I saw the complexity of the website and with the understanding that this person has been given the largest platform to share knowledge with all of us. I was even more excited when I did as directed, clicking into subcategories to learn about things "in detail", I was told by doing so I could find more information than needed. I then found the heading, "Obama's Failure", which was under the heading "Taxes", this is exactly what I was looking for! Sadly though, it was just two very generalized paragraphs with NO references to any specific actions. Not one footnote to follow and see the vague references the article was speaking about. Honestly, if I had wrote that as school project, explaining the failure of an administration, it would have amounted to nothing more than a glorified introduction, and if no substance followed, and F. Almost sounds like a grain of sand made to sound like a beach?
 
I appreciate those who answered the question

However, it's tough for some

"I like him a lot, too. It's very unlikely, if not impossible, that he will receive the GOP nomination. So, no, I don't think that there will be a chance to vote for him UNLESS a person wants to, for all practical purposes, throw away their vote on a third ticket."

This didn't answer the question at all. Rather it changed the question. (Please remember previous studies on this) The question was, IF by some miracle R.P. became the nominee would you support him with the same fervor. Really it requires much less twisting and no deflection to answer the question with a simple yes or no. Truth is simple, fraud is complex.
 
"As I said before and almost everyone has, if you have an opinion, and you think others should agree and support it, tell us the actual information that helped you form it! If you are above that or just simple don't have a reason for your opinions, maybe you should consider the size of your beach before criticizing others."

Nice summation James. Clears the chaff and "chads" outa the way. Always go back to the original question. Buy the movement not the stack (pose).
 
Cranky / Bob / Carriage -- It's just too bad if it bothers you. My reply to which you refer was to another forum member and was right on point as far as I'm concerned. And, even better, it wasn't three and a half miles long.
 
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Carriage, I think you may be in one of the "transitional phases" of being ignored by Jill / Whinny for me Farm / Wife of Harvey / Friend of Sonya / Regressive Conservative / Ignorer of James / Lover of Angel Fish and Parrot Fish (the Dwarf of the Fish World) / Home of the Largest collection of Virginia Bred Unregistered Double Dilute Animals In ALL OF SPOTSYLVNIA, VA.
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While I understand some of those titles and alias's may have no affect on the posters opinions or even be anyone’s business (heck I don’t even know if they are true, but what does that matter at this point), it appears that some on here feel it appropriate to be constantly trying to "expose" people they disagree with. Maybe a polite email to the person would be a better idea, if you think it is so important to know the name and all previous names of all posters you disagree with.

I would apologize to those this offends, but instead will just take the highroad, follow the behavior of my elders who have taught by example on this wonderful forum, do the mature thing, and say, "It's just to bad if it bothers you."
 
Media Matters is not controlled by Soros - no matter how much some will insist it is. Not even close. I find it amusing that those who get agitated about Soros doing things on the left will always overlook and excuse what the Koch Brothers have done on the right by way of manipulation etc.

It works both ways. Hypocrisy abounds on both sides.

Politifact is another good place to go to check facts about anything to do with politics. They are non-partisan and examine and criticize everyone equally for their nonsense - as well as truths. They are neither right - nor left.

As was mentioned upthread, if you only take a very small percentage of what is examined at Media Matters into consideration, there is still a lot to be concerned about. The fact that Fox News is seen as many not to be "lamestream media" - is ironic - they do the exact same thing all the other media does, only with their slant on it. They are mainstream/lamestream. They are no better than any other media outlet out there.... fair & balanced is just an advertising slogan, not a mission statement.

As the election draws closer, Politifact will be a good place to check out the advertising claims... they just did an interesting article that shows how things can be manipulated and distorted to present a "message" - HERE. And yes, they will dissect left leaning ads in exactly the same way.

And it would be nice if we could have a discussion WITHOUT insults and sneers. But judging from what happened here during the 2008 election, I am not sure that is possible... y'all need to KNOCK IT OFF with the personal slams and act like adults. Enough already. We already had this entore topic banned due to bad behaviour in similar threads. I would not want that to happen again.

IMO some of you need to go back and do some editing on your posts. Seriously.
 
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