Ever feel like you just need to talk!!

[LaraP]

When it comes to Joshua. I am sure by now most of you all are just sick of hearing about this. Its now been 8 months on the 16th that we lost Joshua. Family members altho they want to listen, say the same things. You guys just need to get over this, but I can't seem to do that.

I have gone to Dr's, they want to medicate me, that isn't not what I want. I have gone to grief mangement, and they suggest I go to my Dr to get something to take for awhile to get over this. I have even found a chatroom. And that depresses me even more.

Ann Simmons, is probably my best friend. But she gets so upset, so I don't talk much about things with her, bless her heart. Karin at Narkar has more than once offered to talk with me, but goodness she just lost her husband, How can I dump something like this on her. That I feel isn't fair to her.

I actually have accepted his death, as has David. And we are comforted to know that he was needed by God, and that is why Joshua is no longer with us.

The hospital sent us all of Josh's medical records, enclosed in that were the EMT's records. I should have just tossed them out.

I know this is a very controversal subject, on organ donations. This is the part that i just can't get past... Joshua was exprired to long so the major organs, liver, kidneys etc couldn't be used. But yet David was pushed and pushed on donations. We hadn't even known for more than a hr that Joshua was gone. I truly think he agreed just get them the donor company to stop calling. But there was so much that David wasn't told. So many lies. Now David has all this guilt. If we were told ALL of what would happen I know David would have said NO.

I am trying so hard not to get morbid, but I don't know how else to get this off my chest. I also know that Joshua was gone, and it doesn't matter what was done with his body after his death. BUT it matters to US.

Joshua, was 6ft 2" tall at the time of his death. When he got back to TN he couldn't have weighed 100 lbs. He looked like a ten yr old little boy. We assumed it was from the accident, but found out that it wasn't. I think the donation team should have told David to expect certain things when viewing Joshua. They were aware that we wanted him to be viewed.

I will NEVER in my whole life ever will get those images out of my head. The funeral home here in TN. called us when Joshua's body got to there facility. I was sick, scared and not know what to expect really. We knew that Joshua had some cuts on his face so I was preparing for that more than anything. But when the casket was open, it literally took my breathe away. His hair, had frost on it from the plane ride from Va and being under the plane, my first thought was he needed a blanket. I wanted to pick him up and hold him. He was so tiny.. I am sorry but I have got to get his off my chest and if MaryLou thinks its so morbid it won't hurt me to remove this post. I just have noone that I can tell about this.

When we found out WHY he was so little (which was just this week) I spent the enitre day in bed. David spent the entire day at the cemetary! I asked LifeNet if there is anyway that David or I could talk to the Dr's that did the removal. And I got no response from him. He changed the subject, so I asked again. He told me that there was no Dr's present. That surgical asst. did the removal. I called the funeral home in Va. that prepared Joshua and his words to me were "SHOCKING". Joshua had to be put in a plastic suit, under his Navy uniform just to keep the fluids from leaking out because of the number of incisions that the donor team made The funeral home in Va said that it was very hard for them to get Joshua prepared, and added that when a donor team gets ahold of a body that this happens more than not. Don't you think we should have been told?? It was nothing like Joshua could safe any lives with his donations. It was bones, to help people that have knee replacements, or back surgeries, and that there was no hurry in getting this done. But LifeNet told David, you have one hr to make up your mind or it will be to late.. THAT WAS NOT TRUE!!

Its done, no way we can take it back now. But how do we live with it??

I just need help understanding this... I think David has turned his attention mainly to the horses for comfort, I tend to want to get in fetal position and try to sleep days away. Even at the horse sale that we went to yesterday, I feel wrong for enjoying my life. Joshua is ALWAYS on my mind.. How can I make this right for Joshua?

Thank you all for listening

 

[justanothercowgirl]

Lara I am sending you a PM.

 

[AppyLover2]

It's pretty apparant that the people who are telling you to "get over it" have never lost a child. Ignore them!!! We all must grieve in our own way and in our own time. Nobody has the right to tell you when it should be over.

I pray that you find peace within yourself and that you can replace those disturbing images with happier ones. You know he wouldn't want you to remember only the bad.

Try some of the things Karla suggested with photographs. It certainly can't do any harm, and just might be exactly what you need.

God bless you!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Lara I am so sorry you are still having a tough time and my goodness who wouldnt be. I cant even imagine

But I know those images are very hard to get out of your head and to be honest I think they would donation or not.

I think no i KNOW that he would have wanted to help others in his death as that is what he did in his life.

It was made right for him when David made that decison. Wether the team did it wtih compassion or not well that is a issue that is to far gone to worry about now. Perhaps there need and pushing was seeing the other side the lives that can and would be saved

Joshua was a very giving and thoughful person who chose a way of life that enabled him to help and give back to others well aware it could mean his own life to do so. To me that choice alone- his choice- should give you the strength that you and David did exactly what he would have wanted.

I am so sorry you have those horrible images in your mind and yes that is the part you have to let go of. I know how difficult that can be. When i was a teen my live in boyfriend was shot 6 times right in front of me. That image of him full of holes and bloodied stayed with me for a long time and contributed to my downward spiral as a teen on a road of drugs and alcohol. It took to be honest years to get that image out and wonderful images back. My guilt is what held those images back.

I am sure as a mom you feel no matter how illogical it was your job to protect- you did a great job you raised wonderful sons the rest is out of our hands

I am so sure though i mean truly convinced that this is exactly what he would have wanted done (minus the shock to you of course)

As fas as talking to others in there own process of grieving.. I think that is one of the better things for all involved. Dont be afraid of being a burden sometims your talking and opening up will truly help someone else deal with there own grief.

You can always call me you know that

 

[LaraP]

Thank you all so much for your support. I just was really beginning to think that we were behind in the so called grieving process.. I was given a book, it goes into months after a loss.. Like in the third month afer a loss, you should be feeling this way or that way.. Hey, I tossed that book. Who ever wrote that book, I don't think they have ever lost someone.

Lisa, that had to be just horrible to watch someone you loved be shot like that in front of you. God Bless.

Pics, are a great idea, we also have a tee shirt that wasn't washed that Joshua had on the ship in his locker.. You should have seen the mess. LOL.. It looked like his room at home. David smells that everyday. I put it in a plastic bag so it didn't loss it's smell. My favorite pic of Joshua was when he was about 3, overhalls on.. He had fire in his eyes, they just sparkled. But it breaks my heart to look in his eyes. He was so happy. Then of course I go thru the IF's.. I hate the IF's.. If he wouldn't have joined the Navy, he would have been here with us.. But I do believe so much in God, and no matter where Josh was God needed him.. Maybe when I see Josh again. I will know what that was about.

I am having so much trouble eating still.. Being Diabetic I have to eat. I HATE FOOD. I have gone thru so many different emotions.. First, I refused to believe that Joshua was gone. It didn't look like Josh.. I don't think my mind would let me believe it. I lost days after his death. I don't remember somethings.

With all the people that died in New Orleans and Miss and now that horrible earthquake and it hurts me, but I guess I have a pityparty going on with what I LOST.. and this is horrible. I was asked by so many people, aren't you glad that he didnt live and is paralized or on respiator for the rest of his life? yeah know, I am so selfish that Yes I want him back.. NO MATTER.. How have I become so selfish?? Not taking into what suffering Joshua would have been thru.. Sometimes I wonder how I could have become such a horrible person.

After reading the EMTs report at the scene of the accident.. (which I don't know why I read that) he had a heartbeat or a pulse of 30. So did he know? Did he hurt? Did he cry for us? the medical examiner said that he had such massive head injuries, and his body was so injuried that he felt that Joshua didn't know anything. THAT HELPS.. But is it true?

I had fooled myself in believing that once we made it thru the funeral I would be okay.. It didn't dawn on me until they closed that casket and put it in the ground that I won't see him again. Even as little as he was, his hair was so soft. I know that makes no sense.

I have rambled on and on, sorry.. Once I get going on this my heart just opens up and it just all spills out.

Please know something I am not against organ donation.. Organ donations that truly give a person a second chance at life. But that wasn't an option with Joshua. We should of just left him alone. Its done, nothing I can do.. But I am against bone donations if they have to mutilate your love one.

 

[Heidi]

I don't know you, but I'd advise you to talk to Karin @ Narkar. I think you would both benefit if each of you would listen to the other, it could help to exchange the feelings/emotions and just get-it-out. Both of you have lost someone and would have more compassion for each other than another person who has not suffered such a loss would understand.

Grief takes its' own path with each person. There is no set time-limit or expiration date...it fades when it fades, it never leaves completely, and it is different for each person.

Heidi

 

[wcr]

I am so sorry for your loss and grieving. Any loss, wether it is sudden or an expected loss, always leaves a big hole in your life that only time can ease. You are not alone even if it feels that way. I would just like to share a few of my experiences.

I think it is a natural thing for our minds to play games on us to make us feel guilty. What if.... is a very popular mind game. The fact is we loved and gave while they were alive and we couldn't have changed the outcome no matter what we did. I had to turn my mind off everytime that one came up after my mother died because I did everything in my power for her and couldn't have been there for her any more or loved her any more than I did.

The last sight of our loved ones stays with us forever. I hear this one repeatedly. I can only tell you that time does ease the pain. You will have to take that one on faith.

As an old ER nurse, I have been present at deaths many times. I had to come to terms with death or I would have self destructed long ago. I can tell you that as soon as the heart stops the essence of the person is gone and only an empty shell remains. I suppose you can say the soul leaves the body. Whatever happens to the body after death has nothing to do with that special spark that was so unique to that one person.

I know what I have written won't change your grieving but know there are many people on this forum wishing you well and sending good thoughts your way.

Kathi

 

[chandab]

I don't know you, but I'd advise you to talk to Karin @ Narkar.  I think you would both benefit if each of you would listen to the other, it could help to exchange the feelings/emotions and just get-it-out.  Both of you have lost someone and would have more compassion for each other than another person who has not suffered such a loss would understand.Grief takes its' own path with each person.  There is no set time-limit or expiration date...it fades when it fades, it never leaves completely, and it is different for each person.

Heidi

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I agree, contact Karin.

When I was in college I lost my dad to cancer, I called my best friend to talk to her and found out then, from her husband, that her mom had past two days before. When we both got back from the funerals, we had lots of good talks. It was good to talk to someone who was going through the same thing at the same. Your grief definitely changes over time. I'm not good at expressing my thoughts on "paper", so don't wish to say anymore.

So sorry for your loss.

 

[nootka]

Lara, this is so hard to read. I can feel your pain and I know for a fact it will never fully leave you. The loss of a child is not natural and never expected, and it is supposed to be the other way around, not that that would be a lot easier, it is just more expected and the mind can prepare for it somehow.

We lost my brother in law, Bernie, in a car accident while he was training to be a policeman. He was 25, and had just found out his first child was on the way. The car flipped over into a canal and was buried in the water just enough that the two guys were under water. The car was going too fast first of all, and second of all, someone pulled out in front of them, so they swerved to avoid her, then hit another car and ended up in the ditch.

We have heard so much about Bernie's final moments, it is HEART RENDING. He WAS alive, however, he was not destined to stay that way. His neck had broken in the initial impact, so that when they tried to get out of the car, Bernie eventually became unable to fight to get out (he was at the beginning trying to kick the windows out so they could get out of the water, and talking to the other officer).

At some point, Bernie quit struggling and drowned. He had broken the first vertebrae right below his skull, and likely would have been paralyzed for life if he HAD survived.

It was just an awful ordeal, though, to cope with that sudden and unexpected loss of a young man. My sister chose not to donate organs, though Bernie would have been perfect for it and I think he might have chosen to, I bet it would have been harder because he had to endure two funerals, one here for all of his family in the Coast Guard and the Police and Emergency forces (there were hundreds, we had to rent the fairgrounds to accomodate them), and one back in Kansas, where his mom and father, brothers and extended family needed to see him to help come to grips with it. I am glad, looking back, that she didn't choose to, considering your situation.

I know this is probably nothing you need to read, but it helped me to go over things in my head. I was devastated and tried to "help" my sister grieve, but it doesn't work. One has to work through things at their own pace, and it sounds to me like you are doing what you need to.

I don't know that you CAN make it right for Joshua. You have to make it right for you, in his honor. Live like he can see you, I fully believe he is still somewhere around you, loving you, and hoping you can feel whole again. Think of the things that brought him joy, and maybe volunteer or donate, something....anything to help perpetuate his life within your heart. It is not a bad thing to think of him all the time, it is just so painful because he is so newly gone from you.

I wish I had better words and advice, but taking medication is unlikely, IMHO, to help you heal and find a new place from which to live your life in a productive and satisfying manner.

I can't imagine your pain....

Liz M.

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

Hon, everyone grieves at their own rate. No one ever just "gets over it." And we grieve at different rates for different people. We all love and attached to others in various ways, some of those ways are easier to deal with than others when we lose them. But when someone is so devastated they cannot heal from the grief on their own they may need some intervention to be able to move though the process of healing.

I'm sure your friends and family who you think are saying you need to get over it might actually be meaning, "We're worried that this grief is killing you." That they feel powerless to help you and are afraid they will lose you too. We know instinctually that when we have grieved for a long time it gets harder and harder to stop the cycle of pain, so that is the reason I think that anyone would try to tough love someone out of their pain. I don't think it's the right way but perhaps just one explanation why people are now trying to move you from it.

Grief and I have been on a first name basis since I was 8 years old and about destroyed my life over the years because I didn't have the kinds of medication that are very common now. Let me say that taking the right antidepressant medication therapeutically for depression with a qualifed psychiatric doctor to manage what you take is NOT taking some easy way out. You will not be dishonoring Joshua by healing. I doubt from what you have shared with us about Joshua and the wonderful person he was that he would EVER want you to be suffering as you are now because of him.

I'm no drug pusher but I strongly believe they can help under these circumstances to #1 decrease the crippling effects of grief and #2 allows you to reconnect somewhat with the way you felt before this terrible tragedy.

Best wishes and you will continue to be in my prayers to find the beginning of your healing journey.

 

[capall beag]

I am truly sad for you and for the ongoing pain you are feeling.

I do not know what it is like and cannot pretend to.

But I do know there is no right way to grieve or way to feel when something this tragic and painful occurs.

The greatest gift you can give yourself is to allow yourself to feel all of your feelings and emotions and make no apologies for them.

What you have been through with your sons death and then this horrible experience with the organ donor group is truly awful.

The only thing I would say is that your son loved you and your husband and he is not angry or upset with you and he would be unhappy to think that any decisions that were made after his death are continuing to haunt you.

I pray you and your husband can find peace with your decisions and know that this is unknown territory for parents and you did what you thought was right at the time under an extremely sad and emotional situation.

Joshua was at peace from the moment he passed, it is hardest on those left behind to pick up the pieces and carry on. It sounds to me like you and your husband did right by your son throughout his life and after his death. With hindsight and more knowledge you would perhaps have done things differently immediately after his death but you made the decision that seemed right in that moment.

How thoughtful of you to share your feelings, emotions and experiences so that others might learn from your experience.

My husband lost 2 of his siblings one at 23 and one at 27. 20 years later it is still terribly sad but over time the pain eases and the huge hole left by their passing shrinks it never goes away but it decreases enough to allow you to find a level of acceptance.

I pray your pain will start to ease soon and that you can find a way to forgive yourself, I KNOW your son has forgiven you if there ever was a need for any forgiveness??

sincerely,

Fiona

 

[Miniv]

Lara,

I've PM-ed you.....

I just came across a quote that someone shared with me once about Grief. I never did find out where it originated from, but thought this was a good time to pass it on:

Honor your grief. Honor your sadness. These are just states of being. Do honor to all these aspects of yourself and you will bring blessings upon the situation. Allow your tears to sanctify and annoint the process.

God bless,

MA

 

[hairicane]

Im sorry for your loss. I wish u and your family well and that you will all be able to get through this. U know Josh would not want u to suffer as u are so try and get through it for his sake. God Bless.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Although I don't know you I truly hear your pain not only in the loss of your son but how things were handled. I really hope and pray you will see that your son would not want you to continue suffering, over his death. He would want you to get professional help in working this grief out if it won't go away soon. His love for you would want to see you happy and living beyonf his death. I can only imagine how painful this is for you but try to remember it would only hurt Joshua to see you and youe hubby continue to suffer. Hugs, and I will pray you will again find happiness in your days ahead. Mary

When it comes to Joshua. I am sure by now most of you all are just sick of hearing about this. Its now been 8 months on the 16th that we lost Joshua. Family members altho they want to listen, say the same things. You guys just need to get over this, but I can't seem to do that. I have gone to Dr's, they want to medicate me, that isn't not what I want. I have gone to grief mangement, and they suggest I go to my Dr to get something to take for awhile to get over this. I have even found a chatroom. And that depresses me even more.

Ann Simmons, is probably my best friend. But she gets so upset, so I don't talk much about things with her, bless her heart. Karin at Narkar has more than once offered to talk with me, but goodness she just lost her husband, How can I dump something like this on her. That I feel isn't fair to her.

I actually have accepted his death, as has David. And we are comforted to know that he was needed by God, and that is why Joshua is no longer with us.

The hospital sent us all of Josh's medical records, enclosed in that were the EMT's records. I should have just tossed them out.

I know this is a very controversal subject, on organ donations. This is the part that i just can't get past... Joshua was exprired to long so the major organs, liver, kidneys etc couldn't be used. But yet David was pushed and pushed on donations. We hadn't even known for more than a hr that Joshua was gone. I truly think he agreed just get them the donor company to stop calling. But there was so much that David wasn't told. So many lies.  Now David has all this guilt. If we were told ALL of what would happen I know David would have said NO.

I am trying so hard not to get morbid, but I don't know how else to get this off my chest. I also know that Joshua was gone, and it doesn't matter what was done with his body after his death. BUT it matters to US.

Joshua, was 6ft 2" tall at the time of his death. When he got back to TN he couldn't have weighed 100 lbs.  He looked like a ten yr old little boy. We assumed it was from the accident, but found out that it wasn't.  I think the donation team should have told David to expect certain things when viewing Joshua. They were aware that we wanted him to be viewed.

I will NEVER in my whole life ever will get those images out of my head. The funeral home here in TN. called us when Joshua's body got to there facility. I was sick, scared and not know what to expect really. We knew that Joshua had some cuts on his face so I was preparing for that more than anything. But when the casket was open, it literally took my breathe away. His hair, had frost on it from the plane ride from Va and being under the plane, my first thought was he needed a blanket. I wanted to pick him up and hold him. He was so tiny.. I am sorry but I have got to get his off my chest and if MaryLou thinks its so morbid it won't hurt me to remove this post. I just have noone that I can tell about this.

When we found out WHY he was so little (which was just this week) I spent the enitre day in bed. David spent the entire day at the cemetary! I asked LifeNet if there is anyway that David or I could talk to the Dr's that did the removal. And I got no response from him. He changed the subject, so I asked again. He told me that there was no Dr's present. That surgical asst. did the removal. I called the funeral home in Va. that prepared Joshua and his words to me were "SHOCKING". Joshua had to be put in a plastic suit, under his Navy uniform just to keep the fluids from leaking out because of the number of incisions that the donor team made The funeral home in Va said that it was very hard for them to get Joshua prepared, and added that when a donor team gets ahold of a body that this happens more than not. Don't you think we should have been told?? It was nothing like Joshua could safe any lives with his donations. It was bones, to help people that have knee replacements, or back surgeries, and that there was no hurry in getting this done. But LifeNet told David, you have one hr to make up your mind or it will be to late.. THAT WAS NOT TRUE!!

Its done, no way we can take it back now. But how do we live with it??

I just need help understanding this... I think David has turned his attention mainly to the horses for comfort, I tend to want to get in fetal position and try to sleep days away.  Even at the horse sale that we went to yesterday, I feel wrong for enjoying my life. Joshua is ALWAYS on my mind.. How can I make this right for Joshua?

Thank you all for listening

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[Firefall]

Hi, I have been there.

We lost our 9 yr old daughter 1 week before her 10th birthday. Its been 3 1/2 yrs ago and at times it feels like yetserday. It hasn't been easy, never will. I guess time helps, but time just helps to learn to deal with the pain more than anything.

I have had people to tell me to get over it and it makes me sooo mad. They have no idea what its like but the ones that have been there understand.

Our precious little daughter was hit and killed when she was crossing the road on her brand new motorcycle that hubby had just brought home for her.

The accident was a few 100 feet from our house and I can still hear the screatching sounds of the pickup tires trying to stop. We were all outside, it was a nice hot summer afternoon. I immediately knew what it was..............something I had feared for a long time, a mothers premonition, who knows? But I to will never forget what I saw when I ran over to where it happened. Its a nightmare and always will be. After that is almost a blurr...............some images I have tried to put out of my mind but they still creep into my brain at night, when its bed time, its quiet and dark.

I still can't believe its been so long. I had a very hard time dealing, after some advice and nudging from loved ones I went to see the Doc. I've been on Zoloft since and it has helped me alot. Of course there is still pain and there always will be but I feel like I can sort of handle it now.

Anyway, thats how I got into mini's, God bless them, they have helped alot and to keep my mind of other things.

Thats my story, all I can say is hang in there, try not to think if possible. I wish I could say it gets easier but I'm not sure thats the right word for it. Your not alone, I wish I could give you a big hug............but I'm here if you need a shoulder.

 

[mountain_waif]

....

 

[LaraP]

My god, Firefall you must be super strong person to get thru what you have. How horrible. Maybe she is with Joshua. I will say a pray for you and your family!

Lois, I just don't feel that it was an even trade.. Maybe I am in a selfish mode right now or just to angry to feel that by what they did to Josh to get bone grafs to help people with back surgeries etc comes close to what was done to him. I would feel awhole lot better about this whole thing if Joshua's donation of life, could save a life a child, or someone that was sick waiting on a donor list to get that second chance at life then I would think it would be an even trade. I know that sounds terrible. But that is what is in my heart.

In our house we have what we call "bad Josh days". Sometimes its me, and David supports me, sometimes it's David and I support him. Its the days when we both have them together that is hard. Sometimes we just sit at the table and talk about all the fun times we had with him. He had an awesome sense of humor.

When he called home from his ship, and someone was with him, of course he made me talk to them too.. She is cool he'd say. Made me feel so good he wanted to share so much of his life with us. When he knew David was out of town working he would call and we would talk for hours. And we shared about everything. Somethings Joshua shared with me, I didn't want to hear.. TOO MUCH INFO JOSH..LOL but i would listen, I wanted him to know he could come to me with anything. And he did. So many memories, and such good times that I will always remember. Josh and I left nothing unsaid and for that I am grateful. Every end of our converstations always ended in I LOVE YOU. and I LOVE YOU TOO..

There is another lady that I talked to that lost her son right after I lost Joshua, we spent one day a few hrs on the phone, I am sure some of you know her as she has minis too, but feel that names aren't neccesary here. Our sons were so much alike it was strange. When she would talk I felt she was talking about Josh and she felt the same way.

In fact Joshua was different then the other boys. He was a restless spirit. He wanted to live life and RIGHT NOW. I once told David Joshua is trying to live all his life in a short time he is in such a hurry.. Maybe somehow he knew? I have always wondered that. Is it possible that subconsiouly he knew that he needed to live it all now cuz he would only be here for a short time?

Well, I think I depressed enuff people for one Sunday.. I thank you all for your kind words and encouragement.

I am not sure who said this, but someone told me, the reason Joshua looked so little in the casket was cuz his soul was gone!! That is something I do think about.. and it does ease some pain.

Lara Pier

 

[CAM]

I have PM'd you.

 

[Marty]

Lara, we don't know eachother but the pain you are in is so tremendous and I don't feel you have even begun to heal. So many things went on connected with your loss that I think is adding to your burden.

Have you considered speaking to your pastor or go into some kind of counseling with your husband? I know there is grief counselling around and I am just feeling that it could possibly help you deal with this horrible tradgedy.

I'll say some prayers for healing for you and your husband. (((( ))))

 

[LisaF.]

Lara,

I don't even know the words to say to you. I know you are living my worst nightmare. I can't even imagine loosing a child.

I do feel like some medication would help you and your husband for at least awhile.

I do know about the what if's to a certain extint. My mother lost her sister to a car accident last December...she had called my mother the night before and my mother didn't call her back and thought she would the next morning...well, before she called her the car accident happened. My mother is still blaming herself for not calling her that night. I know that is no comparison to what your son went through and to be honest I would be angry for them not telling you everything in the beginning also. But, it sounds like what your son wanted so you done the right thing by him.

We just have to remember God needed him and he is in such a better place than this world could ever be.

I am just SO SORRY and I only wish I knew what to say.

You and your husband are in my prayers.

I also do not think you should keep your feelings bottled up inside of you. Please always feel free to come here and talk.