Don't know what to do

[PMMinis]

I need to vent. I bought a filly from a person who is reputable. Checked references, had photos of the filly emailed to me. I was told she was perfect, legs teeth, could be shown. Sounded great, photos looked good, references checked and I bought the filly. Signed a contract that said there were no warranties and I should have known something was up cause warranties were made in the email. Had the filly transported to a friends to be bred. Went to see the filly and OMG! toed out in the front and her hooves were completely trimmed at the wrong angle so she is walking on stilts. This could explain her toeing out. Her bite is off, only by less than a quarter inch but still off. I was told she was a little over 34", but this girl is pushing 35". She is terrified to be handled and is almost 3 years old. We have been trying to breed her, which I mentioned in an early post, but her cycles are off. I know I shouldn't breed her because of her flaws but am convinced it is due to her caps falling off and poor hoof management. I honestly don't want the mare cause she isn't what she was talked up to be. I also realized that the photos were from last year and not current so she could have gone off in the last year. I tried talking to the lady I bought her from and she insists the problems are fixable and that I was only looking for a broodmare. She told me she is broodmare quality.....well no she isn't. Now she won't answer my emails at all. I don't want my money back but I would like some peace of mind. The mare really is gorgeous. She is a Redboy granddaughter and is put together nicely but due to not keeping on top of things she has shifted and I'm kinda scared to see what she throws, if I can gain her trust, or if we can even get her bred. Then what happens if she has breeding issues and aborts. I'm in a frazzle. I don't know if I should sell a mare I just bought. I knida feel bad.

 

[luv2ridesaddleseat]

You're breeding a TWO year old??????

 

[PMMinis]

No, she'll be three in a month or so. I know better than that

 

[Reble]

First sorry to hear this has happen to you.

The teeth can be fixed being only 3 years old, maybe a bit of filing might just help? not sure.

feet just need a better farrier, and she might just need time to settle into her new home before trying to breed, let her come home with you for this year get her relaxed and fixed up a bit and than decide again if you want to breed her? I would not give up yet on the little girl, and just might be her feet can be adjusted also with her height, sounds like needs time to settle and know she is cared for.

Again it is so sad but must admit the saying is buyer be ware.

Your contract being you only seen pictures should have not had that line no warranties, you do have the right to change things in the contracts or walk.

Some, or most might be able to be fixed. Good Luck

 

[~Lisa~]

I am sorry but if you want an honest answer do not breed her now. You are going on assumptions she will not throw a toed out foal with an off bite. Get this horse used to being handled, get her feet in order, vaccinated, de-wormed, teeth looked at and comfortable in her new surroundings. She does not need to be bred now simply due to the fact she is 3.

Her cycles may end up becoming regular- and you will have time to see what you really have before you breed her and pass things on.

Wanted to add the term no warranties expressed or implied is pretty standard wording in any horse sale contract. This is why many suggest or will choose to do a vet check prior to purchase

 

[PMMinis]

Thats what I am hoping, but she said a few months ago she noticed her bite was off. This was after I had the horse. I asked her why she didn't tell me and she said cause I was looking for a broodmare and she didn't think it was important. Well, broodmares I believe should be correct as well. I was told breeding her actually may help her calm down as she will know she is pregnant and be more aware of things around her. She won't act like a skitzo so much. My friend says she thinks someone was rough with her and pushed her around a little and thats why she won't walk nice. SHe bulks back like a mule. You can tell she wants to be with you but is afraid she is being naughty. She knows what no means, thats for sure but when you tell her no she gets the fear of god in her eyes. I have the farrier scheduled for the 15th to see what he can do but the dentist can't come my way til September cause he is so far away. I'll give her a chance. It was just a shock to spend all that money and then have something that you definately were not expecting. Don't get me wrong though, she is gorgeous and would mix well with my stud but I just worry, lol.

 

[PMMinis]

" You are going on assumptions she will not throw a toed out foal with an off bite. Get this horse used to being handled, get her feet in order, vaccinated, de-wormed, teeth looked at and comfortable in her new surroundings. She does not need to be bred now simply due to the fact she is 3."

Oh I assure you no assumptions are being made, thats why I said I don't know if I want to breed her now. She has had her vaccinations and worming done. Farrier comes in a week but can't do teeth til September. Whats wrong with her being 3? I thought that was good cause then they foal at 4 when they have pretty much done most of their growing. Am I wrong?

 

[luv2ridesaddleseat]

I guess I mis-read that you have been trying to breed this mare and that she is still two. Think I need more coffee.

 

[Riverdance]

The feet issue could possibly be from incorrect farrier work. Many Mini people do their own feet and if the angles are incorrect, there could be toeing out issues.

She obviously has not been handled much and is scared. She is on a new farm with strange horses and strange people and you are trying to breed her right away. She needs time to settle in, get comfortable with her surroundings and be handled on a daily basis. Remember she is only 3, many mares are still not ready to be bred at 3 years old, some are not mature enough till they are 4.

I got one that I bought who was as wild as she could be, Would try to turn herself inside out and would bowl me over when I tried to catch her. Her feet were a mile long, she was emaciated and she was just a mess.(this one was from a well known farm who has since gone out of business) I brought her into the barn and put her in a stall. Had her feet done correctly and handled her every day. Pluse I feed her 3x a day to get the weight back on her. I did noteven try and breed her that year. It was more important to get her comfortable with me, her surroundings and in good weight. The following year I bred her. She has now had two foals for me that are ultra refined, up headed, long slim necks as eligant a filly as one could hope for. One has motion to die for.(my advatar picture) Two beautiful fillies that I am keeping.

As for height, each farm measures a bit differently. Heck, if one shows, you will find from week to week, show to show, your horse measuring differently in height. One week it may be 30", a week later 31". I know, I have had that happen more than you could believe. If the mare is scared and uncomfortable, she will hunch up and the measuring will give you a taller height then what the last owner could have gotten with a more relaxed mare.

The bite. What do you consider off? Not all bites are even in the font, in some, the front teeth are over the lower teeth by a bit, kind of like a good human bite. That too is perfectly acceptable. If you go on line and look at correct bites, you will see pictures of bites like this that are fine. If you talk with Carl Mitz, he too will tell you that kind of bite is correct. I have a stallion who has a bite like that. He was an AMHA Grand Champion Stallion 7x and a Reserve Grand Champion 1x at only 2 shows. He was also an AMHA Central Regional Champion, 4th at Central as s Senior stallion against many trainers and was 11th (yea I know bummer) at the AMHA World with a class of over 35 horses. All owner handled. Carl had seen his bite as I was concerned, and he told me that it was just fine.

Perhaps you are just not happy with the mare and she is not fitting the picture that you have of her in your mind.

I would step back and regroup. Start with getting your mare used to being handled and comfortable with her surroundings. Quite trying to breed her right now. It is just an added stress for the mare. Get her feet trimed correctly and have her bite looked at. Concentrate on your mare and not about getting a foal out of her this year.

If you decide to resell her, you will have a better chance of getting her sold if she has calmed down and is willing to be handled.

 

[Genie]

I beg to differ with the lady who says " because you wanted a broodmare, the faults are not important".

I think one of the things I have learned here on this forum is....that I am breeding "the best to the best for the best".

I would never knowingly buy a broodmare that I didn't feel was good conformation, bite on, and in good health, with the disposition I wanted in my foals.

My experience, and I am not an expert, has been that nervous and "jumping out of their skins" mares do not easily hold a pregnancy.

 

[~Lisa~]

"Oh I assure you no assumptions are being made, thats why I said I don't know if I want to breed her now.

I am sorry I must have misread I could have sworn you said you have been trying to breed her and that this was the same mare you wrote about a couple days ago who had been covered already.

 

[PMMinis]

Her top teeth are about a tooths wideth over her bottom. My other mares teeth all set right on top of the bottom teeth. Thats why I consider it off. I know by AMHA standards its still fine but I guess I thought it would still be bad to bre a horse with that. I guess I'll bring her home then and do what you say, however she maybe already bred. I didn't even go see the mare til two weeks after she was delivered so I had no idea she was a nervous wreck. I feel really bad now. My friend has been working with her and said she is coming around for her but since she doesn't see me everyday, its hard to catch her until she decides I'm okay. Then she will walk over and let me halter her. But once you try to lead her she doesn't want to go. I'm not saying she was dished beatings but I'm not saying they didn't either. I don't know what they did to make her afraid to lead. Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll definately fallow it. My hope has been restored.

 

[Riverdance]

Thats what I am hoping, but she said a few months ago she noticed her bite was off. This was after I had the horse. I asked her why she didn't tell me and she said cause I was looking for a broodmare and she didn't think it was important. Well, broodmares I believe should be correct as well. I was told breeding her actually may help her calm down as she will know she is pregnant and be more aware of things around her. She won't act like a skitzo so much. My friend says she thinks someone was rough with her and pushed her around a little and thats why she won't walk nice. SHe bulks back like a mule. You can tell she wants to be with you but is afraid she is being naughty. She knows what no means, thats for sure but when you tell her no she gets the fear of god in her eyes. I have the farrier scheduled for the 15th to see what he can do but the dentist can't come my way til September cause he is so far away. I'll give her a chance. It was just a shock to spend all that money and then have something that you definately were not expecting. Don't get me wrong though, she is gorgeous and would mix well with my stud but I just worry, lol.

Any horse that has not been handled much is going to walk like that, and back off the halter like a Mule. She is not used to walking correctly on a lead, she is not used to even walking on a lead This does not mean she has been misshandled.

Breeding a wild horse is not going to make her better to handle once she foals, and she may pass off her fears to her foal.

How long have you had her now? Sounds like a while (a few months?) and you have not gotten the farrier out to see her feet yet? You need to step back and look at what is best for the horse and not worry about breeding.

You say she is gorgeous in one breath, then say she has all these faults in another. Are you just looking for something negative because she is hard to handle?

All I can say is regroup and start from the beginning. Teach her to relax, that people are not something to fear, teach her how to properly walk on a lead and KEEP THAT STALLION AWAY FROM HER for now!!! You are only compounding her fears.

 

[PMMinis]

I have only had her for 3 weeks and the farrier is coming the 15th so please don't flame me. I'm not worried about having a baby, I was obviously mislead, but told the hormones from pregnancy relax a mare cause they don't want to hurt or kill the fetus. Appearently thats wrong. She is gorgeous. Refined, long slender neck thats very hooky, clean throat latch, dished head, nice shoulder and hip, level topline. A horse can still be gorgoeus but toed out a little. I don't mind that she can't be handled and I'm not looking for anything negative. If that be the case I wouldn't have made it public on what is going on. I just didn't know what to do cause I being told different things and I didn't know what was true and what was not. SORRY

 

[kaykay]

In this mares defense i will say that anytime you move a horse they are stressed and will act differently. Especially being moved and then bred for the first time etc. Thats a lot of new stuff to put on a horse all at once. You may find after she settles in that shes fine but it takes time.

 

[PMMinis]

I was quite surprised. I've had horses shipped before that came off the trailor happy go lucky. Horses that have never been in a trailor. I guess I assumed that she would be fine, going by what I was told from where I bought her from. I only have 3 other horses so I have all the time in the world for her. How should I start her out with being comfortable leading? Will her age influence anything?

 

[Marty]

What is the rush to breed this filly?

Why do you have to have her bred right now this year? Also if she has to be tranqualized for her teeth, and yes some horses are, that is also no good for a horse you are trying to get in foal.

Why can't you just bring her home and befriend her and work with her, let her grow, learn to trust, and mature a little bit this year? Spend some time with her training and sitting with her under the old apple tree, that sort of thing getting to know each other.

Then, you can spend some time here on the forum, and learn and get educated from some of the best of the best breeders things you obviously need to know because it seems to me you are listening to a bunch of BS from someone that doesn't know squat.

Besides, if she is such a nervous wreck, there is a good chance she won't settle for you and abort anyway so why put her through all that?

I'm sorry things turned out for you the way they did, but take a deep breath and slow down and think this through.

Best wishes.

 

[PMMinis]

ONCE again, thats why I came here. And ONCE again if you read my other posts, I am going to bring her home and quit trying. So you don't need to be pizzed off. I think I could have done without that. You want me to learn from the best. I'm trying but it hasn't been a nice experience cause I'm under assumptions now. I don't know who is telling me BS and whos not cause I don't know. I'm trying to learn and I don't know who knows facts and false. Gee wiz, this is frustrating.