Does This Sound Right?

[StarRidgeAcres]

Initially, I was just going to do this without questioning it and I am all for still helping these people, but it's starting to not make sense to me. Here's the situation...

Some people contacted me that own a colt (believe he's around 3 years old now) out of a mare I used to own. At the time the colt was foaled this mare was AMHA only. This past March (4 months ago) I hardshipped her into AMHR. I've since sold the mare, but she hasn't been transferred out of my name yet. Side note: I've been in touch with current owner and kept them up to date that this is going on. So, according to this owner of the colt, they were told by AMHR that I need to complete a tranfer on the colt in order for them to get him R registered.

So, I'm supposed to assign a date, agree to a height and sign my name that I'm "selling/transferring" a horse that I've never owned, never seen, never knew existed. Does that sound right? Shouldn't the breeder of the colt complete the transfer and sign it?

I want to help these people - although they've been a bit snippy with me which I totally don't get - but I can understand them wanting to get the colt registered.

Thoughts?

 

[minimomNC]

Get the current owners of the mare to transfer her into their name and if they are the breeders of the colt then they will be the ones to sign the transfer. This happens when people buy horses that are not AMHR but find out that both parents are, its not really their fault, its just cheaper to get people to sign transfers than to pay $460 to hardship and lose the pedigree. I would just get the mare into someone elses name like it should have been and then its not your issue.

 

[muffntuf]

I had this happen two years ago on a pony. I had to go to the original breeder of the mare and they had to do all the paperwork and then I ended up transferring the foal into my name. But his name was on as the breeder and as the owner at the time, the mare never got transferred. So it all went back to him, the original breeder/owner.

I take it the colt was foaled before you owned the mare, that wasn't clear to me. So you transferred the mare after you bought her and then hardshipped her into AMHR. BUT you were not the breeder of the mare nor the owner at the time of the foaling of the colt. Goes back to the person on the paperwork at the time of foaling.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Get the current owners of the mare to transfer her into their name and if they are the breeders of the colt then they will be the ones to sign the transfer. This happens when people buy horses that are not AMHR but find out that both parents are, its not really their fault, its just cheaper to get people to sign transfers than to pay $460 to hardship and lose the pedigree. I would just get the mare into someone elses name like it should have been and then its not your issue.

Thanks for your response Karen. But I have a question/clarification. I realize if the mare is transferred out of my name then I no longer have to be bothered with these people, but I also don't want to just shove the responsibility onto the new owners of the mare as it's no more their responsibility than it's mine. The breeder of the colt is the person I bought the mare from in 2008. I believe the colt is a 2007 colt. Just seems to me that THEY (breeder of the colt) should sign the transfer and not me or the new owners of the mare - since we technically had nothing to do with the colt. We weren't the breeders, we weren't the sellers, etc.

Again, I'm willing to help these people, I just wanted opinions as to if this is the right thing for me to do. Seems weird to be signing documents that aren't "real."

 

[targetsmom]

I happen to be the current owner of the mare and as mentioned, I was told about this. But I am even farther from this than Parmela is!! I have the paperwork all set to send in (along with a whole bunch of other paperwork on the mare, her foal and other horses!). I have to admit that this has happened to me when buying minis that I didn't know were AMHR eligible, and I ended up either hardshipping into R or just forgetting about it.

 

[Allure Ranch]

I understand your confusion over this issue.... It truly confused me when I had a stallion several years ago that I wanted to AMHR register. I purchased the horse for the breeder and he eventually sold the dam/mare sometime later. The new owner decided to register the mare AMHR and therefore I was required to have her sign the registration/transfer paperwork for my stallion even though she wasn't the breeder and I didn't purchase him from her.

 

Sounded like fraud to me.... to falsify information.

 

Needless to say I argued the issue with the AMHR and told them that I didn't see why the breeder wasn't the individual that would be required to sign all the necessary paperwork. But my issue of concern feel on deaf ears. So it's either you do it there way which is completely WRONG; or you just don't do it at all.

 

They really need to work on that particular policy.... and realize that whomever bred/produced the horse should be the signer.

 

[Minimor]

IMO it is wrong of AMHR to ask you to sign this paperwork. The thing is, this was all before you had anything to do with this mare. By signing a transfer you are certifying things that really are not true--and according to wording on the paperwork, it is against the rules/by-laws of the registry to sign your names to things that are untrue...by the way, who is signing the original registration application? Is that up to you too?

What happens if somewhere down the road someone does some DNA & discovers that this horse really isn't out of this mare after all? Not likely, but could happen I suppose. Before signing anything I would want to know 100% for sure that this could never ever come back to bite you in the butt. I don't believe in signing anything that I don't have personal knowledge of. It's nice to help someone out, but if there's any chance that it could cause problems for you later then it's not worth it.

 

[minimomNC]

Sorry, I was thinking it was out of a mare you sold, after you sold her not before you bought her.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I really appreciate all the thoughts. It sure feels wrong to do, but I don't blame the owners of the colt, I blame the registry. And as for who signs the original registration paperwork, well, I don't know. You'd think if the breeder is doing that they could easily complete the transfer also. I'm not blaming them either. It's not really anyone's fault (although the owner of the colt sort of acted like it was mine for not hardshipping her as soon as I bought her

) it's just a really odd situation.

The registry probably needs to rethink their position on this.

 

[Debby - LB]

I went through this exact same thing Parmela. Since you hardshipped her it's you they will look to...or I should say it's you who AMHR will tell them to look to for signing this all. The Mare wasn't in the registry when the rightful owners had her and the colt so according to them you are the breeder. AMHR told the people to have me do what you are describing. Debby

 

[Songcatcher]

I really appreciate all the thoughts. It sure feels wrong to do, but I don't blame the owners of the colt, I blame the registry. And as for who signs the original registration paperwork, well, I don't know. You'd think if the breeder is doing that they could easily complete the transfer also. I'm not blaming them either. It's not really anyone's fault (although the owner of the colt sort of acted like it was mine for not hardshipping her as soon as I bought her

) it's just a really odd situation.

The registry probably needs to rethink their position on this.

Pardon me if this sounds blunt. It's been a long hot day. But, it is the fault of the person who bought a single registered horse and wants a double registered horse for nothing. Why should they expect you, who had nothing to do with any of the situation, to lie in order to save them some money? I have nothing against saving money. I have nothing against helping people, but I would NOT sign a lie to help someone save some money.

They bought a single registered horse. If they are not happy with it, they can spend the money to have it hardshipped into R or they can sell it and spend the money to buy a double registered horse.

 

[Sandee]

Pardon me if this sounds blunt. It's been a long hot day. But, it is the fault of the person who bought a single registered horse and wants a double registered horse for nothing. Why should they expect you, who had nothing to do with any of the situation, to lie in order to save them some money? I have nothing against saving money. I have nothing against helping people, but I would NOT sign a lie to help someone save some money.

They bought a single registered horse. If they are not happy with it, they can spend the money to have it hardshipped into R or they can sell it and spend the money to buy a double registered horse.

Blunt is the nicest word. We all know that it's goofy but this is the way the "office" has handle this type situation, well, forever. They can only go by the paperwork they have in their office. So in their records you own the AMHR mare; hence you are needed to sign any papers for foals out of that mare.

We had to go back on a foal that I purchased. It seems that the mare was registered AMHR but her paperwork did not follow her thru all the sales. We had to go back to the original "owner" and ask her to sign the papers for this foal. It's NOT a lie according to the paperwork in the office you have been the only "owner" of this mare (yes even if it's after the foal was born) so you are the one they want the signature from.

Cheap? Maybe but when it's only a signature that doesn't cost you (I'm assuming that they are paying the fees -the stallion/breeder did for me)then why not help someone out?

 

[targetsmom]

Now I am beginning to feel like I bought a hot potato, through no fault of mine or the seller!!! As soon as I send in the transfer papers, then I will be one in the hot seat as far as AMHR is concerned. And Parmela will be off the hook. And I admit, I tend to agree with Songcatcher - when in this position myself, I just hardshipped the mare.

(And yes, this un-transferred mare is the same mare that was just attacked by my big horse, Target... see my thread. Good thing I really like this mare!!)

 

[Sandee]

Now I am beginning to feel like I bought a hot potato, through no fault of mine or the seller!!! As soon as I send in the transfer papers, then I will be one in the hot seat as far as AMHR is concerned. And Parmela will be off the hook. And I admit, I tend to agree with Songcatcher - when in this position myself, I just hardshipped the mare.

(And yes, this un-transferred mare is the same mare that was just attacked by my big horse, Target... see my thread. Good thing I really like this mare!!)

Actually I'm not sure that the office would want your signature. You might have to check on that. If she brought the mare into AMHR, then she is the "original owner" on their papers and if the colt is from before that they might insist on her signature rather than someone that just got the mare thru a transfer.

 

[minimomNC]

Just to make it easier on all of you and since AMHR has no problem with you signing the paperwork, just ask them to send you a copy of the AMHA papers showing the horse is indeed the offspring of the horses on the AMHR application and that he belongs to them. They will also have to go through the owner of the stallion for a breeders certificate and late stallion report, so its not done for them even with your signature.

Since the day AMHR told me that a person can register all of their foals as being sired by a stallion they hadn't owned in six years because the AMHR papers were still in their name, was the day I really didn't care anymore. I would sign the papers and not think twice about it. This is why my A size horses are AMHA and my B size horses are ASPC.

 

[Allure Ranch]

Actually they'll want Parmela's signature because she is the one on record that registered the mare with them. That's the way that works.... overall it's no one's fault. The AMHR just needs to change there policy on this issue.

 

In the long run you just need to realize the benifit.....

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

this is why my minis are AMHA only, i find AMHR a bit to complicated...

if it were me, i wouldnt do it. i would feel guilty and like i should be arrested or something because that is falsifying paperwork. i agree with songcatcher, if they're not happy with having a single registered horse then they should either pay the hardship fee or sell the horse and use the money to buy what they want. you said they were being snippy and acting like its your fault

if i was them i would be kissing your butt for doing this!! that right there is enough to make me say screw it, let them pay for it!!

 

[Mini Gaits Farm]

Parmela,

Since you "hardshipped" the mare with AMHR, then you are the only owner on her papers. You are the only one to sign. I don't blame the buyer for wanting to get AMHR papers on the colt. This kind of thing happens all of the time. It is the way AMHR does things. Actually you are the only owner that they have on record for this mare. If the colt already has his AMHA papers, then he is who they say he is....no problem. I do tons of horse paperwork, believe me....this wouldn't bother me at all. I would do it for the new owner without a problem. $460 is a steep price to hardship a colt, especially when there are other options. Best of luck.

 

[Songcatcher]

I've looked back over this after a good night's sleep and see thinigs a bit differently.

Since according to AMHR, you ARE the original owner of the horse, it does make a bit more sense for you to sign it, although as you said to begin with, it doesn't seem quite right. HOWEVER, the new owners have no right to EXPECT you to sign a transfer. They bought a single registered colt. If you give them a signed transfer, it is a gift, and they should be extremely appreciative, and not EXPECT it from you.

 

[Mini Gaits Farm]

Parmela...so funny after I investigated this a little....I know the colt "personally".....I can assure you that his breeding is correct. I am sure the owner didn't mean to sound harsh...I also know her...it is her personality...in person she is better than on the phone or in writing. I really did not know that this was the colt when I initially posted, but again....I would do it for her. I have done business with her and found her to be very honest and willing to help when needed. Remember dear....not everyone has your exceptionally nice personality.....

again...best of luck...but rest assured that his AMHA papers and breeding are correct for this colt.