Cart and Harness Fit Questions

[Quester]

Hi, I want to train my mare to drive. I have already started groundwork. I am not new to horses and very confident in my abilites. This is only for pleasure. She is just a nice little 31.75" mare, five years old and wants a job. She doesn't have prime conformation to be an amazing driving mare and I know that, but I think she is more than capable and would love the work. My problem is, I have NO clue about harnesses and carts (well I could fake it but I want it to be right). SO, if I give a list of my specific questions, can anyone help me out some? Thanks in advance.

K, so I bought a cart and harness for $300. The cart seems nice enough, a little easy entry and it is in good shape.

1. I am not sure on the shaft length, I also don't know the "proper" way to measure the shafts but would be happy to if someone wanted to tell me how.

2. However, it seems SO wide, like it sticks out SO far from her sides...how far is too far and how close is too close for the shafts to be? I think it sticks out like 6" from her sides, it seems too far/wide for her but I don't know.

3. How does one go about checking the balance of a cart and how do you know what tire size you need?

4. If the shafts are too long/wide, can they be fixed or adjusted so they fit better by way of welding or bending etc?

5. Okay, now the harness, the one I bought seems too big and doesn't seem to have the rear breaching. I want the harness to fit right, does anyone have a comment on the harnesses from Ozark? Quality and is their sizing accurate?

As I said, I am not planning to show etc, but I want things to be right so my horse is sound and comfy. Thanks everyone!

P.S. I am in Northern Utah if anyone who is confident in their knowledge reading this, wants to help me out in person.

 

[candycar]

I'm no expert, but here's what I've learned form my limited experiance and from this forum. If your cart and harness are really out of whack, or seem to be too big, you may have a pony set-up instead of a mini set-up.

1. I am not sure on the shaft length, I also don't know the "proper" way to measure the shafts but would be happy to if someone wanted to tell me how. I measure from the tip to the back cross bar where they join. the bend in the shaft shouldn't make that much difference in a straight measure. For your little one about 45-47 inches is the norm.

2. However, it seems SO wide, like it sticks out SO far from her sides...how far is too far and how close is too close for the shafts to be? I think it sticks out like 6" from her sides, it seems too far/wide for her but I don't know. 17-20 inches wide at the point where the shaft loops would sit is a good measurement. The shafts will widen as they go back.

3. How does one go about checking the balance of a cart and how do you know what tire size you need? Pretend you are the horse. Hold the shafts where the shaft loops would sit (approx 9-10 inches from the tip) If you have to, scrunch down so the cart sits approx level. Have someone sit in the cart like you would when driving. There should't be too much weight pressing on your hands. The cart should feel like it's "floating". Standard tire size is 20 inches and seems to fit most minis. 18 inches might be ok for a very short horse. As long as when hitched the shafts don't point down, or up too far. They should be close to level.

4. If the shafts are too long/wide, can they be fixed or adjusted so they fit better by way of welding or bending etc? I've bent some in using my own strength, or a pipe bender works great. If they are too long cut the tips off. Try to get them even!

5. Okay, now the harness, the one I bought seems too big and doesn't seem to have the rear breaching. I want the harness to fit right, does anyone have a comment on the harnesses from Ozark? Quality and is their sizing accurate? Many folks here love the Ozark harness. It's a good buy, quality without being too expensive. They will work with you to get the right measurements and fit.

Hope that helps some. Good luck! Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken in my relpy!

 

[Quester]

Thanks so much for your answers, it helps a lot. Give me that much more direction. My husband is wondering if bending the shafts is potentially bad for the pipe and its strength, will it weaken it, this cart is MUCH wider than 17-20 inches but I do believe the tires are 20" I will measuere the shafts and see how long they are.

Also, with the shafts, they should hit the horse about the point of the shoulder? A little further back than point? They shouldn't go past the point in front? I have seen horses in cart that are using the shaft loops and horses that are not, is the goal to have the shaft loops in the proper place in comparison to the harness or does it really not matter or or the people I have seen not using them just trying to make a cart work that technically doesn't fit their horse properly?

 

[Minimor]

Shaft loops--are you referring to the loops on the shafts themselves? Often those loops are actually footmans loops, where you wrap the hold back straps. A few carts have loops on the shafts just ahead of where the shaft loops (as in straps that hang down from the back saddle--the shafts run through these) hang--this forward placement is intended for harness that uses the wrap straps as holdbacks, when the harness doesn't have breeching. So, using/not using these loops generally has nothing to do with cart fit.

Shaft tips should be at the point of shoulder--not further ahead because the horse could poke himself in the nose if he turns his head and not further back because the tip could poke his shoulder in a turn. If your shafts are too long and you cut them off, be sure that the remaining part can be bent to fit narrower at the front. Cutting off the ends often results in the shafts being shaped wrong.

Bending the shafts can weaken them--doing it once, carefully, is okay, many people have done this with no problem. Just make sure it is done carefully because they can crack on the first attempt if you are too forceful.

I use 54" shafts that are about 18" wide at the narrowest part. For your smaller horse 48 or 49" is likely good and those are generally 15" wide I think--they vary of course depending on make of the cart.

 

[Quester]

Can you tell me what you consider a "smaller" horse that would need 15" wide? Man this cart is a LOT wider than 18"...

 

[Minimor]

Sorry, I did mean to clarify--by "smaller" I meant under 34", or in your case under 32"--I drive 36-38" horses so they need the 54" shafts with a little more width between them. Initially I had a cart with 48" shafts and it was just too small for my over 35" horses. I have measured the width of a friend's EE cart--she drives horses the size of yours--but offhand I don't remember for sure what it was--I think 15".

I would say that you don't want the shafts to be more than a couple of inches out from the horse's sides. I've got a pony cart here that has a shaft width of 23" and it is WAY too wide even for my widest 42" pony--it has wooden shafts so I am going to have to find someone to make a narrower set of shafts for it.

I meant to say too--you mention that your harness doesn't have breeching--if the rest of the harness fit properly you can buy breeching to add to it (might need a new back strap too, if you're doesn't have the space for the hipstrap to go through).

As for your question about the Ozark harness--I think you would be very happy with it. My first good fitting harness was their pleasure harness--it fit my 33" (very slight) gelding and adjusted up to fit my 36-38" ones as well. The only thing I needed to replace for them was the breeching (fit 33" perfectly but was too small for the bigger ones) and I also bought a pony size belly band--I do not like the short little belly bands that come with a standard Mini harness. If you were to send in your horse's measurements the gals at Ozark would make sure the harness fits. Likewise with their carriage harness, which is the next step up from the pleasure harness, if you wanted to spend a little more.

 

[Quester]

Okay, very good information, thank you so much, we are going to work at getting the cart right for her. If I have to have new shafts made I will. I think I will buy a new harness though, one that is more fitted to her, not missing nay pieces and matches, this one has mitchmatching pieces, some are black and some are brown...I don't know what is up with the shafts, it seems too wide even for ponies! I think somebody might have messed with it down the line...

 

[Quester]

Okay I measured it, it is 23" at the narrowest point between each shaft and they are 48" long, I am going to try to bend them and make them more narrow, if I can not, I guess I will try to buy a new shaft piece that is correct for her size.