Buyers advice to a seller

[Carolyn R]

Riverdance, trust me I know all about mud, we live at the bottom of a mountain. Any acerage I use must be cleared one tree at a time. I don't think you'll find a woman in a 20 mile radius that can work a chainsaw, drop a tree, or drive a tractor much better than I can. When it rains, we have underground springs that pop up all over, our winters aren't exactly peachy either.I just about fell on my can when I slipped on the ice outside tonight. Its been a whopping average 23 degrees every night for the past week or more.

I am not new to big horses or minis, I have had horses all of my life. I do know that if I am going to spend $2000-$3000 on a horse and ask for a shot to make sure that,as I said, it doesn't have any large shaved patches on the neck (indicative of a cath being placed) or to make sure that when I am told its feet are well taken care of, that they are(nothing worse than spending 3 months reshaping a hoof), if that requires bringing a horse in overnight, letting the dirt dry, then brushing it off, so be it, I am not talking about an immaculate horse, just presentable.

We are not poor, but we are not rich, when I spend that kind of money on a horse, it is hard earned money, and if someone wants my money I expect no more of an effort than I would put forward myself. Maybe I hold myself to a high standard and am just dissapointed when others do not do the same.

Keep in mind, when I am looking for a horse, I initially only ask for semi recent photos (wihin approx. 6 months) if I have really narrowed down my search, that is when I ask for a plain Jane recent photo. trust me, each and every one of my horses I currently have with the exception of one, I have gotten/or signed a contract and payed on in the off season. The sellers have supplied me with summer photos and ones that were taken more recent to the sale, didn't change my mind one bit. I have walked away from a sale when a seller has refused to take one current up close shot of each side just to set my mind at ease.

 

[Minimor]

It's a good thing I'm not trying to sell any horses now; this is what mine tend to look like in the winter time.

I don't believe most people can see anything much of the horse under all this fur--I don't clip anything this time of year, no amount of brushing is going to make the horse show up any better, because all that hair just doesn't lay flat no matter what!

This time of year I generally do morning chores in the dark, and evening chores in the dark, and am at work in the daylight hours in between, so photos could be taken only on weekends...and if the weekend happens to be 35 below or even just 15 below with a howling wind, I'm not going to be out there messing about trying to take photos. In view of that I wouldn't expect anyone else to be taking photos either, if I were looking to buy. I'd want to see summer/fall photos. I don't mind buying fuzzy horses if I can go & see them in person; buying fuzzy horses from photos is more difficult, because you just can't tell how much is really the horse and how much is just bad photography. If you're right there and the horse is standing in front of you, you can get get a much better idea of what the horse is like than if you were looking at the same horse in photos. Or at least I can. For my part, fuzzy winter photos are just "cute" photos.

I will say again that I don't believe most people can see through t he winter fuzzies, just as most people can't see past the poor condition of a horse--that is why at sales the well groomed ones sell better than the unkempt ones....and I have seen people ignore nice horses that were just down on their luck and looking rough, and then bid a large sum of money to buy a lesser quality horse that is in show condition and turned out nicely. The person that can judge conformation even on a horse that is underweight and/or in scruffy condition can get some real deals, just because so many other people won't look at those horses.

Someone said they're willing to pay more for a foal/horse that is well handled & halter trained. No, not me, that doesn't bother me in the least. If I can get a good deal on a wild, unhandled baby, that's perfectly fine with me. I don't mind taming them down and halter training them myself.

 

[dreaminmini]

Minimor: whoever that is,is very cute! I love moppy fuzzy pics. I bet he is good looking under all that fuzz.

 

[Minimor]

Thank you Kim, I think he's just the cutest little thing in his winter fuzzies. I'm hoping there's something nice under there...seems to be a solid little butt if nothing else

Pretty trot, too--the winter fuzzies can't hide that. can't wait for spring...and not just because I'm anxious to clip out some colts and see if they're what I'm thinking they are... Have I mentioned that I hate winter???

 

[Margaret]

Every summer I try to get pictures of my horses in their shedded condition, or even better freshly shaved, and marked the date it was taken..

This way if I need to offer any of them in the winter, Voila.. I have that same years most current photo.

This has saved me much trouble and aided in the sales of many horses, since the winter can be a good time to sell.

Also a small word about private treaty: It doesent always mean expensive..

Alot of times I'll put private treaty on an ad because I am scrutinizing out certain people that are not willing to go the extra mile to check out my horse.

If some one checks out a private treaty ad of mine, I usually know that they are willing to show some transparency about themselves, and many times end up getting a better deal in the end then if I posted my price.

 

[Riverdance]

Riverdance, trust me I know all about mud, we live at the bottom of a mountain. Any acerage I use must be cleared one tree at a time. I don't think you'll find a woman in a 20 mile radius that can work a chainsaw, drop a tree, or drive a tractor much better than I can. When it rains, we have underground springs that pop up all over, our winters aren't exactly peachy either.I just about fell on my can when I slipped on the ice outside tonight. Its been a whopping average 23 degrees every night for the past week or more.I am not new to big horses or minis, I have had horses all of my life. I do know that if I am going to spend $2000-$3000 on a horse and ask for a shot to make sure that,as I said, it doesn't have any large shaved patches on the neck (indicative of a cath being placed) or to make sure that when I am told its feet are well taken care of, that they are(nothing worse than spending 3 months reshaping a hoof), if that requires bringing a horse in overnight, letting the dirt dry, then brushing it off, so be it, I am not talking about an immaculate horse, just presentable.

We are not poor, but we are not rich, when I spend that kind of money on a horse, it is hard earned money, and if someone wants my money I expect no more of an effort than I would put forward myself. Maybe I hold myself to a high standard and am just dissapointed when others do not do the same.

Keep in mind, when I am looking for a horse, I initially only ask for semi recent photos (wihin approx. 6 months) if I have really narrowed down my search, that is when I ask for a plain Jane recent photo. trust me, each and every one of my horses I currently have with the exception of one, I have gotten/or signed a contract and payed on in the off season. The sellers have supplied me with summer photos and ones that were taken more recent to the sale, didn't change my mind one bit. I have walked away from a sale when a seller has refused to take one current up close shot of each side just to set my mind at ease.

Carolyn,

Don't get me wrong, I do clean up my horses for winter photos, but it is not that easy to do. Especially when the barn is full with show horses and mares and foals.(and you have not seen mud until you live out in the plains (Flat, flat) where there are no trees and no where for the water to run off. So it just sits there and becomes like mud soup)

But, I will stand by my statement, that one can not see conformation in a hairy horse and that is why we in colder climates, make sure we take summer photos. I myself am too honest. When I sell a horse in no way shape or form would I try to sell a horse with a cath shaving down it's throat (without telling the buyer), and I guess because I am so honest, I expect others to be too and would not even think of them trying to sell me a horse that way. Have I gotten shafted, yes, but I will also never buy another horse from them. My philosophy is that you do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I would not be in business selling Minis's too long if I shaftered others. ( case in point: the one farm that really shafted me is now out of business and they were fairly well known. It finially caught up with them) I want repeat business, one can not do that if one cheats a buyer. Not only will they know, they will be sure tell as many people as they can how poorly they were treated at a farm. I am a sales person and an honest one. Thus I have repeat buyers in horses, dogs and Real Estate.

 

[whitney]

Minimor what I see in your picture is a VERY balanced horse front to back. Short back, good hip and if he was setup square a nice slope to the shoulder may even have nice short ears am I wrong?

Private treaty to me means out of my price range, I don't inquire and I don't inquire on no price listed horses either, sounds to me like there not very interested in selling.

And VIDEO's are a SELLERS BEST TOOL! However don't promote your horse as a mover if he/she isn't your wasting the cost of the DVD and postage and your time and mine.

 

[Carolyn R]

Riverdance,That is exactly what I am saying. I can hope others are honest, it doesn't mean they are. I know where I stand with my own integrity and when I give my word, that it means something. I can only hope that others are as morally sound as many of the members on here.

The purchase I have been the happiest with, well here he is below. You can at least tell he is the same horse, not a blob that weighed 300 pounds more,LOL. Best of all, no pictures or words could ever describe his willing personality and effort to please. For all that know Lee and Cathy, I can't say enough good about them, but at the time I did not know them. They went the extra distance to supply me with info and photos I requested, and I did my best to honestly represent myself as a buyer. This boy has been well loved over the years and it shows. Icing on the cake, they didn't tell me he was broke to drive because he hadn't been driven in years. They didn't feel that it was right to advertise him as such. I only found out after he was paid for and I saw a picture on the wall and inquired about it. I gave him a refresher for one season, he is awesome in a cart and harness.

Carolyn

 

[Leeana]

I always have photos available, recent photos too, i almost always have my digital cameria in my coat pocket. If you inquire on a horse and want more recent photos, i garentee you will have new photos within 12-24 hours....photos and videos i always have plenty of.

A hint for sellers posting on the saleboard...i use to make my ads loooong but if you just put in a breif few lines of info that is to the point that will leave questions for the potential buyers to inquire about, just post the important things....not what his/her faverite jolly ball color is and faverit lickit flavor is.

VIDEOS help a ton, even just a short 10 second video. I can see more in that video then a 100 photos. I try to get a video of the horse posed going around the horse, then a trotting video of the horse just standing.

 

[maestoso]

In regards to a post by Riverdance a while back "You can't see through the hair" I tend to disagree with you. While I would never purchase a horse without seeing a clipped photo of it, I CAN at least tell weather the horse is worth my time, no matter how much hair they have. I can see that their legs are straight or not, I can see most of the angles, length of back, hip, etc. The hardest part is trying to find a decent head if there is too much hair. If you can tell what a nice horse is clipped, you should be able to do the same on a hairy horse.

One of the first things I look for in a sales add is professionalism. I look at that even before I look at the picture. I want to see a well written description that makes sense and is easy to follow. If there are a ton of spelling and grammatical errors I move on. To me it shows that you don't really care enough. If you aren't a great writer, have someone else edit it. I also don't want to see bright colors all over the place and silly icons or rainbows flashing across the screen. I don't want to feel like I am buying a horse out of a children's coloring book. If that is what your ad or website looks like, I don't go much farther. Choose easy and generic colors. I don't want to try and read white lettering over a pink background.

Then I look for a picture. Show me a decent, clipped, picture. You can show me the current fuzzy one when I ask for it but don't put it in the ad. I want to see a side-view picture with the horse standing relatively square. Professional photos are nice but not really necessary. All I want is a general idea, because if I like it I am probably going to come see it in person anyway.

In your description I want age, size, color, sex, and registration. Those are basic things that I shouldn't have to ask for in an inquiry, so put them in the ad. It's great that your horse is sweet and lovable and whatever but I want the basics first. If your horse has a national show record I would love to hear about it. But I don't need "Horse did great at the local fair show . . . ." That means nothing to me. Also if it drives, that is nice to know too. Oh and the ad MUST HAVE PRICE. Here is what I hate seeing. "Best Offer on . . . ." "Reasonable offers considered . . . ." "Private Treaty" "Let's talk" blah blah blah. You must have a price in mind and I would like to see it. Even if you give a price and then say negotiable, or show home or gelding discount, etc that is fine but I want a price.

Last but not least, if you have an ad with a picture, Know what your horse is. If you don't know, ask someone who does. If you are describing your horse as beautiful or phenomenal or show quality when I can clearly see from the picture that it is only pet quality, I get the impression that you don't know what your talking about, and I won't bother with your adds or website anymore. Along with that if you DO have an amazing horse, you should price it accordingly. If I see an amazing picture with a great ad and a huge show record and then a price of $600, that is a HUGE red flag and I think that something is wrong, and I probably won't inquire. Great deals are, well, great! But If you undercut yourself too much people will think there's a catch.

As a buyer, I want to do as little extra work as possible, while still getting the info that I need. So the more I get from the ad, the better. There are a lot more horses out there and if I have to work too hard to peel the info and sift through the fluff, I am just going to move on. Chances are, you need to sell your horse more than I need to buy it, so you should be working harder than me, by presenting a great, professional-looking ad that gives me the information I need. And when I do inquire, give me even more info! That's when I want to know that the horse is great with kids or does a cool trick or whatever, If it sounds like you are talking about a horse that you love I will be more interested. If I get a response with only yes or no answers to my question I am going to think you don't care much and I will move on to the next horse.

 

[tinypony]

First of all, the statement made "chances are you need to sell it more than I need to buy it" is SOOOOO very true. Buyers have the upper hand so don't be lazy.

Second, one pet peeve I have is "well the market is bad so why won't you sell your already cheap $750 horse to me for $300?" Well gee, should I just give him away? If you don't like my already cheap price, don't bother me. Discount requests on a $5000 horse aren't so out of the question, but don't be offensive. If I wanted to sell him to you for $300, my ad would say "OBO" or some such thing, but it doesn't so spare me.

As a buyer, I won't waste time with the ads that have no pics, or have simple ads like the one I saw today that said "cute gelding, friendly, email for info and pics". Could you be a little more vague? Why would anyone do this? If you had time to post the ad, you had time to make a better description.

I have also been the victim of buying a horse that was supposedly registered only to find that I had to transfer it twice or more at my own expense. Yes, this was my own fault for not finding out before paying, but if the ad says AMHR registered, shouldn't it imply that the reg. is current? Beware out there, MANY horses aren't current these days and I fell for it TWICE.

Thanks all for the wonderful advice, you are all a welcome support to the horse community.

 

[River Wood]

In regards to a post by Riverdance a while back "You can't see through the hair" I tend to disagree with you. While I would never purchase a horse without seeing a clipped photo of it, I CAN at least tell weather the horse is worth my time, no matter how much hair they have. I can see that their legs are straight or not, I can see most of the angles, length of back, hip, etc. The hardest part is trying to find a decent head if there is too much hair. If you can tell what a nice horse is clipped, you should be able to do the same on a hairy horse.

Not always. I have to disagree with that just a little bit. I'll use my gelding as an example. Can't see much of a nice neck on his hairy photo....

But he certainly has one. (at least I think so)

 

[Katiean]

I NEVER look at a horse that says "PRIVATE TREATY" or horses that don't have a price or pictures. I want to see what I am contacting someone about and my policy is "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." If the pictures show me something that I am slightly interested in, then I might ask for other pictures. I would hope that the seller has pics that are both winter and summer coat if it is in the winter I am looking. Besides, it is kind of nice to see what is out there compaired to my horses. Also, I really hate the pics that is the horse sniffing the camera. Please take the pictures on the horses level and show a side shot. I like to see back length. It is very important to me.

 

[Lisa Strass]

On the flip side, I don't hesitiate to inquire on horses that say Private Treaty. Sometimes, you can get pretty good deals on these horses if the sellers know you're going to promote them.

 

[Royal Crescent]

My 2 cents worth to add to Riverdance's post, whom I agree with.

It would be fine if people really liked the earlier pictures of a horse and just wanted to have reassurance that there is no evidence of a medical problem in a pic. I really doubt though that that is why most people want more pictures. They don't want just a shot or 2. I have been out to Sue's when she is taking the shots and she will spend alot of time taking what the potential buyer has requested, or trying to get a video. She sends the pics, and someone who was "so interested and excited" does not even have the courtesy to respond that they got them, or they want even more pics and then they drag their feet and/or again don't respond either way. :arg! Since there had been nothing medically wrong with the horse, and the buyer loved the initial pics in shorter coats, you can't tell me that they were looking for medical issues. They thought they could see past the woolies, but could not. Moreover, if someone wanted to hide something like a catheter shave, pictures can be altered to hide such areas by unscrupulous sellers.

I don't mean to insult anyone, I just think that more people should use common courtesy.

If you are just "window shopping" don't ask for more pics, or at least not new ones. If you are interested and ask for more pics, have the courtesy to thank the seller for their time and effort and let them know either way what you have decided. If you really are afraid of medical issues and you are really interested, go see the horse if close enough or consider a vet check.

 

[Minimor]

Besides, it is kind of nice to see what is out there compaired to my horses.

and I think that quote is one reason why so many "buyers" ask for a pile of photos and then disappear off the face of the earth. They aren't really looking to buy, they are just looking. And in view of that....I agree with this:

I don't mean to insult anyone, I just think that more people should use common courtesy. If you are just "window shopping" don't ask for more pics, or at least not new ones

 

[Becky]

As a buyer, nothing is worse than a seller that won't respond to email! Especially when their ad says 'email for more information'. Dealing with that right now. I'll lose interest; she could lose a sale. I will call today, but when an ad lists both email address and phone number, the seller should be willing to use either to sell a horse. Could my email be going into a spam folder? Possilbly, but a seller should check that at least once a day.

As a seller, I don't mind taking more pictures for a serious buyer but a buyer should be more than aware that a horse in full winter coat is NOT going to look like it does in summer. Winter coats will make a head look big, a neck look short and a hip look short and/or dropped off. Really distort a good horse!

 

[kaykay]

Second, one pet peeve I have is "well the market is bad so why won't you sell your already cheap $750 horse to me for $300?"

Yeah this one gets me too. But we have perpetuated this ourselves as breeders constantly posting how bad the market is. I do think sometimes we are our own worst enemy. Im not saying we should stick our heads in the sand but on the other hand constantly talking about how bad the market is in turn leads to people expecting rock bottom deals on every horse.

I dont at all trust email and I always call if Im interested in a horse and get no reply from email. Now if I dont get a return phone call I move on.

If Im selling a horse that previously was shown I try to send both a show picture and a pasture picture.

Private treaty can mean so many different things. Sometimes it means "I dont want the whole world to know the price of this horse" or they want a breeding back, or they want co ownership etc. I wouldnt hesitate to email on a private treaty horse.

 

[Annabellarose]

Matt Drown, I agreed with so much of your post!

In regards to a post by Riverdance a while back "You can't see through the hair" I tend to disagree with you.

I disagree also! Maybe it's because I didn't start with Miniature Horses and I had a solid foundation in riding and performance horses, but some of us can and do see through all of that hair. If you can't, you still have a lot to learn if you are interested in furthering your equine education. There are some FANTASTIC reference books on equine conformation! If you are open-minded and willing to learn there are resources available to you, some of them for free; your local library, if they have a good pet/horse section, and the internet, to start. You are welcome to private message me for some excellent equine conformation reference book recommendations!

I want to see a well written description that makes sense and is easy to follow. If there are a ton of spelling and grammatical errors I move on. To me it shows that you don't really care enough.

Me too, me too! I know that we all suffer from "all thumbs" from time to time, but try to get your sales ads right. If nothing else, type them in a word processor that has spell check, and, one better, grammar check. Your ad will look great and you won't give the impression that you can't communicate well.

Oh and the ad MUST HAVE PRICE. Here is what I hate seeing. "Best Offer on . . . ." "Reasonable offers considered . . . ." "Private Treaty" "Let's talk" blah blah blah.

What I hate most is when I e-mail a seller and ask them 11 questions and then they e-mail me back a telephone number and nothing else because they are either too lazy to type out the answers or because they want to try to hook me into talking about horses that I am not interested in or didn't inquire about in the first place! GRRR!!!

As a buyer, I want to do as little extra work as possible, while still getting the info that I need. So the more I get from the ad, the better. There are a lot more horses out there and if I have to work too hard to peel the info and sift through the fluff, I am just going to move on. Chances are, you need to sell your horse more than I need to buy it,

I just couldn't agree with you more. Sellers usually really want or really need to sell. Every potential buyer is valuable to a seller. Buyers do not have to buy. I have been a seller and I have been a buyer and I am usually in a lot bigger hurry to sell than I am to buy. Also, you, as the seller, get the reward, the cash! Buyers part with their cash and a lot is left up in the air. Will this horse be exactly as it was advertised? Will this horse get along with my other horses? Will this horse make the trip safely?

 

[Kitty]

What I hate most is when I e-mail a seller and ask them 11 questions and then they e-mail me back a telephone number and nothing else because they are either too lazy to type out the answers or because they want to try to hook me into talking about horses that I am not interested in or didn't inquire about in the first place! GRRR!

I have to comment here. Once in awhile I will email a person to call me. And it is often because either there are ALOT of questions and it is easier to talk on the phone or I will get the same person emailing over 6 months about different horses and they are emailing several other people also (remember the mini world is very small) and they never buy anything. And they never call. That tells me there are either bored and just emailing to email or who knows what. I am very busy and I appreciate anyone inquiring and I will probably give you way more information then you ever wanted but I never inquire on horses unless I am seriously looking. I just research bloodlines or whatever on my own time.

So to that there are really 2 sides. Yes there are some who are not motivated and some of us that honestly think it will be easier to discuss the 20 questions on the phone and not have carpal tunnel