Buyers advice to a seller

[Annabellarose]

What I hate most is when I e-mail a seller and ask them 11 questions and then they e-mail me back a telephone number and nothing else because they are either too lazy to type out the answers or because they want to try to hook me into talking about horses that I am not interested in or didn't inquire about in the first place! GRRR!

I have to comment here. Once in awhile I will email a person to call me. And it is often because either there are ALOT of questions and it is easier to talk on the phone or I will get the same person emailing over 6 months about different horses and they are emailing several other people also (remember the mini world is very small) and they never buy anything. And they never call. That tells me there are either bored and just emailing to email or who knows what. I am very busy and I appreciate anyone inquiring and I will probably give you way more information then you ever wanted but I never inquire on horses unless I am seriously looking. I just research bloodlines or whatever on my own time.

So to that there are really 2 sides. Yes there are some who are not motivated and some of us that honestly think it will be easier to discuss the 20 questions on the phone and not have carpal tunnel

Do you get a lot of e-mail where people ask you a dozen intelligent and relevant questions that you believe aren't doing some serious horse shopping? I am not talking about tire kickers or children looking at pretty ponies on the internet, I am sure that you can spot them a mile away. From a serious horse buyer that is shy and slow to warm up in person, I really, really love e-mail and I really, really hate talking on the telephone. Please, in the future, think about entertaining e-mail communication. It might just be me! A couple of times I haven't spoken with a seller until I got out of my truck on their property. I found the horse on the internet and asked questions about the horse, made an appointment to see the horse, and gotten directions to the seller's property all via e-mail. I also bought my last dog that way!

 

[Kitty]

Yep lots of great questions

and then more

I have done it myself and been the same as you, went to the place and yep the horse was as I expected and bought it

And sometimes it lead to me not liking the horse or what it produced ect and I will let the person know as they are putting in the time also.

So don't think I don't take any email seriously I do just like I take my horses very seriously (except for the scammers and we know all about them ) as everyone that emails or calls can be a potential buyer

And I will always call the person back on my phone if they like, that is never a problem.

I answer lots of emails all the time and that is GREAT it means I must be doing something right !!!!!! But what I have found is one question leads to another to another so sometimes that 20 minute conversation on the phone may replace those 20 or 30 emails and you as the buyer may also think of questions and have anything answered and say yep that is the horse for me or nope it isn't.

And I don't have prices on everyone- actually only 2 right now. Because maybe the horse has a show record and I have alot into them and based on the person and what they want to do with the horse I would sell them very reasonable or I want to retain breedings, ect all that has influence. Also the foal may have alot of potential and I really would like it shown and based on the contract would adjust the price. So private treaty or email on my website isn't meant to be scary but that I am looking for a certain kind of home- usually show home.

And sometimes I don't know about you but what I write doesn't come out right. So I hope it did here

 

[dgrminis]

I have been reading all the posts and I wanted to add my 2 cents to some of it....

I also hate no prices and no pictures but if the info listed interests me I will e-mail for pictures. I will NEVER contact on privaty treaty... I do not show and I dont want to embarrass my self or offend the seller by inquiring on a horse that is NO WHERE in my price range. No matter how much I like to look at the horses that are out of my range I dont bother to contact the seller unless they are somewhat close to my price. Say I can spend 1200 and they have a 1500 horse but shipping is going to cost me 400 I wont even consider "wasting" their time and getting my hopes up because even if they lowered the horse to 1200 I would still be 400 over my budget (hope that made sense)...

I think that from a buyer perspective it is nice for a seller to respond quickly but that also goes from a seller prospective -- if a seller e-mails you and you arent interested DONT leave them hanging - respond with at least a thank you.

On the telephone comment I am NOT a big phone person - especially if you are out of state. I have a home phone as it is the same service as my DSL but we rarely EVER use it unless I am getting a call from a telemarketer or sending a fax... BUT if someone e-mails me and asks me to call them chances are good I will respond via e-mail. I have access to a computer all day at work whereas I cannot be on the phone for long periods at work so it is much easier for me to send e-mails. It is convient and fast and frankly I am a much better typer than a talker on the phone.

As for people e-mailing on several horses over a period of time - I will admit I have done that because I will look for something that I want to buy and will inquire with several breeders that have horses that qualify for sale - but in the end I may decide I really didnt want any of them to start with because I couldnt find something JUST right for me or whatever reason and then later you may have another horse for sale that I AM interested in...

I am sure I forgot some of what I wanted to say but that was the majority of it

 

[mydaddysjag]

As far as buyers being tire kickers, I know there are a LOT of them out there. I currently have my sweetheart beginner safe barrel horse for sale, and they will ask 10,000 questions then ask me to reduce her price by $800 to $1000 when the ads all clearly say FIRM, and she is priced according to the economy.

On the other note, I am shopping for another mini and I will admit I am looking at horses from more than 1 farm. However, I do always try to let the sellers know that I may take a few days to reply, and I always do let them know if the horse will work for me or not.

One pet peeve of mine is when I inquire about a horse and the seller tells me someone is coming to see it and they will get me the info if it doesn't sell, then the horse is still on their site for months, and they have never replied to me.

 

[Maxi'sMinis]

I recently bought a horse from Triple K, I can't say a negative word about the transaction. Prices were not listed on the web site. But one email and I had a complete price list of all the sale horses. I made an email enquiry to another farm that didn't post the prices and a one liner came back. The price for the horse is 45,000.00. I at least did graciously reply that it was just a bit out of my price range! I do apprieciate prices being listed but if I am seriously interested in the horse I email for info. After some negtiation by email, I have also had some very nice phone conversations. Email is my main communication method.

 

[Riverdance]

I disagree also! Maybe it's because I didn't start with Miniature Horses and I had a solid foundation in riding and performance horses, but some of us can and do see through all of that hair. If you can't, you still have a lot to learn if you are interested in furthering your equine education. There are some FANTASTIC reference books on equine conformation! If you are open-minded and willing to learn there are resources available to you, some of them for free; your local library, if they have a good pet/horse section, and the internet, to start. You are welcome to private message me for some excellent equine conformation reference book recommendations!

I too have been in horses most of my adult life. Before Mini's I raised Morgans and raised them for both performance and halter, before that I was into hunter jumping and had thorobreds. The very first horse I sent to the Morgan Worlds won a Reserve World Championship in his halter class. Plus I have bred some of the top Tibetans in the USA. One needs to see much of the same conformation in them that the Mini's should have. Good angulation , straight legs, straight way of going, long slim neck set on a good angulated shoulder, shorter back, good topline etc. Clipping a coat a certain way can hide a multitued of sins. (as can brushing a long coat the right way or triming the long hair around legs, can make them look straight). Which brings me to another point. If one can see so well under all of the hair. Then why do dog judges put their hands on a dog? BECAUSE THEY CAN NOT SEE THROUGH ALL OF THE HAIR!!

So, since I have been in dogs for over 40 years and Morgan halter horses for 10 years before my Mini's, I can see conformation. One can get a basic idea of the balance and hip of a horse that is very hairy (though with the long hair, the hip can look longer and bigger than it really is), but one can not see the topline, proper tail set, where the neck comes out of the shoulder, how long the neck is , how thin the throat latch is, or what the head looks like. I live in Minnesota and my horses grow coat like you would not believe. Right now if one saw my Reserve National Champion stallion they would think he was a pet with a short thick neck and a big head. Yet, he has the prettiest of heads with a really LONG slim neck and thin throatlatch. (unsweated)

Besides, most people in Mini's can not see the conformation of a horse even in summer coat, let alone a winter coat. Most have never been in horses before, except to perhaps ride one or own a riding horse. Not too many of them were into halter horses before Mini's. It takes a long time to have an eye for what one is looking for. I know several breeders who have been breeding Mini's for years who can not tell a shoulder layback or a good hip to this day. Conformation books can only take one so far, then you have to look at the real thing and ask questions and learn.

What I hate most is when I e-mail a seller and ask them 11 questions and then they e-mail me back a telephone number and nothing else because they are either too lazy to type out the answers or because they want to try to hook me into talking about horses that I am not interested in or didn't inquire about in the first place! GRRR!!!

As for this comment. I am more than happy to respond to an e-mail, even several of them, but at some point in time I would like to talk with the buyer. After selling puppies for over 40 years I have a good feel, when talking with people, who is going to make a good home for my animal, and who is not. They can also get an idea of who I am too.

Also, when talking on the phone many questions can be answered and many asked that may not have even come up in a e-mail conversation.

Then there is the tone of voice. Many times people can missunderstand what one is trying to say in the written word, because there is no tone of voice. I have seen it happen over and over on this very forum. One can take the written word any way the want, be it good or bad. (look at all of the interpretations of the Bible)

 

[Annabellarose]

I am just loving this thread!

I am a buyer, first and foremost. Every once in a great, great while I do sell a horse; I have a horse for sale right now. However, I do far more buying than selling and I always want to keep it that way. I am a terrible salesman anyway! Bleck.

I love the fact that a lot of you said that you do not inquire about a horse when the advertisement says "private treaty". I don't either! All of this makes me want to know if it has or will impact what those of you who sell do in the future concerning slapping "private treaty" on your advertisements? I know that a lot of you won't care, but you might be missing out on sales. I would rather sell a horse to someone that is intelligent and conservative about how much they can spend or are willing to spend on a horse. Sometimes that means they know where they fit in the market and sometimes that means they know how much a horse costs to feed, worm, trim, vet, etc.

 

[Marty]

Here's another slant on this thread:

When I was looking for another stallion I made several inquiries and asked for lots of pictures and information. I was not a tire kicker although it may have seemed that way. I was a serious buyer. This was going to be a huge move on my part and I had to be certain I covered my basis. I was so hoping not to become a pain for anyone.

For all the horses I ended up declining, I was so glad that people didn't get offended that I didn't choose their horse after they went through the trouble of answering my questions and sending additional pictures or a video. You can be sure that I appreciated how nice I was treated and remember exactly who was so good to work with me. Some of you are probably reading this right now. I did so much like the way I was treated and since then I have directed other buyers to them and I will be back in touch with those same people again for future purchases. Kindness goes a long way and I am happy to pay it forward by recommending buyers to you farm.

 

[Annabellarose]

Besides, most people in Mini's can not see the conformation of a horse even in summer coat, let alone a winter coat./

I know several breeders who have been breeding Mini's for years who can not tell a shoulder layback or a good hip to this day.

Well, you and I can definitely agree on this! Woo Lord! Unfortunately, I learned this QUICK. I will see comments about how wonderful a particular horse looks and I will see a horse with two very different front legs and I don't know how it can stand up or I will see a horse that couldn't trot it's way out of a brown paper bag with such a slight hip.

I am switching over to Miniature Horses with a strong background in performance horses and I have only seen less than a handful horses I would actually be willing to spend real money to buy (and most of them are owned by people that, fortunately, know their worth). Most, if not all, of you post here and I am glad to have found good company.

 

[Riverdance]

For all the horses I ended up declining, I was so glad that people didn't get offended that I didn't choose their horse after they went through the trouble of answering my questions and sending additional pictures or a video. You can be sure that I appreciated how nice I was treated and remember exactly who was so good to work with me. Some of you are probably reading this right now. I did so much like the way I was treated and since then I have directed other buyers to them and I will be back in touch with those same people again for future purchases. Kindness goes a long way and I am happy to pay it forward by recommending buyers to you farm.

Marty,

No one should get offended if you did not buy their horse but bought another instead. Everyone has their own taste in what they are looking for.

The only thing a seller would like is for the buyer to at least acknowledge that you got their information and pictures, a thank you, but you purchased elsewhere is also nice. I had one person who we e-mailed back and forth for a while on a filly I had for sale. She decided to purchase elsewhere and let me know. I was very happy that she was thoughtful enough to let me know. I am more apt to respond to any further inquiries she may have favorably. The ones that do not ever get back to me when I have gone to all the trouble of taking more pictures and perhaps videos, I may not be too quick to respond to them again in a timely manner, or go out of my way to take a lot of extra pictures, if they inquire on another horse in the future.

 

[Riverdance]

I will see a horse that couldn't trot it's way out of a brown paper bag with such a slight hip.

Annabellarose,

Finding a good hip on a Mini is hard to do. Even those that are winning today at the World, many do not have much of a hip.

Minis' today for the most part, do not have to be performance horses. Only in the last few years have driving hores become more popular. So one breeds the best they can and try to improve the hips,. That is one of the reasons why I love my palomino Desperado, he has one heck of a hip!!

 

[albahurst]

[SIZE=14pt]"I think that from a buyer perspective it is nice for a seller to respond quickly but that also goes from a seller prospective -- if a seller e-mails you and you arent interested DONT leave them hanging - respond with at least a thank you. "[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]This is absolutely a pet peave of mine. Happened just recently- had a horse I was willing to sell to the person inquiring (at a huge loss to me, BTW), so I priced the horse (as it wasn't on my sales pg) and I never heard back from the person inquiring again. Folks- have some courtesy- let the seller know if you aren't interested! [/SIZE]

And, Riverdance, you can be picking out one of Desperado's foals and hang onto it for me

Love that big hip of his!!!

Peggy

 

[Riverdance]

[SIZE=14pt]"I think that from a buyer perspective it is nice for a seller to respond quickly but that also goes from a seller prospective -- if a seller e-mails you and you arent interested DONT leave them hanging - respond with at least a thank you. "[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]This is absolutely a pet peave of mine. Happened just recently- had a horse I was willing to sell to the person inquiring (at a huge loss to me, BTW), so I priced the horse (as it wasn't on my sales pg) and I never heard back from the person inquiring again. Folks- have some courtesy- let the seller know if you aren't interested! [/SIZE]

And, Riverdance, you can be picking out one of Desperado's foals and hang onto it for me

Love that big hip of his!!!

Peggy

Peggy,

He was bred to 8 mares this year. One of the mares was sold to France and I did not US the others, so I do not know how many foals he has coming in 2009. Some of the mares I bred him to are every other year mares and they had foals this year, so who knows. I think Wind Song is pregnant to him, she is Affairs dam, also Diamond I think is, she is a Windchaser daughter and it will be her first foal. Enchantress is a full sister to an AMHA World Grand Champion Junior Stallion and an AMHA Reserve World Champion Junior Mare that is now owned by Alliance. She was bred to him and I think she is pregnant. She is a buckskin, he is a palomino as is Wind Song a palomino. So maybe some double dilutes coming here. I also bred his 1/2 sister to him, that could be a fantastic foal, she is also a palomino (but not sure if she is pregnant or not yet).

Then I repeated the two breedings of Annie and Billy that I have this year (but do not know if the mares are pregnant) and last is Dandy, who I have for sale in foal to him. She had a beauitul chestnut colt by him that I lost at 3 days old. He was GORGEOUS!! So if she doesn't sell, I do not care.

So, hopefully there will be something available.

 

[Jean_B]

Offer payment plans, even on your cheaper horses.

Sorry but anyone asking for a payment plan on a "cheaper horse" is NOT going to buy a horse from me. If they can't come up with that low amount of money to buy it....they can't afford to care for it. I will GIVE a horse away to a GOOD home before I'll sell it to a bad home. And I've done just that.

 

[kayla221444]

Here's another slant on this thread:
When I was looking for another stallion I made several inquiries and asked for lots of pictures and information. I was not a tire kicker although it may have seemed that way. I was a serious buyer. This was going to be a huge move on my part and I had to be certain I covered my basis. I was so hoping not to become a pain for anyone.

For all the horses I ended up declining, I was so glad that people didn't get offended that I didn't choose their horse after they went through the trouble of answering my questions and sending additional pictures or a video. You can be sure that I appreciated how nice I was treated and remember exactly who was so good to work with me. Some of you are probably reading this right now. I did so much like the way I was treated and since then I have directed other buyers to them and I will be back in touch with those same people again for future purchases. Kindness goes a long way and I am happy to pay it forward by recommending buyers to you farm.

I have also done this, but didn't get good results...and was actually not treated very well with the people I had turned down, since I asked if they would consider an offer on the horse.....and I suppose the thought if I asked if they would consider an offer, that it was a promise...

I personally dont consider someone saying would you consider xxx amount, a promise to purchase a horse

so anyway I am glad you had a good experience from letting the seller know you didn't want there horse after all.

 

[Frankie]

If they can't come up with that low amount of money to buy it....they can't afford to care for it.

Sorry Jean I have to disagree some. There is another side.

I have always kept my "horse money" seperate. I have a son and will not take away from the household fund.

If I have $3000 in my horse fund, and see a horse for $2000, I will still ask for payments. (dollar amounts all examples)Becaues if I do pay the full amount, my horse fund becomes too low and THEN I can not afford to take care of them. If I keep my horse fund where it needs to be for all daily care and some emergencies, I would need to ask for payments. But for me it doesn't me I can not care for them if I get them,,,,,,,,,,,,,it actually means I can.

People do what they need to do, both buyer and seller.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[kayla221444]

If they can't come up with that low amount of money to buy it....they can't afford to care for it.

Sorry Jean I have to disagree some. There is another side.

I have always kept my "horse money" seperate. I have a son and will not take away from the household fund.

If I have $3000 in my horse fund, and see a horse for $2000, I will still ask for payments. (dollar amounts all examples)Becaues if I do pay the full amount, my horse fund becomes too low and THEN I can not afford to take care of them. If I keep my horse fund where it needs to be for all daily care and some emergencies, I would need to ask for payments. But for me it doesn't me I can not care for them if I get them,,,,,,,,,,,,,it actually means I can.

People do what they need to do, both buyer and seller.

Hope that makes sense.

I agree with you on this, and also do the same thing!

 

[Riverdance]

If they can't come up with that low amount of money to buy it....they can't afford to care for it.

Sorry Jean I have to disagree some. There is another side.

I have always kept my "horse money" seperate. I have a son and will not take away from the household fund.

If I have $3000 in my horse fund, and see a horse for $2000, I will still ask for payments. (dollar amounts all examples)Becaues if I do pay the full amount, my horse fund becomes too low and THEN I can not afford to take care of them. If I keep my horse fund where it needs to be for all daily care and some emergencies, I would need to ask for payments. But for me it doesn't me I can not care for them if I get them,,,,,,,,,,,,,it actually means I can.

People do what they need to do, both buyer and seller.

Hope that makes sense.

I agree with this too. I bought most of my horses on payments, even the lower priced horses. I would venture to guess that most people do not have even $1000 just lying around right now. They may, as I do, have a budget for taking care of and showing my horses. This does not mean that I do not have the money to take care of them (I do have 44 horses), but when I see a horse I am interested in, I need to make payments and fit that into my budget. It may be that I am making payments on a horse by payments I am receiving from horses I have sold.. I have never had anyone turn me away for making payments, nor would I turn anyone away as long as they have good refrences. All of my horses that are for sale can be bought on payment plans.

 

[mydaddysjag]

Im another who is all for buying horses on payment.

I have the money to take care of another horse, however It seems that If I use all of my horse money to say, buy another horse and tack/supplies for that horse, another one colics, etc.

I would rather pay payments for a few months and have the reassurance that if there was an emergency that my horse fund wouldn't be drained.

 

[maestoso]

Riverdance, on the flip side, it does not take decades of national championships to know what good conformation is. While I respect longevity and experience, it doesn't necessarily dictate one's knowledge. I know people in their early twenties, and even late teens that I would go to for advice way before others who have been in the business for years and years.

While I agree that a horse can not be picked apart completely with a winter coat, you can still tell something decent from something poor. I have seen plenty of hairy minis and then seen them again clipped, and while there are always some pleasant surprises or minor disappointments I have never been shocked by what I've seen. In other words, I expected something good or something poor, by what I saw in it's fuzzy counterpart.