Breeding Question

[Clarks Ltd Edition]

Hello,

Would you breed a half brother to his half sister?

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[Devon]

No. I wouldnt but Im interested in opinions. I wish it were ok to do that because my friend and I bought 2 show foals from the same sire and god those two matched would make some serious show animal

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[Jill]

If their conformation was compatible w/ no shared flaws -- very possibly yes. I own 2 paternal sisters to one of my stallions and may at some point breed them to him. One of my best mares is the product of two paternal siblings.

 

[disneyhorse]

I have seen inbreeding work and not work. The MOST important thing is to objectively consider the horses' strengths and weaknesses, because although you will lock in the strengths, you will also lock in the weaknesses as you are doubling up on genes.

IF both horses are of impeccable conformation and temperament THEN I would consider it.

Andrea

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

I don't "believe" in incest...

Inbreeding is just linebreeding that failed. Regardless, I don't and won't do it to any animal I own.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I have seen inbreeding work and not work. The MOST important thing is to objectively consider the horses' strengths and weaknesses, because although you will lock in the strengths, you will also lock in the weaknesses as you are doubling up on genes.IF both horses are of impeccable conformation and temperament THEN I would consider it.

Andrea

I totally agree with Andrea. It can go either way, but I have no set rule against it. If I think the two would compliment each other and not emphasize shared faults, I'd do it.

 

[High Meadow Miniatures]

I agree with Andrea

: I would NOT breed a FULL sister to her FULL brother :no: I would consider breeding a half bother to his half sister, IF they had correct conformation, no flaws :bgrin

 

[Erica]

Yes, but I just look at it horse to horse, throwing pedigrees to the wind for the inital observation; would these two animals compliment each other? What one lacks does the other make up for? Half sister to brother, sire to daughter, or no relation to no relation........same thing goes.

That said if the horses compliment each other I'd do it (and have done it) All good results so far and nothing to be ashamed of.

for me Give me something like this anyday, however I get it

 

[Devon]

I had no idea so many people did this Id still be nervous lol.

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[High Meadow Miniatures]

I have never done it before & I am not saying that if someone asked me to, I would! I would consider the conformation of the parents & still, I may not do it or maybe I would :bgrin

 

[EAD Minis]

This is an interesting post. I could see how it could go both ways. Not sure if I myself would do it. Alot of factors to consider.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Nathan/others who say they probably wouldn't:

Help me understand what is the negative? I'm not trying to cause trouble, I really want to learn. My thinking has always been do the horses compliment each other, without regard for the pedigree. So I'm curious to learn why there seems to be such strong feelings against it.

Anxious to read the responses! :lol:

 

[High Meadow Miniatures]

I am eager to learn too!

: Sometimes, Breeding a half sister to a half brother, Can result a foal, Known as a "Dwarf" These foals can have big knees, oversized heads, thick & short necks & lots of other problems, Some die, Some do not. Breeding ANY horse to another, Even if they are not AT ALL realated to eachother, Can result a dwarf

& Sometimes, Breeding half sister to half brother can result in a perfect foal! :bgrin

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

Ok, so would we be ok to cross our appy mare (who is a daughter of Jandts Mini Mist) on our new guy (who's sire is a half brother through Jandts Mini Mist to the mare) if we think they'll make a good match?

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Breeding siblings brings out recessive genes which cause things like HERDA and HYPP. Both siblings might be perfectly normal, but together they can express very serious recessive diseases that you might never have known either carried.

 

[Jill]

Ok, so would we be ok to cross our appy mare (who is a daughter of Jandts Mini Mist) on our new guy (who's sire is a half brother through Jandts Mini Mist to the mare) if we think they'll make a good match?

The way I feel, it is impossible to evaluate the potential of that cross from words. How is their conformation? A lot of people don't want to breed closely related horses. Those who have said they would or would consider it (including myself) have stressed that they'd evaluate the horses for what they are, not who's behind them.

Breeding siblings brings out recessive genes which cause things like HERDA and HYPP. Both siblings might be perfectly normal, but together they can express very serious recessive diseases that you might never have known either carried.

Nathan,

Are either of these disorders found outside of Quarter Horse or part bred QH's? I thought HYPP was exclusive to QH's and that HERDA was or "almost" was limited to horses with that breed in them? But, because I have thought that, I haven't educated myself about it.

There's so much pet quality x pet qualiity breeding minis around. I think the people who do entertain line breedig are actually miles ahead of the masses breeding whatever they've happened to come by.

Thanks,

Jill

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Hi all -- I haven't been here for a while, but still lurk occassionally!

I have bred half-sibling to half-sibling over the years with nice success in the offspring. I will not breed full/full or father/daughter or mother/son. With the half/half, I believe you need to start with an outstanding common relative. And the breeding pair must be very good or better. The half of the half that isn't related brings new genes into the mix.

With very careful selection of the pair (with no known conformational problems or heritable diseases or conditions) you can be successful. The good genes are also doubled. The result can be awesome. Know your horses conformation & family history.

Look at the large farms -- not just miniature farms, but well-known breeding farms for any type of horse. Linebreeding is one of the keystones. Choose an excellent foundation horse. Go from there. We've not had half/half breeding fail, but you need to know what you're doing. Do your homework & research. Look objectively at your stock. Don't just pick a pair & go.

: If you're not confident in what you're doing ............. don't do it. Just putting in my 2 cents.

p.s. There are books and chapters in books on breeding that discuss linebreeding -- they are available & should be used to learn all ya can.

 

[Georgine]

I haven't done inbreeding and comments I have heard are :

"what happens in the wild"

"it can go either way, either the result is very good or very bad"

IMO there can be problems with the result from any breeding pair, but I don't think I would want to "experiment".

If there are good testamonials somewhere regarding this type of thing I would like to hear them.

What would a vet say?

 

[stormy]

Linebreeding is something that requires a lot of research and forethought. You should know parents and grandparents as well as siblings and review any faults they may have as faults will be magnified on such a cross. Also hidden genes like dwarfism, wry mouth, off bites, stifle issues, will be more likely to show up in close crosses. Research is key, works with the Buckeroo line, works with some others as well but I have seen the really bad while working with arabs and do not recommend linebreeding to the inexperianced and really why do it, is there no other good cross out there?

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Yes, happily, have done so and will do so again.

After 40 years (Over 40 years) of dog/cat and horse breeding I think I know enough about researching bloodlines etc, to say this.

If you are happy with the breeding and the animals this is the way that, basically, you create a breed form animals that are just a common height.

In order to become a breed they have to "breed true"

I absolutely challenge you to find me a breed that has been created without line and in breeding.

Can it be over done??

Of course.

Should it be done indiscrimantly- for example if the stallion just happens to be the half brother of the mare and that is the mare and stallion you have so it is convenient??

Absolutely not.

But, genetically, there is no sound reason why this sort of breeding cannot work.

Having said all that I find this to be a particularly weak breeding in horses, and much preferred Sire to Daughter- which I have done routinely now for all of my breeding "life".

No dwarfs.

No cow/sickle/luxating etc

No bad mouths.

In order to get these things you have to be breeding from stock that have them or are descended form stock that have them.

If you are breeding conformationally sound animals in the first place- and obviously you should be, then you should not get problems.

I am talking of conformationally sound animals with conformationally sound predecessors.