Breaking minis at 2 for driving?

[Reble]

I do know you can start bigger horses at 1 year old for driving.

Just wondered what you think of minis being broke to drive at 2.

I emailed a seller about their horses looking for a driving horse for a friend, asked about a more inexpensive horse? Knowing they had a gelding for best offer.

Their reply below: nothing wrong with what they said, but wondered about minis being broke to drive by 2, I would think it is OK, and would it be better than waiting till they are 3 or 4 years old?

YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIND A MINI AT A SMALL HOME HEARD FOR $1000 AND COULD BRING IT HERE FOR TRAINING WHICH WOULD COST $1000 FOR A TWO MONTH PROGRAM. THERE WOULD BE THE RISK THAT THE HORSE WOULD NOT BE AN EASY GOER. WE HAVE FOUND THAT HORSES OVER THREE ARE HARDER TO TRAIN AND LESS LIKELY TO BE EASY TO HANDLE. WE START TRAINING AT TWO WITH HOPES THE MINI WILL BE SHOWABLE AT THREE.

 

[Royal Crescent]

I broke my gelding at the end of the summer as a 2 yo. You can start with the ground work earlier, getting them used to the harness, but pulling the cart with a passenger you should be careful. I have limited experience though as I am just breaking my 2nd one now

Barb

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

I like to start training as a long yearling. Obviously all you can really do is get the ground work out of the way and start ground driving them, I usually wont actually hook them to the cart until they are 2 1/2 yrs old. It does help however to start training earlier at least in my experience and I wish I would have been able to start my horse earlier but he was already two when I got him to my place and being winter I can't even do much ground driving with all of this ice.

 

[disneyhorse]

Just because you CAN does not mean you SHOULD.

I bet you could take a ten year old child and teach them the basics of working at McDonalds. Why not?

I am a strong advocate of NOT starting a horse until VERY LATE in it's two-year-old year at the EARLIEST.

But, humans are greedy and impatient... and the horses don't have a voice against it.

Andrea

 

[Echo Acres]

Most driving horses around here are trained in the late summer/fall/winter of their 2 year old year so they are ready to show in the spring of their 3 year old year. I think it is pretty much the norm. Some have ground work done in the fall/winter of their yearling year and spring as a 2 year old to give them a heads up on training. I don't think that is a bad thing IF they don't over do it.

Look at it this way...it is just like breaking a big horse. Some peole start putting a saddle on and a bridle in their mouth as a late yearling, but don't start to break them until they are 2. Now I know some breeds like Arabs are suppose to wait till they are 3 but that is because of their backs. I have not heard evidence of this in the minis. But it can depend on the horse and how it is growing and maturing. If it is taking some big growing spurts I wouldn't be training them in a cart. I don't see that happening that late with the minis very often.

The registry allows them to show in all performance classes as a 3 year old, obviously they have to be broke before then.

I don't know if I agree with her statement that a 3 year old is harder to break though. I could see a horse that is aged such as 8-10 years of age, but not 3.

 

[Margo_C-T]

I'm 100% with Andrea on this one!

There is both physical AND psychological (mental) immaturity in horses that young. It may vary somewhat from horse to horse, but it will ALWAYS exist in such young stock. It is ONE thing to do good basic handling of varying kinds, as long as it doesn't stress the horse and you keep it moderate--short, calm sessions (young=short attention span)--so that the horse has the chance to become accustomed to the many aspects of the 'big' world it will someday be expected to perform within, but 'real' concentrated training should wait! (and 'big' or not, I would NEVER start 'training' ANY horse as a yearling! Yes, I'm sadly aware that nowadays, this seems to happen, maybe a LOT?? -- but since WHEN does that make it the RIGHT thing to do??)

(I am compelled to add that I would not be sending a horse to ANYONE who purports to train, yet 1)can't spell "herd", AND 2)who offers two months(NOT long enough to consider ANY horse 'trained', again IMO)with the intimation that the horse WILL be 'trained' after that length of 'program'. I won't even mention the named price....not that there aren't GOOD trainers who charge, and get, that and more, nowadays--but this doesn't sound to me as if it is one who should!

Margo

 

[MiLo Minis]

I think it very much depends on the mental and physical maturity of the individual animal. I have had horses that I had no qualms about starting them longlining in harness as long yearlings and getting them in the shafts in the spring of their second year. Minis quite often develop physically faster than a larger horse. I have had others that I waited till they were 5 and were ready to mentally deal with it. The average horse I start as a 2 year old. I wouldn't break a horse to ride as a yearling but that is because we are on top of them upsetting their balance by putting weight on their back. A properly balanced and adjusted cart puts no more than 10 pounds on the horses back and as long as you stick to the flat they aren't feeling the weight of the cart. I also don't see a problem with starting a horse that is more mature. I have started horses driving that were well past 10 years old and they took to it like a duck to water!

 

[Sandee]

About the 2 months training.....you could probably have a "broke" (I prefer trained) driving horse in 2 months IF IT HAS BEEN WORKED WITH (trained) to lead & longe (the basics) and has no personality problems, such as hard to handle or doesn't like people! In other words the 2 months is ok if there some ground work has been done already. If you were to start from scratch, 2 months is not enough time.

For instance my stallion is very "laid back" to the point of being lazy, he would not longe for me even with a whip after him ( I had to literally chase him to get him to move). If the trainer hadn't had to teach him to longe, he could have had him ready to drive in 2 months easily. The way it was at the end of 2 months he was just beginning to develop a headset and still needed lots more miles on him. It made the first few shows that summer rather "exciting" as I never knew if he needed to worked to get his head in place or left alone so he wouldn't sullen up.

 

[choclat dreams]

I think later is better as well, you dont want to cause them any damage physically or mentally. It is well worth the wait!

 

[wildoak]

Key is to know your horse. Milo Minis hit the nail on the head, some are physically and mentally ready for work early on and some are not. Lots of ground work/handling/manners you can teach to a long yearling/2 year old, but I think they need a break in there. If I start one young, they get a break for the winter and then come back to it when they are a little more mature. Horses of all sizes may look mature before their bones & joints are ready for real work, as well as their little brains LOL.

Jan

 

[Katiean]

I saw a stud that the woman broke last year. He is 25" and I thought he was older. When we went to take a lease mare to her we found out he was not yet 3. She drove him last summer. I wouldn't.

 

[Jill]

Most of my driving horses were started, lightly, as 2yo's and have done very well.

 

[Shari]

I would do hand walks and ground work at their speed and taking in account a young mind. But I would never hitch a 2 year old to a cart. The soonest I put any breed of horse too cart is 4 years old. I want to make sure their knees and so on are closed up. Dispite what some think,, you can harm a young horse having them pull a cart too soon,,, same as riding any breed too young.

When in doubt,, get xrays.

 

[JourneysEnd]

Just because you CAN does not mean you SHOULD.

I bet you could take a ten year old child and teach them the basics of working at McDonalds. Why not?

I am a strong advocate of NOT starting a horse until VERY LATE in it's two-year-old year at the EARLIEST.

But, humans are greedy and impatient... and the horses don't have a voice against it.

Andrea

AMEN !

Knees aren't always set by two. Walking Horses are started too early and most of them (show horses) have soundness problems before they're ten. Same with race horses.

What's the hurry ? A horse needs to be physically, mentally, and emotionally ready before you hook the cart to them.

They may be ready to ground drive at two, but hold off on the weight until three.

You've got the rest of their lives to drive them.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Their reply below: nothing wrong with what they said, but wondered about minis being broke to drive by 2, I would think it is OK, and would it be better than waiting till they are 3 or 4 years old?
THERE WOULD BE THE RISK THAT THE HORSE WOULD NOT BE AN EASY GOER. WE HAVE FOUND THAT HORSES OVER THREE ARE HARDER TO TRAIN AND LESS LIKELY TO BE EASY TO HANDLE. WE START TRAINING AT TWO WITH HOPES THE MINI WILL BE SHOWABLE AT THREE.

I have not read the other replies but wanted to respond to the substance of the quote above: What are they smoking?!

"Horses over three are harder to train and less likely to be easy to handle??" What's that supposed to mean, that you can't bully them around as easily or convince them that they're supposed to just take things that an older horse would not allow you to rush them through? Well, that may be true but personally I don't LIKE bullying youngsters.

(And please, I'm not saying that breaking horses to drive at two is bullying. I'm responding to the specific idea that horses over three are harder to train because they won't give in as easily.)

Older horses do just fine in training and in fact often make progress considerably faster as they are physically and mentally mature and can be taken forward as quickly as they understand the concepts. I started Kody at four (when I bought him) and was delighted with his quick progress. With a younger horse even if they get the ideas you have to take things easy so you don't strain their forming joints and overwork them. That's not an issue with an older horse.

It is my opinion, and my opinion only, that it it is better to wait until they're three or four years old. A big horse being trained at one year old is being asked to haul a small percentage of his own weight, like maybe 200-300lbs for a 700-900lb horse. That's not a big deal as long as the horse is mentally ready. But a two year old mini is being asked to haul his own weight or greater right from the start, something you would normally spend a couple of years working a full-sized horse up to and would never ask them to try before full maturity. To me that is the biggest difference and the reason I don't like to start a miniature horse younger than three in the cart. Ground-training, sure. Obstacle work, long-lining, round-penning with the harness, everything but hauling weight, sure. But not more than a gentle introduction to the cart until they're a little older, a little more mature. I'm a fly-weight and use padded working harness so it's not such a big deal, but I hate to see a two year old in fine harness straps and a tight check hauling a large person around a deep arena consistently.

I recognize this is a difference in outlook too (between someone doing long-term training of a carriage driving horse and someone preparing a future breeding animal for a show career) but you did ask for opinions.

Leia

 

[susanne]

I

am in complete agreement with Andrea, Margo, Shari, and everyone who advocate waiting until three years of age before hitching.

Perhaps some horses are physically and mentally ready as a two-year-old, but how many people are truly able to determine this? I would expect that some, like Milo Minis, have the experience to make such an evaluation, but I'd say that for most it would be strictly guesswork.

I have no doubt that those who disagree are following the advice of their trainers or others they respect, but I believe this idea of driving young stock comes largely from the show world, where it is in the economic interest of the owner to get the horse out into the show ring and then retire them for breeding. How many of these horses will even be harnessed once they're out of the show ring? Do the onwers/trainers ever consider (or care) how sound this horse will be at the age of 18-20?

I intend for driving to be an enjoyable lifelong activity for my horse as well as for me. To intentionally risk unsoundness or pain in later life would make driving strictly a selfish activity.

Then there is the notion that any horse can be safely rushed into driving. The highly respected driving trainer with whom Mingus and I worked believes that most minis have huge gaps in their training that set them and their drivers up for future accidents, runaways and other mishaps. Granted, I took a ridiculously loooooooooong time training Mingus, but my high-spirited gelding, who is quite a handful in hand, is a steady, sensible driving horse who takes his job VERY seriously.

I will repeat Andrea's words, which apply to so much in life:

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Define "train"??

Nothing wrong with a bit of ground work and long reining but anything beyond that, no, sorry.

As to an animal being more difficult to train over three, well, basically, not if you are any sort of trainer it won't be!!!

The Kings Troop do not start their horses until they are four years old, and most of them are not even halter trained.

And 16.2hh.

And heavy set and straight off the boat, in a lot of cases, from Ireland!!

So, try explaining to them they are easier to handle at two!!

Sorry but there is a world of difference between bullying and training and an animal is definitely easier to bully before it is three years old.

Training??

No, training works as well at any age.

 

[normajeanbaker]

It all depends on the horse as to when we start them. For the most part, they are hooked in the fall of their 2 year old year. Once snow flies and we cant drive, they are long lined throughout the winter and re-hooked in the spring and hit the show ring as driving horses their 3 year old year. We have done this with just about all our horses. We have 2 right now that were not mentally ready to be driving horses at that age. They are now coming 4 year olds and 1 I hope to hook this summer. The other one I am not sure she'll ever be a driving horse. But, for the majority of our horses, they are hooked in the fall of their 2 year old year. We've had no problems doing this and by hooking them late in the 2 year old year, they are ready to show as driving horses their 3 year old year. We dont drive them for hours at a time and have had no soundness issues come from starting them their 2 year old year. I do think the key is knowing your horse and knowing if they are mentally and physically ready to go as a 2 year old. So far, I've only had 2 that were not ready to hook at the end of their 2 year old year.

Jen

 

[Reble]

You are correct did not notice the heard instead of herd.

Had gone away for the day, and just got back to read some of your interesting opinions.

Not too worry, I think I have found my friend a nice driving horse to be able to show.

He is broke to drive

 

[Boinky]

i've started all of mine as 2 year olds (unless i got them older). Now when I stay "start" they are NOT worked 5-7 days a week. They are probably not even worked more than 2 days a week for maybe a mile on fairly level surfaces with a well balanced cart. I also do not check my horses up unless i'm showing them so they basically are "free". I "start" them in cart just enough for them to get the idea. I don't start any "serious" work until they are 3 and even then I would NOT call what i do serious work compaired to what most trainers do with a horse they have in training. Haven't had any have any problems yet.

I also highly object to not being very trainable after 2. I'm working with several right now that are EIGHT and completely unhandled before. I've found older tends to catch on faster anyhow!

also wanted to add, I've had CHILDREN like 7-8 year olds playing with my cart pulling around adults... they do it for quite a period of time.. I think if a child can pull it around without much strain or adverse affects what little i do with my 2 year olds is unlikely to hurt them. Perhaps i'm wrong.. guess that's just the way I look at it.