Another question about Locking stifle

[Sunshine Acres]

I have a stallion that I bought bought as a proven show horse and proven stallion. About 5 months after I bought him I noticed he was doing what seemed to be locking up in the stiffle. It seemed to pass or so I didn't notice it as much. Recently he has not had any injury and gets turned out to pasture daily and runs his little heart out, well needless to say in the last week he has started locking up, he also seems very sore and can barely walk at times. It also seems to mostly be in one leg and I quiet often see him using that leg to pivot on instead of wanting to take a step off of it. I do have the vet coming out next week to take a look at him. so my question is, Is this heriditary? I have looked on several sights and have not been able to find this answer. I was also planning on selling this boy until I had started to notice that this is really becoming a problem, it was not admitted to me until now by the current owner that the horse has done this before. so as an ethical person, I feel the best thing to do is geld this very expensive stallion that I bought, have his tendon cut to releive the pain and the problem and sell him after his full recovery as a gelding. He had a great show record in halter, jumping and he is also broke to drive. Would make someone a fantastic show gelding. With the tendon being surgically fixed would this be an unrealistic expectation for him to go on and be a show gelding?? any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Marty]

I can only imagine your disappointment and how you are feeling over this.

This is one of the subjects that I've researched to no avail. This is upward fixation of the patella. I have yet to come across any one article that says for 100% positive that this is hereditary, but likely. The thoroughbred magazine "Chronical of the Horse" had much to say about this in their past publications which were the most informative I've found yet. The information is out there, but it's hard to find anyone willing to "commit" and say for sure this will be passed down every time. If it is, it also may not always show up very early on. I am just assuming that any off spring has a 50/50 chance of inheriting it. I've seen it right here in my pasture when I fostered some rescues from Chance's Rescue where both mother and her filly had it, obviously passed on the dam's side.

As in any surgery the success rate for a complete recovery is always impossible to guarantee, but I would just assume that a career in jumping and hard vigorous athletic sports for him would not be in order even if the surgery would be a success. However all is not lost as there is much medication available for horses with this and also other events the horse can still be suited for.

I would suggest that you do a Google search on this subject and read as much as you can before you make any decisions and then speak to your vet, and also get another vet's opinion on the surgery. I send you best wishes and I am very sorry this has happened to you.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Ok well.. I have had a large horse with this issue and a mini as well. Most vets will tell you to geld it isnt worth risking in breeding. Most breedeers will tell youthe same thing. With so many stallions out there why opt to breed one with a stifle issue.

The thing about locking stifles is sometimes they lock and unlock quickly usually getting progressivly worse as time goes on, sometimes there is really no reason why they seem to be worse then others -I think many times a horse does lock and if you arent there at the right moment you wouldnt see it. I have seen how quickly my mini with it locked and unlocked and really it is just a matter of the right time at the right place.

All of that said personally if it were me I would do what you are doing geld , surgery and sell as a gelding.

There is no reason that as a gelding who has the surgery this horse cant go on to do performance and do it well.

Some seem to feel that arthritis is part of having the surgery however most vets I have talked to (and my own large horse has this surgery by Dr Miller of imprinting fame) assured me that in there opinion it is the actual locking and unlocking and for lack of a better term rubbing of bones that arent meant to rub (when it locks) that seem to cause issues later on. All I can say is after having the surgery my big horse went on to be very competitive in west.pleasure, trail, HUS, even some light dressage.

Driving shouldnt be an issue either. I dont know I would jump daily but light jumping well my large horse did it and was sound and fine for years afterward. Again on the advice of the many vets who saw him.

There is also blistering which is injecting I am almost positive it is Iodine into the ligaments - I dont have much experience with that my vet when discussing my mini suggested the surgery instead. I do know of someone who had it done but there horse still locked up.

Good luck in your decision and I applaud you for opting to geld. :aktion033:

Wanted to add that for a young horse.. sometimes lots of trotting to help build up the muscles and such in a straight line can help however since this has been going on from what I am reading for a few months on and off I would guess that wont work in this case

There is lots of info here if you do a search

 

[Sunshine Acres]

Marty,

Thank you for the reply, I have read that the horses need more exercise and that driving is good for them in this situation. This horse gets lots of exercise so I don't think that will help and im glad to hear your opinion on the jumping. Im hoping that someone who has had to deal with this in a show horse can also post if they were able to have success with the surgical options available. Thank you.

 

[Sanny]

If it is only on one side I am not so sure it would be hereditary...more likely from an injury.

We have a 6 yr old gelding with a stifle problem on one side that we know was caused by an injury (we saw it happen and he immediately started hitching an favoring it).

The surgery should be a last resort because he may improve with rest and rehab exercises or with injections. I don't have the details of what exactly was in the injections or exactly where they were injected but can give you that info if you want to ask your vet about it. My vet also explained it very clearly but I can't remember enough info to go indepth with it.

He did take x-rays and evaluate him in the round pen so that he knew exactly what he was dealing with and then he had two sets of injections about a month apart and is doing really well (no sign of a hitch or favoring it or locking up). He is due to go in for a check up soon and then we will know more.

You need to know that if he has the surgery his jumping days are over but he should still be able to drive.

 

[Sunshine Acres]

Sanny,

Thank you for the input. However I don't beleive this is from a recent injury as I have had this horse a year and have seen him doing it on and off and has also now been confirmed that before being sold to me he had also been doing it. He isn't favoring it or hitching up a little, I have sat in my sun room and watched him completely lock, he is able to unlock it himself, and also takes little baby steps with his legs up under him as he seems to know it will lock. I have also never seen him limping and have not ever seen or known him to suffer an injury to the stifle or leg for that matter. Thank you for the input all good things for me to bring up to vet.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

As someone who has a horse with this problem, I'm surprised that he would be worse after a week of running around in his pasture. Kody is far worse after periods of inactivity but if he gets steady exercise for a while he comes around and stops sticking so much. The improvement is temporary unless I really get his muscles built up but it does improve.

If it's any comfort from what my vet says they generally do not suffer pain from this, only discomfort from the inflammation of the abused tissues in the area. A tiny amount of bute (prescribed by my vet in mini portions) on the worst days keeps my fellow quite chipper when he first starts back into heavy work in the spring. As you can tell, my little gelding manages to both jump and drive quite well with the problem- including three day combined driving events! And they do soundness checks at those.

Surgery is generally the last option in most cases. There are too many potential downsides and not enough surety of a cure to be worth it in most cases. First you can try exercise (REAL exercise, like driving and cavaletti work, not just being loose in a pasture), then iodine injections, and only then would I consider surgery. And they are making progress with the surgery as well, making it less invasive and less damaging with better results. The longer you wait, the more advanced the procedures will become.

I really should consider giving my horse the injections at least as his problem can be atrocious in the winter but I'm terrified of ruining his stride and making a useful horse with a problem into a complete invalid. Just too many unknowns for me.

Anyway, in direct answer to your questions: Yes, it (or the conformation that often predisposes a horse to the problem) can be hereditary. Yes, I would geld him. No, I wouldn't have surgery right away. Cutting the tendon will not "relieve his pain," and it may cause other problems. He can be a good show gelding with or without the problem, although of course all involved are happier if the problem is resolved. Be upfront about his condition with buyers as you are planning to and find a family who wants a companion the kids can show and trust. I'm sorry you are facing this situation, you did get ripped off by an unethical seller, but at least the horse can have a happy ending. You're doing the right thing.

Leia

 

[wpsellwood]

Do the surgery, never had any complications on any of the large horses I have done. Tried all the other stuff wasted the money and in the end did the surgery, with no problems. The vet just gives the horse some tranquilizer, then a local at the site, cut the tendon, one stitch. Not a big deal really, and all the locking is gone.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Do the surgery, never had any complications on any of the large horses I have done. Tried all the other stuff wasted the money and in the end did the surgery, with no problems. The vet just gives the horse some tranquilizer, then a local at the site, cut the tendon, one stitch. Not a big deal really, and all the locking is gone.

I am not a vet but that is the experience I had as well. Was simple done at the farm and no more issues. Of course discuss with your vet but I know the iodine shot doesnt always work and one would assume that it has to hurt?

 

[Songcatcher]

I can only speak from my own experience and I am sure that all stifle problems are not alike.

On one of the first mares I bought, when I saw her the first time, she had a bit of a hesitation in the movement of one leg when she walked. I mentioned it to the owner and he said maybe she was bruised or something and he didn't think it was a big deal. I didn't buy her then (didn't have the money at the time) but when I went back to look at her a couple of months later, I saw no sign of it and I bought her. She was bred to a very nice stallion at the time I bought her. When she was nearly due to foal, her leg began locking up. I was not very familiar with the situation and called the vet. He felt it was probably from the foal pressing on a nerve and that she would be all right. She foaled within a few days and I did not notice the problem any more for several months. Since the vet did not think it was much of an issue and since I did not notice any more problem, I rebred her to my stallion. In the Fall, I noticed her again locking up. I went to an auction and saw a half sister (from same stallion) who had the same hesitation in her walk as my mare had when I first looked at her. I decided to sell the mare as I did not want to continue to breed this problem. I fully disclosed the problem to the buyer and sold the mare at a loss. At the time, her first foal (a beautiful filly) had not shown any such problem. However, after selling the mare, the filly (now a yearling) began locking up also. The man I originally bought the mare from offered to buy the filly and I gladly sold her. I do not want to perpetuate that problem.

Like I said to begin with, I sure all cases are not alike, that was just MY experience.

 

[Sunshine Acres]

Thank you to all who have resonded, I know it can be a touchy topic, Soncatcher, I can sympathize with you a 100%. I did breed this stallion to 2 mares and they are expecting any time, I feel terrible that I would have bred this on and that was never my intention. I am trying to chalk this up as a lesson learned. I had bought this horse from a freind as a newbie so to speak(minis), had never had a big horse in my 35 years of horse ownership that has had this problem, so I am completely ignorant when it comes to stifle lock. I had questioned this seller several months back and the issue was denied, now that she has cut me off as a friend, I emailed again since he has really gotten much worse and got a reply that yes this had occured before but felt it was an injury. I would have never bred this horse having known that and after all the responses to the stifle lock, he will be gelded next week. As for conformation, im not exactly sure that would even cause it, this horse has done very well in halter at both the local and national level.

I really do appreciate everyones honesty and openness to offer suggestions or fact of your own circumstance with this issue. I am a lurker and have been for about 2 years, like to read what everyone posts and have learned alot. thank you sincerely to all that have responded.

 

[Songcatcher]

I want to emphasize that I do not blame the person who sold me the mare originally. I do not think he was aware of the extent of the problem, just as I was not aware that it appeared to be passed on to the foal at the time I sold the mare.