AMHA Membership Numbers and my thoughts on the little guy being heard.

[wpsellwood]

Whoohooooo Mistyrose :aktion033:

 

[Littleum]

The reason it seems that AMHA is always in upset mode is because we allow the membership such a large impact.

I couldn't disagree with this statement more.

You do NOT allow the membership a large impact, simply because the primary impact is at the Annual Meeting. The vast majority of members cannot attend this event and have their say. They have to trust in their directors or their "letters being taken into consideration"

It is the MINORITY of members who make the trip to the Annual Meeting and have the MAJORITY impact.

I think a lot of us could sleep easier at night knowing that even if things didn't go their way, that they at least their vote WAS counted. That's frankly all I want!!!

As it is now, there is NO gurantee their voice is heard.

It doesn't help the dialog when people get on and just bash things. If you have a suggestion to fix a problem lets hear it.

My first suggestion would be to revist proxy/mail in voting.

I was told the reason this got tossed is because so many people "changed their mind" upon hearing the presentations at the Annual Meeting. Very understandable. This was also a policy made what... 10 years ago?

I'd like to know why a webcast/streaming audio of the National Meeting would not be possible, enabling people who cannot attend the ability to know EXACTLY what is going on at the meeting, take their own notes and make their own descions based on the information presented.

Additionally, what are the obstacles to building a "live query" type system that would allow remote members to ask questions/engage in discussion as the meeting rules permit?

Has anyone written up a proposal for this? Is it being investigated at all as an option?

 

[bevann]

Whoohooooo Mistyrose :aktion033:

I have been a member of AMHA&AMHR since 1988.I will stay in both.I have seen AMHA go through several executive directors or whatever the title at a great cost to the membership.My reaction when it recently happened again was"Here we go again-when will the board learn?"I have attended several AMHA national meetings&AMHR conventions.At my first AMHA meeting in Las Vegas many years ago I questioned the lack of write in voting.I was told by directors that if anyone really cared they would be at the meeting.The majority of people in attendance were well off financially or self employed so they had the means and the time to attend.Our organizations are supported by the small working person who can't always leave work or afford the cost.This is unfortunate.I also started a Miniature club many years ago that is still putting on shows.We tried AMHA shows in our area.We had an AMHR show 1 day&AMHA show the next day.The AMHA horses averaged 1.4 classes per horse and the AMHR horse averaged 3.2 classes per horse.We had several big trainers for the AMHA show with big fancy very expensive rigs and lots of glitz.They stopped coming when another show the same weekend was put on with 3 judges each of the 2 day show.Our club encourages beginners(many of whom were intimidated by the fancy glitz).Many of these beginners do move on to bigger things and better horses later.We lost money on our AMHA show for 3 years then dropped it&now do a 2 day AMHR show with special classes for Amateurs&even an Amateur Champion of Champions.In our area the mind set is that AMHA is for the trainers and the rich people and that AMHR is the working person's registry.

 

[bevann]

Whoohooooo Mistyrose :aktion033:

I have been a member of AMHA&AMHR since 1988.I will stay in both.I have seen AMHA go through several executive directors or whatever the title at a great cost to the membership.My reaction when it recently happened again was"Here we go again-when will the board learn?"I have attended several AMHA national meetings&AMHR conventions.At my first AMHA meeting in Las Vegas many years ago I questioned the lack of write in voting.I was told by directors that if anyone really cared they would be at the meeting.The majority of people in attendance were well off financially or self employed so they had the means and the time to attend.Our organizations are supported by the small working person who can't always leave work or afford the cost.This is unfortunate.I also started a Miniature club many years ago that is still putting on shows.We tried AMHA shows in our area.We had an AMHR show 1 day&AMHA show the next day.The AMHA horses averaged 1.4 classes per horse and the AMHR horse averaged 3.2 classes per horse.We had several big trainers for the AMHA show with big fancy very expensive rigs and lots of glitz.They stopped coming when another show the same weekend was put on with 3 judges each of the 2 day show.Our club encourages beginners(many of whom were intimidated by the fancy glitz).Many of these beginners do move on to bigger things and better horses later.We lost money on our AMHA show for 3 years then dropped it&now do a 2 day AMHR show with special classes for Amateurs&even an Amateur Champion of

Champions.In our area the mind set is that AMHA is for the trainers and the rich people and that AMHR is the working person's registry.

Great suggestion.LITTLEUM!

 

[Marty]

OK Guys let's not shoot the messenger.

Thanks Ronnie for posting the information.

As a matter of fact I received my membership card today.

I will remain a member because I can't afford not to. Every time I turn around I am having to pay for DNA, a transfer, a registration etc so it's worth it to me to pay a annual membership fee. Don't need the magazine all the time though. Gives me the "I wants" too much. That should be optional.

Merry Christmas Ronnie

Regards,

Marty

 

[Jean_B]

Ronnie could you please tell us why the BOD is SO resistant to the idea of postal voting??

I have been a member (on and off!!) for over 20 years and it was one of the first things I became aware of- I had NO voice, no way I could vote in my own society- WHY???

It has been being asked for all the time I have been involved- sine 1987- WHY has postal voting not been instigated.??

It does, I am afraid, lead me to believe that the Association is afraid of it's members and what they have to say, rather than wanting to hear them.

I haven't read the entire postings, but there IS mail-in voting for BOD members. I just mailed in my ballot for my BOD member a couple weeks ago. Now if you are suggesting they have mail ballots on every single issue that comes up - the entire organization would come to a screeching halt. Heavens! Would you want every citizen to vote on every single rule or law that normally would be decided by Congress? I think NOT.

First and foremost, the VAST majority of members do not want to take the time to become FULLY informed in order to cast a vote that would serve THE ENTIRE ORGANIZATION. That is why it is important to get to know who your BOD representative is, to talk to them about the issues and let your representative know how you feel and WHY. If you don't like how something is going, don't just call them up and complain. Present them with a well thought out and balanced proposal for fixing the problem, one that looks at all the ramifications if such a change was made.

And then it is the BOD member's responsibility to evaluate all of the suggestions, to get all of the information on short term and long term impact of such changes, and make an INFORMED decision.

 

[Buckskin gal]

It doesn't help the dialog when people get on and just bash things. If you have a suggestion to fix a problem lets hear it.

One problem seems to be the cost for a new membership which is $75.00 U.S. I think it should be dropped to the renewal price of $55.00 to get more peole to join. It is really a good deal then because it includes a spouse for that price. A membership with spouse in AMHR costs $60.00. Suggestion...keeping all fees reasonable will draw more people in that aren't rich. User friendly and affordable are two big concerns with many people no matter what the organization. Mary

 

[hhpminis]

I want to draw attention to a huge typo I made in my post on page 2. I wrote it one way and then corrected it but left one word in that really made it sound bad so please...

I do not want to see AMHA fail, I want to see it flourish. So if anybody caught my typo please dont think I want it to fail. I edited it but I am sure some have already read it.

 

[hairicane]

First I would like to say Thank You Ronnie for taking the time and making the effort of getting on here and seeing 1st hand what your membership likes and dislikes about AMHA and how its run. I think its a very wise thing to do as we sure give our opinions right here on Lil Beginnings as u can see.

One of the most important issues is this------------

"You do NOT allow the membership a large impact, simply because the primary impact is at the Annual Meeting. The vast majority of members cannot attend this event and have their say. They have to trust in their directors or their "letters being taken into consideration"

It is the MINORITY of members who make the trip to the Annual Meeting and have the MAJORITY impact.

I think a lot of us could sleep easier at night knowing that even if things didn't go their way, that they at least their vote WAS counted. That's frankly all I want!!!

As it is now, there is NO gurantee their voice is heard. My first suggestion would be to revist proxy/mail in voting.'"

But as it is now if all u do is let the few people with the means to get to the annual meeting vote, well my bet would be we will never all be allowed to vote by mail/internet. After all why would the few want to give up all their power and let everyone have an equal voice?

Another sore spot is the lack of guidance/ control over what has happened to our hard earned money once we have given it to AMHA. Since we were never told the whole story all we can do is guess what happened to all that money that "disappeared" from the coffers to the point of AMHA almost going under. I sure hope that where and when our money is spent is being watched more closely now. Im sure there are a whole lot of us that would just throw in the towel and give up on AMHA if that sort of thing ever happens again.

And speaking of money, yes I feel some of AMHAs fees are too high. And the cost of entering and going to AMHA shows is just crazy. I own almost 100% amha horses but guess where I will be showing in 2007? AMHR shows, they are all I can afford and even that is costly. Obviously I am not the only person that feels that way. The AMHA mini shows held in Florida every november have shrunk in size so much in the last 10 years its pitiful. Im just guessing but I would say that entries are now 1/4 of what they were in 1996/97.

Ok thats my 2 cents worth and of course just my opinion. Thanks for listening!

 

[Buckskin gal]

If we could compare the Registry more to our local government than Congress perhaps some would feel better about the situation. The registries both have people who are wanting more say about what goes on and how their money is spent and that is understandable. We have a chance to vote all the time in our local government when it comes to things such as raising taxes on our homes and our local government hasn't come to a screeching halt...in fact they are learning how to handle money more efficiently because the tax payers do vote. True, not everyone in an organization is going to be well informed to vote but chanes are they just won't, which shouldn't trouble the ones who are informed and do want to vote. I don't like being told that I wouldn't be informed because if I wanted to vote I would be informed. I do understand that we have the right to vote on people who should represent us but there are times when they have a personal agenda and may not be representing the people in the area they are from. Maybe we need to take a look at why the organization would come to a screeching halt if members did vote on the issues. If that were a known fact then maybe others would understand why voting wouldn't be beneficial. Alot of thought needs to go into this before putting it down. And this is not saying I am for or against voting...I want more thought put into it rather than just be told it won't work. JMHO Mary

Ronnie could you please tell us why the BOD is SO resistant to the idea of postal voting??

I have been a member (on and off!!) for over 20 years and it was one of the first things I became aware of- I had NO voice, no way I could vote in my own society- WHY???

It has been being asked for all the time I have been involved- sine 1987- WHY has postal voting not been instigated.??

It does, I am afraid, lead me to believe that the Association is afraid of it's members and what they have to say, rather than wanting to hear them.

I haven't read the entire postings, but there IS mail-in voting for BOD members. I just mailed in my ballot for my BOD member a couple weeks ago. Now if you are suggesting they have mail ballots on every single issue that comes up - the entire organization would come to a screeching halt. Heavens! Would you want every citizen to vote on every single rule or law that normally would be decided by Congress? I think NOT.

First and foremost, the VAST majority of members do not want to take the time to become FULLY informed in order to cast a vote that would serve THE ENTIRE ORGANIZATION. That is why it is important to get to know who your BOD representative is, to talk to them about the issues and let your representative know how you feel and WHY. If you don't like how something is going, don't just call them up and complain. Present them with a well thought out and balanced proposal for fixing the problem, one that looks at all the ramifications if such a change was made.

And then it is the BOD member's responsibility to evaluate all of the suggestions, to get all of the information on short term and long term impact of such changes, and make an INFORMED decision.

 

[sfmini]

Well Said Jean B!! :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

As a member of the computer committee, I plan to bring up the topic of webcasting the general meeting. That said, how about you who are wanting this present me with some possible ways to fund this, what would you be willing to pay for this if anything?

Please do not forget, the AMHA only puts on 4 horse shows per year, the remainder are independently put on by clubs and individuals, they are the ones setting the fees, talk to them! AMHA is looking at ways to reduce costs for the 4 shows we do put on. Looking at trophy and ribbon costs, possibly eliminating either the top ten plaque or the ribbons, facility costs, etc.

The membership committe has proposed eliminating the initiation fee and that is being looked into.

When you do have an opinion on an issue, do you contact your director? I have to say that I hear from very, very few people on issues.

Folks, I am one of the little guys, not wealthy, I work a full time job and am always strapped for cash. I have an equal vote at these meetings, and I also think you would be very suprised to see just how few of the 'big guns' really attend these meetings. I would say the majority of the attendees are just plain, every day folks like me. The 'big guns' don't get involved in the politics much, it is those of us who passionately love and enjoy our little horses that rule the majority at the convention.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Please do not forget, the AMHA only puts on 4 horse shows per year, the remainder are independently put on by clubs and individuals, they are the ones setting the fees, talk to them! AMHA is looking at ways to reduce costs for the 4 shows we do put on. Looking at trophy and ribbon costs, possibly eliminating either the top ten plaque or the ribbons, facility costs, etc.

.

I am curious since you bought this up about shows ... I have heard and i am just asking as I have NO IDEA if it is true or not..

that the Supreme horse at every National show in addition to ribbons, trophies and such also gets a LARGE cash pay out in the thousands and in many of the other classes the champions also get decent sums of cash as awards? along with the ribbons and trophies , jackets and other awards

I mean even if this is sponsered why not use the sponser money for ribbons and trophies for all classes and then save the money for something else

Again I am not sure about the cash thing but I have heard it is a pretty LARGE sum of money especially for supreme I am not talking hundreds here. But this is just what I have heard which is why I am asking if it is true.

 

[sfmini]

That is true that the World Supreme gets a good sum of money, 100% from sponsors who are specifically sponsoring that class. There is also gelding incentive money that comes from fund raisers and sponsors, and there will be new awards coming sponsored by Platform feeds where in addition to the Honor Roll which is a national program, there will be Honor Roll awards by regions as well, again 100% sponsor funded. The Jackets that the World Champions win are funded by sponsorships. I agree that we need more of this, and are working towards it.

That sponsorship money is specifically targeted for those programs by the sponsors and cannot be used anywhere else.

There is also sponsor money from folks sponsoring specific classes, and by paying to have a farm banner made and hung in the arena.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Thanks for answering I do understand it is from sponsers and that is wonderful to have them help out for these shows however if one were to look at lowering costs of shows for the majority as you said above.. then perhaps discussing with the sponsers instead of a 10,000.00 pay out -which is the amount I have been told by some trainers/exhibitors - for the supreme or the $5000.00 for the grands (which again I am not sure of as I have obviously never won but have been told by many who have shown in AMHA for years so perhaps I am wrong on the numbers)

But it would seem to me as generous as those sponsers are I am sure they would understand the need for more people to attend the shows and find it affordable therefore more people seeing the advertising and marketing that is being done by said sponsers and perhaps they would be more then ok with really allocating the money differently so that AMHA could make these 4 shows you talk about a bit more affordable for the average person.

Without the avg person feeling they can afford to show well frankly you kinda down the road lose out on a large portion of the market of these big farm's show horses. They can only sell to themselves for so long at the prices they want to get for there quality show horses if they are the only ones being able to show. again JMO

 

[Littleum]

Well Said Jean B!! :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

As a member of the computer committee, I plan to bring up the topic of webcasting the general meeting. That said, how about you who are wanting this present me with some possible ways to fund this, what would you be willing to pay for this if anything?

As for funding, why not divert the funds flagged in the World Show budget for the 10 day webcast to the Annual Meeting? Of course that's just my feelings on "what's more important" And I also know how hard it is to move items from one budget to another...

I think the KEY thing to bear in mind (bringing it back to the original post) is that AMHA's membership has remained essentially the same for 7 years

One of 2 things are happening with AMHA's membership:

1) AMHA is bleeding members as quickly as they can replace them.

2) AMHA's membership is basically the same people, every year, and is not attracting any meaningful amount of new members.

So AMHA is either producing a disproportionate rate of dissatisfied customers and needs to urgently examine WHY people are leaving and take meaningful steps to resolve the core problem(s). Or AMHA's marketing initiatives to attract new members are a complete and utter failure, and should be reexamined immediately so more money and public image isn't burned.

AMHA needs to have a long, hard talk with itself about WHY it's membership has stagnated for 7 years, look at the data, determine where the problem is and fix it Because there is a problem, at least from where I'm sitting.

And I'm not all about sitting here and griping- I will be happy to donate my time if AMHA decided to launch some kind of project to examine these issues.

 

[disneyhorse]

I was an AMHA member for one year (either 2004 or 2005 I think) after being an AMHR member since about 1999. I had bought my first AMHA registered horse.

Well... it wasn't very "beginner friendly" it seemed to be mostly big-name farm/trainer/advertisers and less "little guy"... and while it came off as very "professional" compared to AMHR it thus seemed more intimidating. Everything was more expensive... the membership dues, fees on work orders... and I looked into showing but the show fees were more. AMHA was just plain more WORK and MONEY so I quit after one year's membership. I have thus only ever owned one AMHA registered horse, and then sold it.

AMHR has been cheaper and easier (for me, the little guy)... local shows are cheaper, you don't have to qualify to go to have fun at Nationals, and it's more low-key. I guess I am not into investing huge sums of money for my habit... although I am willing to give lots of money to the Registry to show and attend Nationals each year! SPEND lots of money, yes, but INVEST lots of money, no! I'm not AGAINST the AMHA by ANY means... I just think those are some of the reasons I chose AMHR over AMHA since I can't do both.

Andrea

 

[Davie]

Ronnie

First question, in the membership count how many of those are lifetime members who are no longer in miniatures or are deceased. When the lifetime membership was posted in the magazine last year there were several names listed that I know personally who are no longer among the living, have been suspended/banned, etc. If that list was purged and made current I bet you would see a great reduction in the actual membership.

I have not shown at a "A" show in the last 3-4 years for a number of reasons, some of which I'll list here.

1. Entry fees continue to rise at the Regional (National) and World shows

2. Low local show attendance, where you can't get points

3. National costs are extreme for a small owner compared to the "R" costs

Here is a very good example of National show costs "A" vs "R"

Stall fees A-$90.00, R-$50.00 (same number of days)

RV slots A- $30.00/day (last time I was there, R-$23 day (current rate as of 06) with lots better facility

National Class Costs "A" vs "R"

Youth - $25.00 vs $15.00

Amateur - $25.00 vs $25.00

Open - $60.00 vs $35.00

Futurity - $40.00 vs $10 for weanling/yearling $20.00 for 2 yr

Stakes - $0.00 vs $50.00

I will continue to keep my "A" membership only for the reason of the reduced costs to do paperwork.

AMHA has several issued that need to be addressed before I will go back to active participation

1. Clean up the measurement issues

2. Better management of funds to keep costs down

3. Mail in Balloting on major issues & for those who can't attend the annual meeting

4. A Board of Directors that can work together for the common good of the organization--not special interest.

 

[SweetOpal]

(10,000.00 pay out -which is the amount I have been told by some trainers/exhibitors - for the supreme or the $5000.00 for the grands (which again I am not sure of as I have obviously never won but have been told by many who have shown in AMHA for years so perhaps I am wrong on the numbers) quote from Ruffntuff)

WOW!!! I was pretty darn happy with a TITLE and an embroidered sheet. I mean really that is cool to win such a huge purse, but seems odd for a registry that is supposably in financial debt. Just my opinion.

Davie, I beleive there are stall that cost in the upwards of $200+ a peice as well.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

It is insulting, to say the least, to suggest that members would not be "informed" enough to vote.

It smacks of "would not vote the way WE want them to" to me.

Remember we live3 in a society that once seriously suggested that women did not have the brainpower to warrant a vote.

That some people be automatically excluded from certain jobs because of the skin colour, and now we are told we are not "informed enough to make a decision??

RUBBISH!!

The membership REQUIRES postal votes- it has been requiring at long as I have been aware of the AMHA- which is since 1985- so WHY has it not been done??

The Association is owned by it's members, it should meet the majority requirements.

Unfortunately we are in a catch 22 situation- we want postal votes but cannot get to the meetings to demand this and cannot do it any other way as there is no postal vote!!

This is a ludicrous way to run a 21st Century Horse society!!

 

[sfmini]

AMHA is not in debt, as a matter of fact we are debt free.

That said, money is tight and much work needs to be done on the budget as it is at break even right now, and needs to have some squeaking room in it.

That money did not come from AMHA, it was donated by sponsors.

There are super expensive stalls, rented by the big farms, but that is only one building, and the remaining stalls are nowhere near that price. I am not sure, but I don't think those other stalls were $90, I think they were less this past year as we reduced the stall fees for 2006.

Had to go back and re-read my post Jane, nowhere did I say that you have to attend a meeting to get things changed. All you have to do is find out the obstacles to mail in vote and address them. You don't have to set foot in this country to do that, an email or phone call will do. If rule changes are needed, you as a member are absolutely allowed to propose such changes and never attend the meetings. It would behoove you to contact the appropriate committee chair so they are aware of your proposal and the reasoning behind it, and if possible to be available by phone during that committee meeting if there are questions. What people don't understand is that proposals come in that are not clear, and the person submitting those changes are not available to ask questions and we are not allowed to make up our own interpretations and change the proposal without the consent of the individual submitting.

You can also contact anybody on the BOD as well to discuss what you have in mind. Again, none of this requires anyone to attend the meeting.

THIS IS A MEMBER OWNED ORGANIZATION AND AS SUCH, IT IS THE MEMBERS WHO MAKE AND CHANGE THE RULES.