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Charley

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I am a concerned member of AMHA. I have been following the post on this voting proposal. I find the bickering to be so annoying that it is hard to sort out what everyone is saying. So I took your words and tried to put them together where we could possible come together and do something constructive.

Here are your posts thrown together.

For those who would like to vote on important AMHA matters, here is a proposal to send to your directors and anyone else who might help with this effort.

Proposal

Article VI, Section 4 Voting (A)(A) Regular Members

All Regular Members who have attained the age of nineteen (19) years as of thirty (30) days preceding such meeting and who have been Regular Members for at least six (6) months are entitled to vote on any matter before the Annual Meeting or special meeting. ADD THIS SENTENCE (Voting will be allowed by those members present at the Annual Meeting and those Regular Members that choose to vote by mail ballot and/or via an online internet vote). Whenever in these bylaws the term member or members shall be used unless otherwise specified. It shall mean a member(s) in good standing having the right to vote.

Note: Just for clarification, no other amendment needs to be made for Lifetime Members.

Lifetime members are included in this section; see Article IV, Section B, which states, "For the purposes of these bylaws the term "Lifetime Members" shall be deemed to include "Regular members" except where otherwise specified."

The way to explain to the members that the Board has the power given to them in two Articles of the Bylaws to MAKE this amendment to be voted on at the 2009 Annual Meeting.

One of the bylaws that gives the Board this power is:

Article V, Section 3 Powers of the Board, which states, "The Board of Directors shall have the power and authority to MAKE, amend, repeal and enforce such rules and regulations, not contrary to law, the Articles of Incorporation or these Bylaws, as they may deem expedient and necessary concerning the conduct, management and activities of the Association, etc?

Concern:

Section 3, Powers of the Board of Directors (A) Enumeration

The Board of Directors shall have the power and authority to make, amend, repeal, and enforce such rules and regulations, not contrary to law, the Articles of Incorporation or these Bylaws, as they may deem expedient and necessary concerning the conduct, management and activities of the Association, including but not limited to the setting and collection of dues and fees, (excepting registration fees) regulations regarding stud book, registration, the expenditures of money, the auditing of books and records, the awarding of championships, the conducting of shows, contests, exhibitions, sales, social functions and other details relating to the general purposes of the Association. All of the foregoing are subject to revision or amendment by the members at any regular or special meeting of the members provided that written notice of any intention to revise or amend said rule(s) has been published in the Miniature Horse World or official correspondence at least sixty (60) days in advance of that meeting. (Amended 6-7-03, effective 01-04) ](end quote)

It is my understanding that the above quoted rule is the one that allows the Board of Directors to set fees, and make decisions for the Association, etc. It is not a rule that is used by the Directors to make By-Law changes.[/color]

The other Bylaw that gives them the power is Article VI, Section 4 (E)

Special Measures that states in part. "Proposals to amend a Bylaw, amend the Articles of Incorporation, or dissolve the Corporation may be proposed at the Annual Meeting and voted upon at the next Annual Meeting. Proposals to amend a Bylaw, amend the Articles of Incorporation, or dissolve the corporation may be made by a petition signed by at least five (5) percent of the voting members as of the April 1st preceding the meeting, OR BY A MAJORITY OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS",

The Board has the power to make an amendment to allow members to vote without having to attend an annual meeting. We the membership have the right to insist that the Board make this amendment in order for the 11,900 members of the 12,000 member AMHA says we have to have a voice in how our Association is operated and how our money is spent. Remember that less than l00 members including 23 directors made decisions for all of us at the 2008 Annual Meeting.

Concern:

But, right after that, (I colored the words that are significant) you wrote, “The Board has the power to make an amendment to allow members to vote without having to attend an annual meeting. We the membership have the right to insist that the Board make this amendment in order for the 11,900 members of the 12,000 member AMHA says we have to have a voice in how our Association is operated and how our money is spent. Remember that less than l00 members including 23 directors made decisions for all of us at the 2008 Annual Meeting.

If you are an AMHA member and want the Board to make this amendment to vote by mail and/or online, copy the proposed amendment to Article VI, Section 4, (A), above and send it to all your directors. Ask for a reply that your correspondence was received by your director.” (end quote)

I am not sure if you are aware that your words are misleading. Even though the Article you quoted referred to PROPOSED amendments, your words imply that the Board of Directors has the power to MAKE an amendment to the By-Laws that is binding. That is not so. The Board of Directors merely has the same right as the Membership to PROPOSE an amendment.

A proposal from the Board, like a proposal from a petition of 5% of Members that comes after the Annual meeting, must still be voted on at the next Membership Meeting to be approved (providing the proposed amendment is published in time to meet the ‘notice’ requirements). The Board does NOT have the ability to change a rule or regulation, article of incorporation, or a By-Law, all by themselves. In AMHA it must be done with approval of the membership, (unlike in AMHR whose Board can change By-Laws without membership approval.)

And, as a final word on your initial post on this thread. The wording you proposed would definitely need to be tweaked. In the way it is written, members could vote more than once. All members would be allowed to vote by mail AND on-line (two votes), and then if they go to the Annual Meeting, they can vote again (three votes).

You might consider something along the lines of, “All members will receive one vote per issue presented. Votes may be cast in person, by mail-in ballot, or via the Internet. If a member wishes to vote via mail, they must inform the Association of their preference by mail at least 60 days before the date that mail-in voting closes. This notification will be accompanied by a self-addressed, postage-paid envelope with the required fee.” (The amount of the fee is something that can be voted on by the Board, per the Section 3, Powers of the Board that is quoted above.)

The ‘logistics’ of voting by mail or Internet would have to be worked out, but I am not sure exactly who would do that, when it would need to be done, or if that would have to be put into a rule or regulation. It might mean a new Committee would need to be formed to work out the details.

If you are an AMHA member and want the Board to make this amendment to vote by mail and/or online, copy the proposed amendment to Article VI, Section 4, (A), above and send it to all your directors. Ask for a reply that your director received your correspondence.

Objections/Obstacles

You need to address all of the objections to allowing remote voting with solutions or those attending the meeting will shoot it down. Don't forget, you are trying to get a change voted on and passed by those folks who DO attend the meetings. As I have said in many, many other postings on this subject, those of you who want this changed have to find out what the obstacles are and provide possible solutions. Those who attend the meetings just don't have a vested interest in seeing a change like this passed.

I am not sure where the perception of the AMHA BOD or Executive Committee not wanting the members to vote either by ballot or Internet came from. There is not one Board member who doesn’t value the interests of the membership. At least from what I have seen, their decisions have been geared towards the best interest for the majority of the membership. I am only commenting on what I have seen while serving on the BOD.

The AMHA EC, BOD and Office make no effort to hide anything from the membership. Remember, the BOD is strictly a volunteer basis. We have no direct personal gain to be made by the decisions we make. We merely try to sort through all of the options and make decisions based upon what we see.

I personally think it is a good idea for membership to vote via ballot or Internet. But planning is crucial for this to be successful. Timing of the ballots, accuracy of the ballots and cost effectiveness are 3 major things to consider. Much work needs to go into the plan to make this successful.

Objections/Obstacles

Differing opinions of the interest of those attending the meeting:

1. Those attending should have interest in seeing this passed. All members deserve a vote and a say in what goes on. General membership money is funding most of the programs including shows put on by the AMHA. We have already seen in a previous poll that many in the general membership want this right. The AMHA is our club as well as that of the few that can get to these meetings.

2. Those who attend the meetings just don't have a vested interest in seeing a change like this passed.

3. The directors are supposed to be representing their area not just the few members that show up at the meeting. If they cannot do this, it is about time the membership started looking for directors who will represent the entire membership.

4. The ones that can AFFORD to go to these meetings want to CONTROL AMHA. I don't think they really care about the little guy's or the people that can't go for other reasons.

5. MANY AMHA members that cannot make it to the meetings or are afraid or intimidated to speak out or post their feelings on a public forum.

6. You are probably right that the very small group of members that make it a priority to attend the annual meeting are not going to be the ones taking MORE time out of their lives to address this issue. If they don't take time to address this issue they may find in a very short time that a large number of people that support AMHA and have no say in the associations decisions without attending an annual meeting, and paying a fee to vote, will decide being a member has little advantage. If so, the number in members will continue to decline along with the number of horses registered. When we consider that registrations for 2007 are down about $100,000 from 2006 we should all get very concerned and work for changes that will bring member back to register their horses.

7. Imagine AMHA as a role-playing game. There is the high school politics we all know from our past. But there are also factions, agendas, and a political hierarchy at play. Some of these people have multiple lives and many powers. Yes, the people who attend have no interest in allowing the "other" members an absentee vote. So the question is how with all of the agendas, and posturing for control do we enact a change (remember even though our rule book and bylaws say the members decide, 30 plus years of evolvement have made that a moot point)? Jodi is right and so are the other contributors to this forum that try to convince you to go to the meeting. Priorities, bah! You either have to convince the people attending to change their mind (highly unlikely) or you have to over power them.

8. THEY ARE UNIFIED. Until all the rest of us can set our agendas aside and begin to practice bipartisanship we are just the middle class funding their ability to control. They are also deeply rooted and have control over all of the aspects of how our association runs (to the point of complete dominance). Standing up and going to the meetings is the only way to keep our association from snuffing itself out. We do not advertise or market as a whole to any outside interests (in fact the powers that be say that advertising is not profitable) our marketing budget is forced to show a profit (yes they give marketing money but with the stipulation that they sell calendars and the like in order to deposit an amount greater than their budget in order to get funds the following year). We split classes. This sells a few more horses but it does not bring in new members and in effect it lowers our profitability at the AMHA run shows (less numbers in a class but twice the awards). Look at our numbers, I did, the good old days are just that. Halter entries in 2006 were down 16 percent over a five year period, Performance was up the same amount, in fact our insane way of judging a shows success, "by numbers of horses attending" instead of numbers of class entries shows how they are trying to convince us that all is well. I bet the whole thing flops on it's back in cardiac arrest this year...........I've been to 8 shows and each succeeding show has been poorer in attendance than the last. You have to wonder how spun the figures have been and whether the new Executive committee members will get hung out to dry................All of this rant is try to make you concerned people understand that NOW is the time to quit complaining and make a commitment. Maybe you could come to the upcoming June meeting? I bet it would be worth the expense and effort.

9. And, as for the brave, YES, it is NOTHING SHORT of the BRAVE who GO OVER THERE and FIGHT OUR BATTLES FOR THE REST OF US. This is what I'm under the impression is "supposed" to be what our Directors are in place for. However, they seem to be among the "Unified" front of the Board, from what I'm reading here anyways. And the MAJORITY of the membership/citizenship is NOT being heard. Plain and simple. Well, I'm sure they are being heard, just IGNORED rather. And, if our Directors in place are not fighting our battles for us, then it's time we send in a "Military", I guess.

If all you would rally and unify together.

10. If we have approximately 100 members going to the meeting out of 12,000.... doesn’t that tell us something is wrong and needs to be changed?

Getting members to realize the significance of attending this meeting in June:

The other part is, once you have the right proposal to take to the membership to vote, there had better be enough of you there to get it passed, there has to be enough votes for it. It’s the final vote that will make or break it. So if most of you that signed petitions, came up with solutions, go vote to change it.

Annual Meeting Expense YTD = $42,762.00 Let's just do the math: 100 members at a total expense of $42,762.00 cost = $4,276.20 per member attending.

Comments on the costs for the annual meeting:

Those expenses are for rental of meeting rooms for the committees, general membership meeting, board meetings, and BOD and staff expenses since some of the office staff attend the meetings. Remote voting won't lessen those expenses. At the June meeting, since it is local to the office, the office staff can commute from home and save us some money. We would be able to save even more money if we could meet in the AMHA office, but there isn't enough room for the committee meetings.

Find out true number of members over the age of 19 who would be eligible to vote:

AMHA has 12,000 members

I hear "trumped up" figures (that I was told included family members, ie. youth) of around 10,000. But if I remember right someone in the office told me approx. 6000 actual members.

Costs of Internet/Mail voting and how to offset it:

1. The figures show the cost of the last June meeting was huge for the few that attended, so mail or Internet voting would be much cheaper and take the interests of the majority of AMHA members into account.

2. The cost of conducting the annual meeting can be drastically reduced and save the Association quite an expense. The year-end audit for the year 2007 reports that the fee for the 2007 Annual Meeting was ($41,239), forty one thousand, two hundred and thirty nine dollars. This amount of money covers the expense of roughly only a few over one hundred members including directors that attend the Annual Meeting and make the decisions for all the membership.

3. The fee for voting by mail ballot shall not exceed $10 per voting member. To start voting my mail, only proposed amendments by mail ballot will be implemented. As computer software becomes available, AMHA will include Internet voting along with mail ballots to those members without Internet access, that request to vote by mail.

4. The fee of $10 per voting member will be eliminated when for those members who choose to vote by Internet ballot, when computer software is available. This fee of $10 per mail ballot is necessary to help cover cost of voting tabulation, postage and printing. This fee is still less expensive for members, as currently each voting member has to pay $25 to attend the Annual Meeting in person and vote. The fee is $100 per member to attend the meeting and vote if the member does not make their reservations at least (7) days in advance of the meeting.

5. Rationale: AMHA is constantly looking for ways to increase membership. The opportunity to provide the members a chance to take part in the decisions of the association with voting by mail ballot or internet ballot, will encourage the increase in membership, and will halt the steady loss of members and the decline in horse registrations that AMHA is now facing. The entire membership will have a chance to become active in the operations of their Association.

6. Keep it simple, we print off a ballot from the Internet and we mail it in with our envelope and our stamp. No cost except a web page/document. The word 'ballot' goes on the back of the envelope and your member number, and then AMHA receives it and checks that number to the membership list. Once verified that it is vote from a member in good standing, then when it is time, ballots can be opened and submitted.

To remove obstacles on Internet voting:

1. AMHA has been insuring each vote is legitimate for years, when they have mailed out ballots to members to vote on directors for each region. Voting by mail ballot would be handled the exact same way. Nothing new for the office staff to do.

2. Post all proposed amendments to bylaws, rules and regulations and show rules in their FINAL FORM as they are to be voted on at the annual meeting, in the Miniature Horse World and or official correspondence by November 15, of each year.

3. Mail same proposed amendments to every member with ballots for voting by USPS mail by December 1, of each year. This date will satisfy the requirement of 60 day notice before the annual meeting of all proposed amendments, as per our bylaws.

4. Return ballots to accounting firm and handle voting procedure exactly as the handling of voting for directors. Members will submit a fee with ballot to accounting firm. This fee should help offset any great expense to AMHA for mail ballots and tabulation of votes.

5. Accounting firm will submit the result of the votes on the amendments as passed or failed to the AMHA President no later than l0 days prior to the annual meeting. The results of the tabulation of votes will NOT be opened until the Annual Meeting is in progress. The President will read the results of the voting tabulations, after the votes of the members present and voting at the meeting have been counted for each amendment. The amendment will then be recorded as passed or failed.

6. Accounting firm and AMHA office will keep results of votes on file for one year and will supply written report to any member who shall request the report.

A forum to discuss pros & cons of each rule change:

AMHA could provide a forum for discussion. In fact, for those of us that watched the annual meeting on the Internet, there was little or no discussion of the pros and cons on each rule change.

What about a forum with specific times set for specific topic discussions, as if actual meetings themselves, and then the results of those infused with the National Board meetings, providing a much broader perspective overall. Those able to attend the "forum meetings" will definitely provide that much broader scale of perspective over many topics, and can then be voiced at the national level, so long as board members, or at the very least, our Directors, will strive to meet us half way and attend "OFFICIAL online forum meetings".
 

sfmini

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A rebuttal:

The cost of a mail vote will be at least 3 to 4 times more $$ than a directors election. The directors are elected for 3 year terms, and the regional votes are spread out over those 3 years which eliminates the possibility of a 100% turnover which could really mess with any continuity. I imagine the cost would actually be much greater since I hear the response to the vote for the BOD is very low.

The annual meeting would still cost as much, we would still need the meeting rooms, airfare and expenses of staff.

One area I forsee being cut sadly will be the webcast due to the lack of participation. I will have a hard time selling them on it again with the low numbers of viewers last year.

I can only speak for myself, but there have been times when I have voted contrary to my own personal preferences as that is what the people I represent would have wanted.

I do have to say, I do this all in pretty much a vaccum because I am never contacted by members in my region expressing their opinions. I try to talk to the few members from my region who attend the meetings to get their opinions before a vote, but that isn't a good representation of the region.

FYI, the rule changes to be worked on at the June meeting are now posted on the AMHA website.
 

McBunz

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I just received my AMHA update via e-mail... The links do not work but that is another thing...My point is the AMHA has the e-mail addresses of its members that asked to receive this. They also have

the mailing addresses of members to send MHW. So is wouldn't be to far fetched to ask directors to

keep in touch with members in their area. If need be members could send their e-mail address to their

director so he or she could keep us in the loop and we could share our views with our director.. Every

thing within the AMHA seem to revolve around shows.. when such a small per cent of the members show.

This does not mean they don't care or want to see certain things happen within the AMHA.

If the AMHA want to increase membership..then start representing the members..
 
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bingo

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Maybe this has been asked? But why not just have those that want to mail in vote pay for it? Pick a fee that will more then cover costs. Say like $50 -$60 bucks.That is much cheaper then going to the conventions in either registry and might help with those that truly want to vote having to pay for it.

Then require they have everything signed off by a notary public (at individual members expense) to at least help in authenticity.

Members could call AMHA office (or AMHR when and if this applies) request a voting packet pay the fee and then have it sent to them it might help on the cost issue?

I would think the fee might help those that are no longer active or don't participate from just randomly voting without making sure they are informed on issues ?
 
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McBunz

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That is something like the new protest fee.. jumped up to $100. to make it harder for people to protest.

We each have a member number... Vote with that... or assign a pin number. We have already seen

on the polls and things on this board that the vote could be done for nothing.. Just a new poll or vote for

each item on the agenda.
 

McBunz

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And it is a given that we will not reach all the AMHA members. In this day and age everyone can access

the web.. even if it means using public computer somewhere.. Why does this have to be so complicated.?

Members could choose which issues they vote for.. It might not be the perfect solution but it would for sure

have more member input than the 100 that attend the meeting..
 

Vertical Limit

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You know, I went out and read the TEXAS STATE STATUTUES concerning "absentee" voting, and I would think that what's good enough for the State of Texas, ought to be good enough for the AMHA--where they live and work.

It seems that the AMHA wants a process that is more confusing, expensive, "guaranteed legit" and convoluted than even Texas requires for voting for the PRESIDENT OF THE U.S. !!

But, I would suspect, that it's their idea to make it difficult, so the membership is KEPT from having a vote unless they can appear "in person!"
You know Diane, I have to agree. Talking about making a mountain out of a mole hill!


Not that I am saying voting is not important, but if you can compile a list of members you certainly can find an uncomplicated, cost effective way to vote. (and check off names after each have voted) The more difficult some are making it seem, the more comical it gets. It's just ridiculous!

Maybe this has been asked? But why not just have those that want to mail in vote pay for it? Pick a fee that will more then cover costs. Say like $50 -$60 bucks.That is much cheaper then going to the conventions in either registry and might help with those that truly want to vote having to pay for it.
Personally this is a very sensible idea. But again, things are being made to look like this is an unsurmountable task to keep the idea of voting out of the picture. They simply don't want or care your vote.
 

rabbitsfizz

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I would not be willing, nor should I be asked to, pay in order to be able to vote, that is undemocratic, I'm afraid.

If you pay a membership fee then you have the right to vote, end of story.

It should not be that you have to fly half way round the world, or pay a fee in order to vote...sorry, I know people are coming up with ideas off the top of their heads, and I think it great that they should try, but this has to be a FREE vote, and the AMHA needs to look into cheaper venues!!!!!

The cost of the meeting is ridiculous...do we have a complete breakdown on how that is spent??

It would almost seem it would be, in the long run, cheaper to build a meeting hall at the offices in Texas- why was that not looked into when the place was built??

Such a hall would provide year round income to, as it could be let out......

It has seemed to me, for years now, that the AMHA powers that be have no interest in what the membership want, and now we have started sitting up and taking notice both they and we are becoming paranoid.

Somehow we need to get to a place where the respect, on both sides, comes back, and if that means some people leaving, so be it.
 

Vertical Limit

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Well, Jane I have to agree with you. It shouldn't cost a freakin' DIME to vote, but I would if that was the only way to get it done. I don't remember paying for a Voters ID or paying when I walk into the polls either. :DOH!
 
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sfmini

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And sfmini:

One area I forsee being cut sadly will be the webcast due to the lack of participation. I will have a hard time selling them on it again with the low numbers of viewers last year.
REALLY????? ISN'T THAT A SURPRISE !!!

I don't believe that ANYONE really expects them to offer this again for any number of reasons they'll come up with--just because it let people know what REALLY goes on, and they weren't so "popular" after it could be "seen" how processes were violated.

So, has this been discussed, and this is our way of learning that they won't be doing it again? Is this once again the "throw out" rumor ?

Ah, the grand LB conspiracy theory at work again.

No, that is only my personal thought, there has been no discussion on this topic with the rest of the BOD. It will probably be discussed at the June meeting, I am merely guessing. My mistake, should know better than to post personal speculation. Please do note, I plan on trying to sell the idea once again, but I don't know how far I will get.

As for the cost of the meeting locations, to do it always in Texas would require rule changes as the rule book mandates that the meeting rotate through the country to give members a better chance at being able to attend a meeting. The person responsible for locations does shop several locations for price, and quality as nobody will come to a dump. They usually give us 3 cities to choose from and the membership at the annual meeting votes on the city. Then that city is shopped for the best location/price and those options are presented for selection. Negotiations are made for a block of rooms, we guarantee a certain number of rooms will be taken by members, in exchange we get a discounted rate on rooms, and sometimes the meeting rooms.

In June we stay at a Radisson, not cheap, but a free breakfast is given for each room and it sure is much nicer than the dump we used to go to. That was a major name chain but the motel was a major dump, some rooms flooded during rains, and had mold issues. Our room rate at the new motel is higher, but much nicer and healthier. Plus each room has a fridge and microwave. Rooms with a single king bed have those sleep number beds, something I would love to try, but since I always share the room with 1 or two others, we go for two queen beds.
 
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sdmini

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I have started a reply to the other thread not once, or twice but four times only to return to the computer with it mysteriously gone. After a discussion with my 7 year old I'm hoping this one gets completed.

I have never been against voting, I have talked to many different people over the last few years and gotten a handle on why it is going to be an up hill climb.

First off is cost, for any proposal to be taken seriously the cost needs to be accurate. If it's paper ballots an outside tabulating company would need to be hired to count the votes. This, I'm told, can not be done in house for legality reasons. If we had a computer system that could accommodate an on-line voting it would eliminate all of this but we do not. I don't know if there are websites that could be hired that has safety measures in place to make sure those voting are who they profess to be. If the cost is high a way to offset it also needs to be addressed. Blindly wanting things is what got AMHA in trouble in the first place.

Does anyone remember this thread?

Why not have paper ballots for Voting in AMHA??

Region 8 674 ballots mailed out at the cost of $653.78 4 were returned for elections.

Region 9 1195 ballots mailed out at the cost of $1,159.15 11 were returned for elections.

Regions 10 432 ballots mailed out at the cost of $298.08 3 were returned for elections.

Region 11 244 ballots mailed out at the cost of $168.36 none were returned for elections

Region 13 408 ballots mailed out at the cost of $236.64 21 were returned for elections.

2953 ballots mailed out 39 returned.
For space I've deleted some content but the whole thread can be found here.

A forum set up to discuss up-coming rules is a relatively easy thing, heck I've done it for our club, unfortunately it has dismal participation.

I do not like the idea of printing off your ballot. I much more prefer one placed in the World, those not getting the World can request one for a small fee of $2-$3 to offset the cost, which is quite a bit cheaper than what I pay for the magazine. It may be able to be done on post card, with a simple Vote yes or no on article 47b. If you wish to know what 47B is you would need to log on, or perhaps a break down listed in the World so to vote you have to inform yourself.

I've no doubt that this is going to be met with resistance by some at the meetings because they like controlling things, to an extent, but they have never had a serious proposal that addressed all the requirements. Presenting a well thought out proposal is still no guarantee that it will not be killed but it makes it harder for them to do so.

In our small club we have a small percentage of people that show up for the meetings and participate. THAT IS FINE as for some there is a good distance to drive or other obligations but we love it when we get new members to show up for meetings. Why, because it's a fresh perspective a chance to see an issue from someone else's point of view.

I do think that 1% of member turn out for the AMHA meetings is sad but I see it as 1% of the member are doing the work for majority. Meetings will still have to happen as there is more that goes on than simply voting on issues so the cost is going to be there no matter what.

Yes we do vote for our president, UT alone spent $850,000 for their presidential primary. (Actually this is what they set aside but due to the use of electronic voting machines it was something like 3.4 Million.)

Now let me tackle to statement on the other thread that got me in so much trouble.

Many that attend these meetings are no more wealthy than you or I and have to prioritize to budget in attending the meetings.
My point was simply that time and time again I hear how it's too far or cost too much money so only the wealthy go. I DO NOT ATTEND but I know several people that do that travel great distances, hire someone to watch their animals, budget year long to cover cost, have sick family members or are sick themselves that do go. It is a priority for them to attend and while there are many decisions they make I do not agree with I do respect them for that.
 

tagalong

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Ah, the grand LB conspiracy theory at work again.
And THAT ^^^ is why I tend to stay out of these threads - as the "conspiracies" tend to overpower anything else that is said - even by someone who was there. Even questions asked by those seeking clarity have often been summarily dismissed as they may not mesh with an accepted conspiracy. I have seen sfminis sneered at, insulted and poked and prodded incessantly - and yet she manages to nod and smile and and carry on.

If AMHR, AQHA... many big organizations... were routinely put under the high intensity microscope, scrutiny and condemnation that some only turn on AMHA - as witness by repeated threads that only get nasty... there would no doubt be many questions raised elsewhere as well.

I am not saying that everything to do with AMHA is peachy-keen - far from it - but the repeated nasty threads and bashing serve no purpose. None.

Some only seem to sail into those threads simply to light fires, trash and bash. That is counterproductive.

REALLY????? ISN'T THAT A SURPRISE !!!I don't believe that ANYONE really expects them to offer this again for any number of reasons they'll come up with--just because it let people know what REALLY goes on, and they weren't so "popular" after it could be "seen" how processes were violated.
So... what REALLY goes on then? Supply details instead of slinging accusations around... otherwise it is nothing more than gossip. I see no reason for a webcast to continue if there were not enough watching to justify the cost - if one was so suspicious about "processes being violated" - or upset abput the expense of attending meetings etc. then why would one not watch the webcast if it was offered? That would make sense to me. It is live - it cannot be edited - what you see is what you get. So then - watch it. Only it costs $$$ - and off we go again....

2953 ballots mailed out 39 returned.
I do remember that thread - and found it depressing... if only a small percentage of the curretn membership could be bothered to vote... and yet threads are full of outrage and angst about members not having a say in what happens.

You raise many interesting points in your post, sdmini. Well said.
 
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minimomNC

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What you also need to understand about mailing out ballots is you can't just send out one propsal, there are alot of things voted on at the annual meeting, most have been talked out in the committee meetings where they were brought forward. The commitees recommend if it should be passed, failed or have no opinion. Then the membership votes on it.

Then there is election of the Executive Committee, the nominees are decided on there, not months ahead of time so you couldn't send out ballots to vote. And why wouldn't you want a say so on who is running your organization. They can only come from the directors so that does cut down on who can run, but if you want a voice that will listen to you, it has to start with your directors. You say they don't listen, then when you have the chance, put in someone who does, its your area, its your choice. Find out when your directors are up for election and get someone in there who you think will do their best for you and who in your mind could handle the jobs that are there, and who you know won't be afraid to go against something if thats how their area people feel. If you cannot attend meetings then start getting your voice heard with your directors and put people in there that you trust, don't just throw the ballot away, thats wasting your hard earned money.
 
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Michelle@wescofarms

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Great points! It's true the EC vote occurs at the meeting along with many of the issues that come from committees.

[[SIZE=8pt]i]What you also need to understand about mailing out ballots is you can't just send out one propsal, there are alot of things voted on at the annual meeting, most have been talked out in the committee meetings where they were brought forward. The commitees recommend if it should be passed, failed or have no opinion. Then the membership votes on it. [/SIZE]

Then there is election of the Executive Committee, the nominees are decided on there, not months ahead of time so you couldn't send out ballots to vote. And why wouldn't you want a say so on who is running your organization. They can only come from the directors so that does cut down on who can run, but if you want a voice that will listen to you, it has to start with your directors. You say they don't listen, then when you have the chance, put in someone who does, its your area, its your choice. Find out when your directors are up for election and get someone in there who you think will do their best for you and who in your mind could handle the jobs that are there, and who you know won't be afraid to go against something if thats how their area people feel. If you cannot attend meetings then start getting your voice heard with your directors and put people in there that you trust, don't just throw the ballot away, thats wasting your hard earned money.[/i]

As for the Webcast - that is bummer if they don't continue it. It can be valuable for the membership to feel invovled.
 

tagalong

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Tagalong,

Thank you. I did watch the un-edited webcast and did see the process.
Well then - what specific processes did you see violated and what REALLY went on - to quote you - that was so outrageous? If you are going to sling accusations like that about, then it is best to back them up and not simply allude to scandalous stuff that may or may not have gone on...

That does no one any good whatsoever...
 
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Kim

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Does anyone remember this thread?

Why not have paper ballots for Voting in AMHA??

Region 8 674 ballots mailed out at the cost of $653.78 4 were returned for elections.

Region 9 1195 ballots mailed out at the cost of $1,159.15 11 were returned for elections.

Regions 10 432 ballots mailed out at the cost of $298.08 3 were returned for elections.

Region 11 244 ballots mailed out at the cost of $168.36 none were returned for elections

Region 13 408 ballots mailed out at the cost of $236.64 21 were returned for elections.

2953 ballots mailed out 39 returned.
For space I've deleted some content but the whole thread can be found here.
I recall that thread, and it came to light somewhere in the midst of the discussion on either that thread or another at the same time that these statistics referred NOT to the number of people who sent in a mail in vote for their director, but rather to the precursor to the voting process, that being the nomination of candidates. For example, in Region 8, 4 members sent back to AMHA a ballot listing/nominating a candidate for director, while in Region 13, 21 members sent nomination forms back.

If so, then I at least don't see anything wrong with these numbers - being a director is time consuming and expensive and not many people are able to let their name stand. Also, each candidate only needs to be nominated once, so people behind that candidate don't have to each send in a nomination - one will suffice.

So these numbers above do not necessarily reflect member interest and participation in voting by mail. If I recall, the statistics on how many people actually sent back their votes for director were not listed here on LB and I believe it was mentioned that AMHA doesn't even know how many votes were cast as the ballots went to an independent audit company for tabulation.
 

minimomNC

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Kim, these numbers are from AMHA and they are the numbers that actually sent in a ballot to vote for their directors, not nominiations. What several people then said was if there was only one nominee, they just threw their ballots away and didn't bother to send it in which is why the numbers were so low.
 

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