AMHA Membership Numbers and my thoughts on the little guy being heard.

[Ronnie]

I posted this same information as a reply to another tread but it is pretty far down the line and I thought it worth reposting as I have heard a lot of rumors about AMHA's declining membership. While there is not a decline I would love to see a big increase!

I don't mind at all sharing AMHA's membership numbers. Here are the official numbers since 1993:

Year - Total Members as of 12-31 for the listed year

1993 - 5747

1994 - 6281

1995 - 6902

1996 - 8180

1997 - 7860

1998 - 9641

1999 - 11674

2000 - 11722

2001 - 11317

2002 - 11966

2003 - 12036

2004 - 11106

2005 - 12090

2006 - 12025 as of 12-11-06

As for the little guy or small farm not being heard or having a chance to make a difference as I have heard so many say, I can attest from personal experience that is not true. I came from the Quarter Horse world and got into Miniatures in early 1993. I am by no means a big shot, I am not rich (ask any of my creditors) and take most of my meals through a drive through window, and when we started I only knew two other people that owned Miniatures. My wife and I got involved at the local level and started learning all we could and stepping up when we could to help out. Since then this little nobody in the business has served on numerous committees, on the AMHA B.O.D. for six years, on the Executive Committee for three years, and as AMHA President. Janet and I have also helped manage some of the biggest sales in the industry. When we first started people did not come rushing out with open arms everywhere we went but I was not offended or put off by that because they didn’t know us and we did not expect the red carpet treatment. We have come a long ways since then and there are a few people now that recognize us. Absolutely none of this is intended to blow my on horn but only to illustrate that anyone who wants to and makes the effort can get involved and can have a voice in AMHA and/or AMHR. My goal has always been to be part of the solution not the problem and while I may not have always been successful in that attempt that mind set has let me sleep well at nights. I know I got a little off topic there but it always concerns me that some feel they are ignored or the association does not care about them because they are a “small fishâ€. Take it form someone that has set on both sides of the table, you are important, the AMHA does care, and you can make a difference. Things may not always come out just the way you wanted but your voice and input in the decision process can be heard and is important. If it were not for “small fish†there would not be a pond and no where for you to grow into “big fishâ€.

Ronnie Clifton

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Thanks for posting the membership info it's interesting to see that it hasn't declined much over the past years but has also stayed pretty much the same for the past 8 years

I wonder how many of those are life time memberships but I guess in the grand scheme of things that doesnt really matter

I to even though I am not longer a member with no plans in the near future to become a member again.. hope they find something that enables them to increase there membership in the next few years rather then remain the same

 

[kaykay]

Ronnie

I so applaud you for posting this! It is interesting to see that although the numbers havent gone down drastically they are not increasing which indicates stagnancy. When numbers stay the same it usually shows members leaving and new members coming in at the same rate. One canceling out the other. But eventually I feel the numbers will drop unless something is done to get back the members that stopped joining. I feel that the amha national show reflects the same thing. No increase and numbers just staying the same.

For sure if this was a private corporation this would not be considered good numbers at all.

Also i was one that posted i am just a very small fish in a huge pond. Yep im a little dog. I dont expect red carpet treatment, or people to come rushing to me with open arms. I do expect an office that runs efficiently run by a President with ethics and integrity. And I want excellent customer service every single time I call. Why?? Because I am the customer and I am paying for a service.

Ronnie i just read your reply on the other thread. Im sorry but yes these numbers do show a decline. amha lost 65 members in 2006. While that is not HUGE its not good either. I am one of those 65 that amha lost in 2006. Again no big deal but if it was MY company and I lost 65 customers I would find out why before it becomes 165 etc etc.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Ronnie, Thank you for reminding us just how it does work. I will be staying a member and hoping that AMHA will overcome it's financial difficulties. It would truly be a shame for the organization to go down. I see a lot of breeders don't want to see a B division added but I do wonder if that won't be necessary in order to survive. I think AMHR is in much better shape financially because of many reasons.

They do have athe ability to register a lot more horses because they do have the talller ones. There are also the different branches which brings in more money. Many people have not wanted to pay for the extra costs of DNA etc. that AMHA has and therefore find AMHR more affordable for them. [this will probably change] I am sure there are many reasons...sometimes it is about how money is managed. Regarless, I do hope AMHA is able to become strong and maintain the goal of breeding for these wonderful little horses. Mary

 

[Cathy_H]

Since I just posted this under Mona's topic I am also putting my thoughts on numbers on this one......................................... Now lets see the numbers for exhibitors at AMHA shows! ........ Read the second paragraph in the latest MHW - page 10 writtten by O'Connell/ Treasurer........"

Revenue continues to run uder the plan driven by numerous factors including a reduction in the number of members (and horses) showing at our shows. This appears to be an industry (equine breeds ) wide phenomenon ( with a few exceptions).......................... We're looking at different ways to increase attendance

-..................... Well here's a unique never heard of suggestion -

: how about starting with measuring correctly at the shows!

: .................... Wanted to add that a decrease in AMHA memberships could soon follow the decrease in show exhibitors - remember lots of us have fewer dollars to play with nowadays - something has to go........... Current problems need to be taken care of - another avenue with more rules to break will not solve the unrest.

 

[Ronnie]

Ronnie

I so applaud you for posting this! It is interesting to see that although the numbers havent gone down drastically they are not increasing which indicates stagnancy. When numbers stay the same it usually shows members leaving and new members coming in at the same rate. One canceling out the other. But eventually I feel the numbers will drop unless something is done to get back the members that stopped joining. I feel that the amha national show reflects the same thing. No increase and numbers just staying the same.

For sure if this was a private corporation this would not be considered good numbers at all.

Also i was one that posted i am just a very small fish in a huge pond. Yep im a little dog. I dont expect red carpet treatment, or people to come rushing to me with open arms. I do expect an office that runs efficiently run by a President with ethics and integrity. And I want excellent customer service every single time I call. Why?? Because I am the customer and I am paying for a service.

Ronnie i just read your reply on the other thread. Im sorry but yes these numbers do show a decline. amha lost 65 members in 2006. While that is not HUGE its not good either. I am one of those 65 that amha lost in 2006. Again no big deal but if it was MY company and I lost 65 customers I would find out why before it becomes 165 etc etc.

Kay,

I hope know one took my post wrong. I did not mean to imply anyone expected the Red Carpet Treatment, only that everyone is important in the grand scheme of things and I hope they all realize that. All of us don't own a huge farm, 200 horses, or a National or World Grand Champion. I totally agree with you on expecting an efficiently run and member/customer oriented office that provides fast friendly customer service, which is why they are there. I truly believe our office staff tries to meet those objectives to the best of their ability. There have been circumstances in the past and may be again in the future that hinders them achieving those objectives but overall I think they have done very well. As for ethics and integrity we have had officials where those qualities have come into question, some times justly so and some times not, but the bad ones seem to eventually eliminate themselves and we move on.

I am also not thrilled with membership being flat for the last several years because as you point out if we were doing all we could then the numbers should be growing. As for the 65 drop this year that is not a final number because since we went to a full 12 month membership instead of a calendar year we have memberships coming in all year and there was three weeks left when these numbers were compiled on 12/11/06 so the total for 2006 should go up some by year end. Will if meet or exceed last year? Don’t know yet but I sure would like to see it.

Thanks to you and everyone else that takes time to have input and tries to influence positive change. We should all remember from the AMHA Executive Committee all the way down to the newest member that if it were not for the grass roots the pretty green grass would dry up and blow away.

Best Regards,

Ronnie

 

[SweetOpal]

Ronnie,

Would you be able to give a break down on the amount of horses that are registered every year with the AMHA, meaning new registrations, transfers, and what not? When I was at the R convention they did pass out this information, I found it to be very informative.

 

[Ronnie]

Ronnie,

Would you be able to give a break down on the amount of horses that are registered every year with the AMHA, meaning new registrations, transfers, and what not? When I was at the R convention they did pass out this information, I found it to be very informative.

This information has been shared at the AMHA convention before also but I don't have it readily avalable. I will see if I can get it.

Ronnie

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Ronnie could you please tell us why the BOD is SO resistant to the idea of postal voting??

I have been a member (on and off!!) for over 20 years and it was one of the first things I became aware of- I had NO voice, no way I could vote in my own society- WHY???

It has been being asked for all the time I have been involved- sine 1987- WHY has postal voting not been instigated.??

It does, I am afraid, lead me to believe that the Association is afraid of it's members and what they have to say, rather than wanting to hear them.

 

[Littleum]

Looking at the numbers, it seems AMHA's membership has stayed pretty much the same for the past 7 years. Not a decline, but NOT growth by any measure. 7 years of stagnation is as telling as a major decline would be.

So AMHA is basically replacing members as fast as they're bleeding them. That's hardly an accomplishment- you can attract new members, but can't hold onto the old ones. How can the breed grow and mature under these circumstances?

Or you're simply doing neither- and it's the same old people year after year. How can the breed grow and mature under these circumstances?

I have had Honor Roll winners, I have been to Worlds, I have gone to many shows, bought horses, I plan on breeding a mare in 2007. In short, I am a "small owner", but a quality member. I don't post here often, so anyone who doesn't "know me"- I'm Kristen Haglund (now Riegel)

I'm also a "done" member and have ZERO plans on renewing my membership for the forseeable future.

I have become completly tired of a number of things I see happen year after year after year. Let's begin with the joke measuring has become and go from there. AMHA's continuing failure over the last 20 years to address this CRITICAL breed-defining issue is laughable. Wait... didn't someone suggest AMHS? Will there be some amnesty to go along with that? Seems more like a smokescreen then a solution to me. When AMHA takes a hardline stance on measuring and girds up to develop a process to support it, call me. I'll lend a hand to develop it.

You speak of everyone has a voice and a chance to influence change within the organization. Unfortunatly AMHA continues to make it very difficult for those of us with things like jobs and budgets to participate in the policy making process and be heard. The majority of people I see in attendance year in and year out are the very same people who are doing "just fine" in our industry and clearly benefit from the status quo.

I'm done supporting AMHA as it is now. I will happily return when AMHA gives smaller owners of more humble means such as myself a chance to directly voice opinions (and not through a mouthpiece director ), vote on critical issues and feel as though they are capable of exerting direct and REAL influence on the direction of the breed.

So while I'm sure AMHA will attract a member to replace me, all you've done is tred water.

 

[kaykay]

Ronnie

I just want to say I do appreciate all you do. And likewise I think Tony Greaves does a lot for amha and works hard to promote miniature horses just like you do. I have total respect for both of you!!

And I am not totally closed to becoming an amha member again. I would do it again in a heartbeat if I think things are getting better or at least see an attempt to address the issues of past years. Not going to go into all the rumors etc that have been passed around but they werent pretty. The thing is us little guys dont know how much was true and how much wasnt because no one in amha will address any of it. Its always "dont look back just go forward" I am a firm believer in "those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it" I havent been around long at all but dang its the same problems year after year.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Just curious, do you think AMHR is better at measuring and allowing a vote on matters? Mary

Looking at the numbers, it seems AMHA's membership has stayed pretty much the same for the past 7 years. Not a decline, but NOT growth by any measure. 7 years of stagnation is as telling as a major decline would be.

So AMHA is basically replacing members as fast as they're bleeding them. That's hardly an accomplishment- you can attract new members, but can't hold onto the old ones. How can the breed grow and mature under these circumstances?

Or you're simply doing neither- and it's the same old people year after year. How can the breed grow and mature under these circumstances?

I have had Honor Roll winners, I have been to Worlds, I have gone to many shows, bought horses, I plan on breeding a mare in 2007. In short, I am a "small owner", but a quality member. I don't post here often, so anyone who doesn't "know me"- I'm Kristen Haglund (now Riegel)

I'm also a "done" member and have ZERO plans on renewing my membership for the forseeable future.

I have become completly tired of a number of things I see happen year after year after year. Let's begin with the joke measuring has become and go from there. AMHA's continuing failure over the last 20 years to address this CRITICAL breed-defining issue is laughable. Wait... didn't someone suggest AMHS? Will there be some amnesty to go along with that? Seems more like a smokescreen then a solution to me. When AMHA takes a hardline stance on measuring and girds up to develop a process to support it, call me. I'll lend a hand to develop it.

You speak of everyone has a voice and a chance to influence change within the organization. Unfortunatly AMHA continues to make it very difficult for those of us with things like jobs and budgets to participate in the policy making process and be heard. The majority of people I see in attendance year in and year out are the very same people who are doing "just fine" in our industry and clearly benefit from the status quo.

I'm done supporting AMHA as it is now. I will happily return when AMHA gives smaller owners of more humble means such as myself a chance to directly voice opinions (and not through a mouthpiece director ), vote on critical issues and feel as though they are capable of exerting direct and REAL influence on the direction of the breed.

So while I'm sure AMHA will attract a member to replace me, all you've done is tred water.

 

[kaykay]

mary lou i so agree that amhr also has a huge measuring problem. no doubt about it. but this thread is on amha membership numbers and wether it has declined or not.

i have only not been an amha for 2006 and i am very conflicted about it. I will probably join amha again in jan and give it one more try. Measuring issues had nothing to do with why i didnt renew my membership. And I know without a doubt it wont make a bit of difference to amha wether I rejoin or not. I have no illusions there LOL.

the biggest difference between the two registries in my humble opinion (other then the B division) is that amhr numbers continue to grow and amhr is and has always been financially stable.

I DO NOT want to see amha gone due to financial problems. That would not be good for anyone who owns amha horses. Just want to be clear

I WANT to see amha succeed!

 

[Littleum]

Just curious, do you think AMHR is better at measuring and allowing a vote on matters? Mary

In all honesty, I have no position on AMHR's policies simply because I'm not familar enough. I've had 10+ years to watch how AMHA handles discplinary actions, rule violations, conflicts and its members. I've watched AMHR a fraction of that- it really isn't a big enough sampling to draw any kind of conclusions whatsoever.

My post didn't mention AMHR, WCMHR or any other registry. It's not about AMHA vs Some Other Registery. IMO all the registeries are quite unique (at the moment, anyhow) in offerings AND attitude, so a direct comparsion really isn't possible.

I'd also like to add I want to see AMHA survive and flourish. I'd like to be part of the solution and not the problem (members walking away in disgust) Unfortunatly until AMHA at least makes it so that I can listen to a webcast of the Annual Meeting and cast my vote online/in the mail, I'm going to have to walk away, because the only other option is to sit and be frusterated.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I do understand this thread is not about AMHR but on the other hand I am hearing many of the same complaints about AMHA as I have heard about AMHR. Both the same problems have been talked about a lot over the years on other forums and I am wondering if any one is leaving AMHA because of those reasons, you might as well be prpared to see the same with AMHR. I have had more experiences with AMHR and as I read these posts about people leaving AMHA because of these problems I wonder if they know what they are up against with other organizations. I deal with both and really haven't seen any differences when it comes to the treatment of members. Just curious, no harm intended, Mary

Oh yea, this topic is also about the little guy being heard and I think I am just a little guy.

Just curious, do you think AMHR is better at measuring and allowing a vote on matters? Mary

In all honesty, I have no position on AMHR's policies simply because I'm not familar enough. I've had 10+ years to watch how AMHA handles discplinary actions, rule violations, conflicts and its members. I've watched AMHR a fraction of that- it really isn't a big enough sampling to draw any kind of conclusions whatsoever.

My post didn't mention AMHR, WCMHR or any other registry. It's not about AMHA vs Some Other Registery. IMO all the registeries are quite unique (at the moment, anyhow) in offerings AND attitude, so a direct comparsion really isn't possible.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Just my opinion here so please don't shoot me.. But MOST of the people that complain the MOST about AMHA are PROUD non-members.. I recall EVERY YEAR just after the AMHR Nationals we go through the horses look BIG & measuring over crap too so it is NOT just an AMHA problem..

I for one am a VERY HAPPY AMHA & AMHR MEMBER...

Mary Lou I agree with you that yes people always complain about measuring no matter what registry. Personally it is something I dont understand in that if you truly feel strongly about your horse and its conformation then how is a horse jsut simply being .50 even 1 in taller going to automatically win due to it's height?

I gotta say that is something I just never get. I have seen amazing little horses and icky large ones and vice versa I have yet to talk to a judge who says oh I placed that one cause it was the taller one

:

All registeries have issues and of course being human I personally just flat out dont like it when things dont go my way- I may complain a bit(sometimes more then abit) and will almost always get over it and see why it doesnt go according to Lisa

:

:

 

[hhpminis]

Ronnie

Thank you for posting this information. Although not great, it is better than I thought.

You have some very good points and I also never expect to recieve the red carpet or open arms. However, I do expect to get heard when I speak. I admit, I have only been to one other AMHA National meeting, it was when they had an issue I felt strongly about, the closing of the registry. I went, I spoke, I voted and we were successful. I have to say that it was many of the big breeders for the closing and a lot of us small "fish" were against. We were allowed to debate our concerns and were heard. It was the presence of a lot of small fish that made it happen.

I have just this weekend began making plans to attend this years meeting as again, there are things on the table that I feel very strongly about. I guess if we continue to feel that our voice doesn't matter, than it wont.

I truly feel the new proposal for an over registry is a waste of money and no one will contribute to it. It will be money spent that we do not have. Many members of AMHA have been very vocal about the fact that R horses go to R because they are not good enough to be an A horse, (in their opinion). How do you suck that up and now say, hey welcome, come on in? AMHR is supplying all we need for the over division, why join another, and certainly, the majority of the AMHA breeders are not going to admit that their horses are over and turn their papers in. So many of us are overwhelmed with trying to keep our existing A/R registered horses up to date with paperwork and expenses why would anyone want to have to do that with the overs as well. If this passes, I truly feel it will be one more brick out of the bridge that is keeping them above water right now.

I want very much to see AMHA succeed. I want them to flourish. AMHA has definite strong points. They have been a leader in the marketing and promoting of the miniature horse. Somehing that all owenrs of small equines can benefit from.

I understand that going to the meeting is not feasible for all and am not saying that if you care you will be there, I would not be so presumptuous as that. Many of us are working people and even if we could afford it, getting the time off is near impossible. But I do encourage all, if there is any way they can, come and let your voice be heard on the issues that concern you. If it doesn't go the way I want and I am not there than I need to accept the ruling and follow, but if I am there and speak up, maybe I can sway someone sitting on the fence to my side, maybe other "little fish" will find the courage to stand up and be heard.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Many members of AMHA have been very vocal about the fact that R horses go to R because they are not good enough to be an A horse, (in their opinion). ]

Annette, I am really interested in what is being said about all this with AMHA and I figure the only way I am going to really understand certain things is to ask, so please be patient with me. I am surprised to hear that you think many AMHA members have been very vocal about the fact that R horses go to R because they are not good enough to be an A horse? I just can't find where any one said that so I wonder where that came from...will you tell me? Thanks, Mary

 

[J.E.F.]

As a little Guppie in a Big Pond, I would like to add my 2 cents worth. I dont wish to offend anyone, however I left AMHA because of all the bickering, Fees, and lack of help from the association. My membership ended this month, not because I am upset with the measureing, but the bickering. There are rules, and these rules should be followed to the letter in any judgeing. If they are not followed by all then why have the rule. As an old teacher the rules are for everyone! And should be followed. Makes life a lot eaiser. Being new to the Mini world, I expected professional help in obtaining the necessary information to be a productive member. unfortunality there doesnt seem to be much information out there, except from other horse owners. As for the fees, it is prohibitive for some to pay the costs. hardship for a mini is 2000 dollars. this is outrageous. Membership fee $55.00, registeration of a horse, DNA testing, Transfer fees, all this is fine and good for some, but for me it is too costly. If AMHA is only interested in the show ring fine and good but I am not. I have beautiful quality horses. That I just want to enjoy. and see that it has a good long life. Finding information on the health issues, training, and behavioral issues are my interests. The magizine is beautiful but doesnt help much with what I am interested in. If 33 inches is the top for AMHA then it should be 33, not 1/2 inch more. A Class B or Breeder stock would be fine. I see nothing wrong with that but as I have one Whos dam was over height he is registered with AMHR, even though he is just 29 inchs tall. And he is out of one of the best National Champions in the US ( Fire and Ice). To restate my main reason for this post is MAKE THE RULES STICK, RETHINK THE FEES, AND MAKE INFORMATION AVAILABLE. I would rejoin today if the bickering would stop.

 

[mistyrose]

"As for the fees, it is prohibitive for some to pay the costs. hardship for a mini is 2000 dollars. this is outrageous."

Hardship for a mini is not $2000.00. It is $1200 for a stallion, $600 for a mare and $500 for a gelding.

To hardship a horse in should not be cheap because it only helps the breed if the horses being admitted to the registry are of exceptional quality. The idea of hardship is to bring in animals that will add quality to the breed not just numbers.

"If 33 inches is the top for AMHA then it should be 33, not 1/2 inch more."

The top for AMHA is 34".

Everyone in AMHA is able to vote by mail for their director. They always have been. If you aren't able to make the membership meeting, you can be heard through letters to your directors and committees. Those letters are read and refered to when items are discussed.

AMHA has just institued a measuring certification. I know because I took the class and have my card now. So the issue is not being ignored.

The reason it seems that AMHA is always in upset mode is because we allow the membership such a large impact. The discussions help us design rules and react to what the members want. But remember not all members want the same thing so compromise is always part of the equation.

It doesn't help the dialog when people get on and just bash things. If you have a suggestion to fix a problem lets hear it.