AMHA is CLosing Their Books!! As well as a new Height rule change!!

[rabbitsfizz]

In order to be taken seriously by every other horse registration society in the world, measuring to the top of the whithers is the only way to go.

Time and time again the AMHA have been advised how to do this, easily, without making any horses "overheight" that are registered now, have been registered and would be eligible for registration within an acceptable timeframe, but they just keep throwing up the old chestnuts and it is wearing very thin.

We, in Europe, do not want smaller horses, we want horses that really are the height that they claim to be, not two or three inches higher, that's all!!

And, yes, the gene pool is too small, and this will possibly come back to bite the AMHA on the backside, or possibly not, it is all rhetorical- when was the last time the BOD actually took any action based on members (ordinary, person in the street, not "top breeder/shower" person) wishes???

 

[Riverdance]

Yes I feel AMHA will loose out on a lot of good horse flesh to be had by closing the doors; I can think of several AMHR horses that were hardshipping in just recently that are already making an impact........and there would have been many more.

While yes it may reduce of the "grade" or "pet" breeding happening, it's also going to reduce some of those really nice AMHR horses from being added to your gene pool, but that's just my opinion coming from someone who tries to bred the type of horse that I like, and as close to the best that I can, whether, 30" or 36". AMHA or AMHR.

So I'm guessing the new rule about measuring is for show purposes and for new horses being registered? As what about all your 33.5-34" horses that have already shown, got papers, production records; and they have a "dip" and it's measured at 34.5??

Measurements anywhere just need to be consistent; I don't show at worlds, but I watched measurements on many of horses, some horses were allowed to stand however they pleased, front legs a foot part, parked out, head held up; other people were not even allowed to stand square - horses were standing way up under themselves and measured on their withers (talking about last year when it was last mane hairs) this is not coming from an exhibitor who feels their horses were not measured right as I didn't have a single horse down there, but from a spectator and member of that association.

AMHA feels that they have a large enough gene pool. They want to focus on creating a breed registration rather then just a height registration.

There have been some real problems with some of the horses that were allowed in, as they were really oversized and should never have been allowed in. This will now creat a problem with more oversized horses. You all must have heard about the horses that were pulled at the World or who had to change classes.

That is also why they have created a different way of measuring, something that the Europeans wanted too.

They like them smaller over there then even what we breed. They would prefer nothing taller than 32".

.

 

[ThreeCFarm]

[

That is also why they have created a different way of measuring, something that the Europeans wanted too.

They like them smaller over there then even what we breed. They would prefer nothing taller than 32".

.

That is because they measure at the top of the withers (yes, the minis too!), which is why, going by OUR measurement, they want nothing over 32", as then they know it should measure in at the highest point of the withers.

BTW, I just went outside and felt for a "groove" on 6 horses. I guess I must be stupid after 15 years with horses (big horses), but I certainly couldn't find one. And shouldn't we be using a spot to measure that can be seen by those watching, not just felt by the measurer???? Now how is this going to be policed?

 

[Sunshine Acres]

Actually this will not measure out horses in fact it will do the opposite. Most horses have the BASE OF THE WITHER LOWER then the last mane hairs. I think most horses that have measured out at 34.50 and 35.0 can perhaps measure in now.

Remember this is measuring at the base of the withers still not like the rest of the horse world. Not the highest point of the withers so in essence taller horses will now measure in at 34.00 with this new rule

This has nothing to do with how they measure overseas so really was not brought on for that reason.

JMO

 

[ThreeCFarm]

That is sad that we still can't measure like the rest of the horse world...

So, will they still be 34" and under? Or is that going to change to go along with the new way of measuring? I'm going to have to go out to see if I can find this "groove." Surely finding the highest point of the withers would be easier???? sigh...

If we change it to measure at the withers (which was proposed) then many horses that measure in today, would no longer measure in. Many horses have higher withers than their back. This could create a real problem with many of the horses out there measuring and throwing 33+" horses. I have a mare, for instance, at the last hair she is 33 1/4", at the withers, she is over 34". She is a AMHA World Top 10, if we did the withers, she would be out as would many others. sS, yes, we are still at 34", but the grove is in the same area as the mane. A last mane hair can be just about anywhere on a horse, the grove is always aat the base of the withers.

You couldn't pull papers on a horse that was correctly registered and taken permanent by the rules at the time they were registered/taken permanent. You couldn't make the height change retroactive. Rather, those horses that were correctly registered, following the rules in existance at the time they were registered, shouldn't be affected.

 

[Riverdance]

Actually this will not measure out horses in fact it will do the opposite. Most horses have the BASE OF THE WITHER LOWER then the last mane hairs. I think most horses that have measured out at 34.50 and 35.0 can perhaps measure in now.

Remember this is measuring at the base of the withers still not like the rest of the horse world. Not the highest point of the withers so in essence taller horses will now measure in at 34.00 with this new rule

This has nothing to do with how they measure overseas so really was not brought on for that reason.

JMO

Again, they can not measure at the withers like the rest of the horse world without loosing many horses and creating a real problem. At the base of the withers keeps it closer to the last mane hair for the most part.

It will go both ways. Some horses will get in that used to measure over, some horses will now measure over. What they are trying to eliminate is cheating. If you use the last mane hair, then people where dying back coat along with the mane and spraying it with hairspray, or sewing in mane hair or pushing on the back. These will not work anymore.

It was also mentioned that the Europeans showing in AMHA will have to follow our rules, that is measuring at the base of the withers. This was agreed upon by them prior to this meeting, or so they said at the meeting.

 

[nightflight]

Wait a moment... so do we still have the ability to protest up to two hours after a class, or does it still have to be done before the gate closes?

 

[Riverdance]

That is sad that we still can't measure like the rest of the horse world...

So, will they still be 34" and under? Or is that going to change to go along with the new way of measuring? I'm going to have to go out to see if I can find this "groove." Surely finding the highest point of the withers would be easier???? sigh...

If we change it to measure at the withers (which was proposed) then many horses that measure in today, would no longer measure in. Many horses have higher withers than their back. This could create a real problem with many of the horses out there measuring and throwing 33+" horses. I have a mare, for instance, at the last hair she is 33 1/4", at the withers, she is over 34". She is a AMHA World Top 10, if we did the withers, she would be out as would many others. sS, yes, we are still at 34", but the grove is in the same area as the mane. A last mane hair can be just about anywhere on a horse, the grove is always aat the base of the withers.

You couldn't pull papers on a horse that was correctly registered and taken permanent by the rules at the time they were registered/taken permanent. You couldn't make the height change retroactive. Rather, those horses that were correctly registered, following the rules in existance at the time they were registered, shouldn't be affected.

Papers will not be pulled, the horses that now may measure over will still keep their papers. They will be grandfatheres in.

 

[ThreeCFarm]

Riverdance, you misunderstood what I was referring to. I am talking about the reasoning why we supposedly can't go to the highest point of the withers. You keep saying a lot of horses would be over then, why can't those horses be grandfathered in, if the horses now that may measure over can be grandfathered in? It doesn't make sense.

 

[targetsmom]

I think you have to check back tomorrow on the protest rule while the Board figures out what they can do.

 

[RockRiverTiff]

Well I for one am happy. I am not sure about the new measuring rule, but I'm sure I'll figure it out. I would have preferred the top of the withers too, but I feel this is still more credible than the ridiculous old last mane hair rule.

As for closing the registry, those of you that had plans for hardshipping have five years to implement them. I for one do not feel that 160,000 horses is that limited of a gene pool. There are several rare breeds that have been around for centuries with a studbook that is a fraction of that. Nothing would make me happier than to be able to say that my Miniature horses are a breed. If AMHA is preparing to make that happen, then I am prepared to do what's necessary to assist them. We have finally chosen a direction for these animals, and I think that direction is FORWARD!

Time will tell.

 

[mininik]

If we change it to measure at the withers (which was proposed) then many horses that measure in today, would no longer measure in. Many horses have higher withers than their back. This could create a real problem with many of the horses out there measuring and throwing 33+" horses. I have a mare, for instance, at the last hair she is 33 1/4", at the withers, she is over 34". She is a AMHA World Top 10, if we did the withers, she would be out as would many others. sS, yes, we are still at 34", but the grove is in the same area as the mane. A last mane hair can be just about anywhere on a horse, the grove is always aat the base of the withers.

...

Papers will not be pulled, the horses that now may measure over will still keep their papers. They will be grandfatheres in.

So what would have been the issue with measuring correctly AT THE WITHERS?!!?!

 

[Riverdance]

Wait a moment... so do we still have the ability to protest up to two hours after a class, or does it still have to be done before the gate closes?

Unfortunatly I had a phone call and missed part of that one. I think at this time we still can, but not sure. Anyone know?

 

[nightflight]

Thank you. I was following along, but thought I may have missed something.

 

[Charlotte]

On the gene pool thing and everyone worrying about AMHA closing the gene pool.........back when DNA was being studied as something AMHA 'might' do in the future Frank was asked to visit with genetics laboratories regarding this subject as it related to miniature horses. He was told by the geneticists that miniature horses have the most diverse gene pool of any modern day horse breed.

I just keep wondering where all this concern about a small gene pool is coming from?

Charlotte

 

[wpsellwood]

I just keep wondering where all this concern about a small gene pool is coming from?

Me too!!! Go AMHA I think you are making headway!!

 

[Riverdance]

Riverdance, you misunderstood what I was referring to. I am talking about the reasoning why we supposedly can't go to the highest point of the withers. You keep saying a lot of horses would be over then, why can't those horses be grandfathered in, if the horses now that may measure over can be grandfathered in? It doesn't make sense.

Sorry for missunderstanding. They did talk about that at the meeting and felt that even thought they would be grandfathering these horses in, they woudl still be producing many horses that would no longer make it in as there can be a difference of and inch or two from last mane hair virse withers.

They did try the withers, but it was shot down. I really do not care which one, as long as we can eliminate some of the cheating. It was such a fiasco at the last World show with many horses with perminant papers saying they were 33" tall being shown in the 32 and under class. Kind of hard to beat them when they were so much taller than the true 32 and under horses. My stallion was 31 1/2' tall and many of the horses in his class made him look like he belonged in a smaller class.

 

[Feather]

The last subject today was to revise the protest rule that the board over turned in Oct. The 60 days prior publication notice became a sticky issue so the President ajourned the meeting for today & tomorrow will come prepared to address it with a reivision agreed to by the committee developed in October to fix it. The committe finaly agreed to a fix/change at this annual meeting.

He will find a way to legally get it( the special committee revision) implemented for 2008 Jan 1st tomorrow.

 

[Charlotte]

Yep Riveredance, that is what the special committee has been working on for months now! A way to implement the protest rule so that anyone so obviously cheating is going to get called on it!

I don't know what the committee got worked out, but I sure hope something gets passed that will go into effect in '08 so that we don't take a 28" stallion in the senior 28" and Under class and find he's WAY the smallest horse in the class! Been there, done that! And I for one am TIRED of it!

Charlotte

 

[Riverdance]

Just for fun...

http://bp3.blogger.com/_SGy6jIXdDDw/RxNE4f.../Els20Aug05.jpg

I wonder what this horse would measure at under the new rule?

Actually, the base of the withers is still up there, even though his back is not.