AMHA is CLosing Their Books!! As well as a new Height rule change!!

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I will AGAIN, say that my horses are also double registered and have done well in both registrys when I showed both. But I find that they do a little better with AMHA amd my taste leads more to the AMHA horses.
You've said this already in at least 3 of your posts in this thread. I just don't get it...to me, it makes NO sense. If your horses are all double reg'd, AMHA/AMHR how can they LOOK AMHA? How do you know they don't "look" AMHR?
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As for people liking/disliking registries, I can say I have shown VERY little, as I do not enjoy showing...I am far too nervous to do so. BUT when I was getting into minis and went to southern Minnesota to look at horses, there was one particular farm that was what I consider an "AMHA snob". I was so put off by his comments, that no matter how nice his horses were, I would not buy from him because of his sour grapes towards the "far inferior horses" of AMHR! I was NOT impressed! And, what is REALLY funny for me to see now, is that that this same person is now showing/handling horses in AMHR...guess as the saying goes, if you can't beat'em, join 'em!
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I should also add, that I like BOTH registries. I am not for or against either. I support both, and feel there is room for both, but I do feel there are hard feelings between some people because of the registries they support/favor.
 
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Was this an AMHA BOARD decision or something that was voted on by the membership attending the AMHA National meeting?
 
Was this an AMHA BOARD decision or something that was voted on by the membership attending the AMHA National meeting?

Voted on by those that attended the meeting. It could only pass if 2/3rds of those attending the meeting and voting voted yes. It took two votes and many discussions before it was passed. Many of the top breeders and trainers voted for it.
 
Somehow I knew this thread would take this turn. I am so tired of the comments like AMHA must be doing this just to spite AMHR or AMHR/AMHA is so much better and the people are friendlier and so on and so forth...

Some posts in this thread had my jaw dropping.... yeeeesh.

All the horses here are double-registered. We have had horses showing in both A & R....

I have concerns with sweeping statements like this...

There are many good people in amha but the real snobs stand out.
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I can list Snobs in AMHR as well. They are not exclusive to any registry - and yet this same schtick is prevalent whenever a thread turns to AMHA vs. AMHR. You know some of the usual litany - all A shows are unfriendly, not for amateurs, not for families, not for youth, comprised of snobs... when that is simply not the case.

I too wish those naysayers on BOTH sides would still their wagging tongues and work as hard FOR EACH ASSOCIATION as they are working to tear them both down.
AMEN to that... it has gotten increasingly tiresome....

As I have said over and over, it sure would be nice if the competitiveness and negativeness would go away. If you had read through all of these posts you would have seen posts like AMHA was closing their books to spite AMHR. Or "what are AMHA people afraid that the AMHR horses will beat them" This is all unnessessary!
Agreed, It is unecessary - and spiteful. And someone needs to explain to me how such comments even make sense... when many of those horses are double-registered. Or does that taint the AMHA horses in the eyes of the AMHR "purists/snobs"? You see how silly this all sounds? It goes both ways - this faux elitist nonsense... as was noted here...

AMHA is not worried about AMHR horses beating them. If they are a good horse, great, let them win. My horses are double registered. Does that mean if I win in AMHR, my horse is considered a AMHA horse that beat the AMHR horse, or if I win in AMHA, is it then considered a AMHR horse that beat a AMHA horse,. Come on!!
The notion of AMHA being afraid that the AMHR horses will beat them is ridiculous. We have had the same horses do well - Championships etc. in AMHA - and then do equally as well in AMHR Under... Championships again. HORRORS! :DOH!

One of the reasons why I stopped going to AMHR shows was all of the competative negativeness regarding AMHA and their horses. I got tired of hearing it over and over again. At the AMHA shows, I never hear this negativeness from AMHA members. Both clubs will only get along better when each club quits saying negative things or competative things against the other.
Exactly.... and yet we hear the negative sniping here on this forum at every opportunity... like this thread! Look what it turned into! Not even a discussion about the topic so much as yet another chance for a pile on...

I fail to see why the constant sniping even needs to happen. One thing I disliked about AMHR was the laughable registration papers - the absolute worst out of any registration process I have ever had to deal with - with any breed... with that dinky little useless diagram to show markings on. FINALLY someone there woke up to that fact - and now pictures are required... a step in the right direction. But I did not go around sniping about it....

I had a rude experience with a couple of very snobby handlers at a couple of AMHR shows in the area - but did that make me trash AMHR at every chance? No. Because I realized that those who are loud-mouthed know-it-alls at any show are in the minority - and are not to be seen as representative of any group. Nor is any one show to be seen as an example of what all similar shows are like. AMHA. AMHR. Whatever.

And on and on it goes...

*zips up flame suit and jumps off soapbox*
 
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I haven't read all the posts, so don't know if someone has already thought of this or not...to me in order for the AMHA to be considered a breed...I feel you should be able to breed a 32" stallion to a 32" mare and know without a shadow of a doubt you will get a 32" & under foal when mature... Just my thoughts. And with today's gene pool this isn't going to happen...

Sharron

And it will never happen. :DOH! We're talking about simple genetics here. When you breed one 32" horse to another 32" horse, you will have a 50% possibility of getting a foal who will mature at approximately 32". You will also have a 25% chance of producing a foal who will mature SMALLER than 32" AND a 25% chance of producing a foal who will mature TALLER than 32". This would apply to ANY breed...regardless of the "gene pool".
 
I would like to know this also? If it is going to affect that many horses, shouldn't the average person have a say in this?? I have horses that I would probably like to hardship in 6 years, heck maybe 10 yrs out and is it fair to me as a person that has been a member of AMHA for 14 yrs to be denied? Not anyone can attend these meetings. Most of us are working people. I honestly think issues of this magnitude should be a whole registery vote. If you choose not to vote then you can't complain.

As mentioned many times, it would be impossible to consider them a breed. Too many issues. It is a height registery. And to deny any horse that is 34 or under and can add alot to the breed would be silly.
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I have my thoughts on both registeries but at this point of my life I like one better than the other. But we register both A and R. And myself I just bred for a beautiful horse
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Did they mention if they were going to mail out diagrams to members so they can learn the new measurement process??? I am not trying to be sarcastic I truely dont know the dip they are talking about..
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. Can anyone that knows draw one and post it her for the rest of us....
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Like many others that have read this, I am sure alot of you were out at your barns during your PM feedings and were maticulously going over your horses' withers.

Unless I am a complete idiot when it comes to this, which I hope I am not (if I can't tell where a horses withers are after being around them since I could walk, I must having my own set of issues going on) I have seemed to notice that the base of the withers was at or below the last hair on their mane (out of 8 horses, only one's mane was at the base of the withers, the others manes were right above the base of the withers.

My concern is will the AMHR and the AMHA use uniform measuring points on a miniature?
 
I have started to post and wiped it out so many times as who can respond to some this except

[SIZE=24pt]Tagalong[/SIZE]
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way to go I agree 100 percent
 
Carolyn you do make a good point about the fact that the two miniature registries will now be using different measuring systems. That is a thought that I did not have cross my mind up to now.

I do believe that it is not quite right that decisions of this magnitude are voted on by a very few of our members. It being the season that it is, many of our breeders simply cannot get away, and as mentioned before others cannot afford to travel away due to a shortage of money and/or vacation days. It is a concern. The only way to address it is to get a by-law change in to allow absentee voting, and there are some people, including myself, that are working on that. I had hoped to get the rule change submitted in time for this meeting, but life has interfered for me since Christmas time and I have not been able to sit down and put the thought in that it requires. Other people are also working on it. One of our first major steps taken in this direction is to webcast the meeting, this is HUGE! I hope a lot of people are able to tune in tomorrow to view it. There are other things that can be done to facilitate that change, which probably most people would feel is for the good.

It is a rule change that brought in this registry direction, and it is a rule change that can repeal it. So if you feel very strongly about an issue, please do what you can to be an active participant in the process. This is OUR registry. It is not the BOD that makes arbitrary decisions. It is not "the registry." When people say, well I hope the AMHA thought about this aspect or that aspect of making that rule change, the AMHA is US!!! It is the people who get involved. That rule change was instituted by a margin of A SINGLE VOTE. It was the prevailing desire of the members who cared enough and were able to attend. So right or wrong, there you go. We are all equal opportunity players in the game.

Although the vote did not go in the direction I wanted it to, for many reasons, I still was fascinated by the process. I believe that it was won fair and square by the proponents of the rule change. I went to the meeting in person last year, and I watched every minute of it today online. I highly recommend that everyone who is passionate about the breed do all that you can to be well-informed about the registry. I didn't really get involved at all for the first several years of owning miniatures, but then realized what information was available to us and I took advantage of learning all I could about it. It is pretty easy to get involved, if you are interested.

In 2008 I hope to learn more about the AMHR registry, because it is where I have been doing most of my showing, and where I will be showing in the forseeable future. This is because I enjoy my "over" division performance horses. I love performance! There are a lot of performance opportunities in the AMHA registry also, and as soon as I can get my Esprit hardshipped in, you can bet that we will be there showing too. Yes, he will be eligible in 2010, so we will be under the deadline on that one. And I bet there will be a lot of people who will like him, in both registries. I believe in him enough to pay the big bucks to get him double-registered. I wouldn't do that with a horse that wasn't exceptional.

Anyway, I guess the point of my long and rambling post is, if you don't like the direction, get involved! It is not nearly as scary or intimidating as you might think.
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Like many others that have read this, I am sure alot of you were out at your barns during your PM feedings and were maticulously going over your horses' withers.

Unless I am a complete idiot when it comes to this, which I hope I am not (if I can't tell where a horses withers are after being around them since I could walk, I must having my own set of issues going on) I have seemed to notice that the base of the withers was at or below the last hair on their mane (out of 8 horses, only one's mane was at the base of the withers, the others manes were right above the base of the withers.

My concern is will the AMHR and the AMHA use uniform measuring points on a miniature?

The dip in the withers is often past the last mane hair, but not always. When putting your hand on your horses neck where it attaches to the back, you can feel where the neck and back connect. Where the withers ends, kind of like a drop off. That is where the horse would be measured at the drop off or the end of the withers. When you know what to look for, it takes seconds to find.
 
Im sad that we are going to miss alot of "backyard" horses that couldpossibly make huge marks on the miniature breed. Once the books close .. It all the same horses nothing new .. kind of worries me .. Ill get my colt in now before the books close .. just know if I couldnt get him in Id be heartbroken he was highpoint wenaling in Ontario reserve grand strallion against seniors and he isn't in a registery right now because his dam's dam passed away before being registered .. So he beat alot alot of AMHR/AMHA and I guesse in the future no one will get thsoe special guys in
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Like many others that have read this, I am sure alot of you were out at your barns during your PM feedings and were maticulously going over your horses' withers.
I did do some quick measuring and found that a couple 35 inch horses could now be 34.00. A few more 34.50 horses easily came in under 34.00 - varying from 33.25 to 33.50 and a couple were the exact same.

Looks like one way or another AMHA will have "B" size horses in the registry now.
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I could not hear or missed in the meetings will this be retroactive allowing those who have had papers pulled back in with proper and new re measurement?
 
Okay I really could care less about the AMHA/AMHR arguing BUT...

Here is a horse skeleton. I am currently studying horse and animal anatomy because it's my current art class.

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Now, the "withers" are those tall dorsal vertebrae that stick way up, the tallest part is where most horses are measured. You can feel most of those dorsal vertebrae... Between WHICH one of those vertebrae are the AMHA horses to be measured between? As you can see, there is no distinct bones that make a divot.

Andrea
 
Okay I really could care less about the AMHA/AMHR arguing BUT...

Here is a horse skeleton. I am currently studying horse and animal anatomy because it's my current art class.

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Now, the "withers" are those tall dorsal vertebrae that stick way up, the tallest part is where most horses are measured. You can feel most of those dorsal vertebrae... Between WHICH one of those vertebrae are the AMHA horses to be measured between? As you can see, there is no distinct bones that make a divot.

Andrea


You are not looking for a divit, but the end of the withers. The lowest bone before you get to the back. There is a bit of a drop on evey horse. What is great about this is that you can not cheat by pushing a bone down like you can the back.

Yes, with some horses, it will allow some taller horses in. Some horses mane stops at the top of the withers some farther down the back. So, some horses will no longer measure in, some that did not meaure in before, will now measure in.

BUT, horses that are 35 or taller, will no longer measure in by pushing the back down or adding mane hairs or dying the back hairs to match the mane. Or the worst, cutting the poor horses hoofs almost off to try and make them measure in.
 
Like many others here, at feeding time tonight, I felt for withers! Hummm, I must be a simpleton too! I couldn't find it on all my fat little broodmares! I could see where you'd have a better chance to find it on a skinny horse. But, most of us have fat little girls with enough back fat to keep a buffalo warm! So, are the 'show horses' going to be starved down to rails so they can find the divot to measure? A horse in prime show shape would have less back fat than our breeding stock, but, the SHOULD have some! I'd hate to start seeing undernurished horses being trotted out as show horses!

Viki
 
Ok so what i'm understanding is that the horse is being measured in the "middle" of the back
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basically the lowest spot of the back where the withers and the back meet (which is typically the lowest part of the back)... funny but i remember people joking that they might as well measure in the very middle of the back.. and i do NOT agree with the fact that the horse cannot be pushed down..that is infact easier to get the horse to drop down than the withers/last hair area...

Looks to me like they are definatly trying to get horses even SMALLER than they did by using the last hair of the mane plus more ways to get the horse in because they can most DEFINATLY sink down in that area.... this is a big laughing joke if where i'm understanding they are going to be measuring is where they are going to be measuring for certain!!

edited to add that this is a problem in BOTH registeries with the queer measuring.. just even more queer measuring in the middle of the back.
 
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Actually my horse has very flat withers so he would measure the same no matter how you measured him. even if you measure at the divot in the back [sorry withers] there will still be horses that will duck and get in. No matter how you measure someone will find a way around it. By the way AMHR recognizes and lets AMHA horses in their registry will AMHA now let AMHR horses in when the hardship is closed? That is an interesting question to think about seeing as some people think the R is bashing the A, but AMHR recognises AMHA horses but AMHA does not recognise AMHR horses.
 
By the way AMHR recognizes and lets AMHA horses in their registry will AMHA now let AMHR horses in when the hardship is closed? That is an interesting question to think about seeing as some people think the R is bashing the A, but AMHR recognises AMHA horses but AMHA does not recognise AMHR horses.
GOOD POINT! AND, also, will they (AMHR) go with the measurement as provided on the AMHA papers, as now, there may be a discrepency with the way that AMHR measures vs the way that AMHA measures.

One more question...this new method of AMHA measuring...is this effective immediately?
 
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I understand the measuring will take effect January 1 2009
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I need to go make some more popcorn guys...this thread is getting interesting!
 

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