Hello, Sorry I just need to put my 2 cents in. The Miniature Horses are a unique breed and styles of their own. I agree the name is not correct. Years ago we (Susan Lowry and Teri Collins) tried to put a discription together for this style of horse. We could see the righting on the wall that Country Pleasure would not have room for the "Hunter style horses" in a few years. My heart has always been with the style, candence, balance, and elegance of the hunter movers. In fact all of my big horses to this day are all hunter movers and drivers. We were told to come up with a name that was better suited to the miniature horse and resubmit. Hence here we are again. Lets not let this die due to an improper title, that will come in due time. Stock style driving Appaloosa, Paint and Quarter Horses are not what we wish to simulate, heads thrown away no impulsion at the collected trot. This is at the "World Level" in those breeds. Been there done that. Now look at a Marketing Point of View. This is a completely unique TYPE of horse. This is a horse TYPE that is not new to our breed just left out. Left out means no $$$$ flowing into the Miniature horse industry. These horses are bred and selected for there range of motion, not just an accident on the ground. So the breeders and owners have looked for other avenues to showcase their hard work. Hence the growth in other organizations such as ADS one of the fastest growing equine sports were the Miniature horse has a level playing field. This is a style of horse that can be cultivated to a higher level just as our Single and Country Pleasure horses have. We just need a place in this industry for them. Have ideas for a better suited name? Email them to the committee they have looked at a whole list, these are a few Hunter Pleasure, Classic Country, Pleasure Driving, Western Pleasure Driving, Stock Style Driving. Just to name a few. They have put a lot of time into this, so do not put it down on just a name. Lets help the total industry out, this is a great way to move forward. Mini Thanks Teri
AMHA Carriage Class Proposal
- Thread starter Lost Spoke Ranch
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MinimotionW-S
Active Member
Initially all the possible classes will not have to be added to local shows. There are many classes at the World and Championship Shows that are not offered at our Local Shows already. The idea that this class will pull some exhibitors out of Country should be considered as well;less class splits. We had a very successful 4-day show here back east in April with a 2-day AMHR Show followed by a 2-day Amha Show. The Western Country Pleasure Class was "very" well attended. We also had a Stakes class that paid out and had quite a few entries espacially when you consider we don"t have as many driving entries here in the East as you folks do in the West. In our area the Western Country and Country classes are more attended than the Single Pleasure classes. Most of the "new" people in our shows do Performance. This will be a place for them to show "pretty" performance horses as well. We all know horses that just will NOT allow their heads to be checked up. In our area the offering of another class such as this one(whatever the name) would be, and has proven to be well attended.
Thanks, Darlene Bridges ( Performance Committee Co Chair)
Thanks, Darlene Bridges ( Performance Committee Co Chair)
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There is no doubt i think in most peoples head that a division lower than Country pleasure needs to be added to make the average moving horse even relatively competitive. I think the big debate is making it class that benefits those horses and doesnt' make it into something it was never intended to be (ie. peanut rolling western horses or big action ect ect ect). As i said before how the name it could play a HUGE roll in what is actually presented in these classes even if it wasn't what it was intended to be.
I"m not at all against another class to include the MAJORITY of horses not the minority of big moving Country pleasure horses that are winning now. Just need to proceed with much thought and foresight.
I"m not at all against another class to include the MAJORITY of horses not the minority of big moving Country pleasure horses that are winning now. Just need to proceed with much thought and foresight.
REO
Well-Known Member
Sunday Pleasure Driving
What picture does that name conjure in your mind?
Just an idea that came to me.
What picture does that name conjure in your mind?
Bump
Also don't forget the AMHA committee impact statements are online. You can get them from a link from the AMHA main page or directly from http://www.amha.org/index.asp?KeyName=210
Tommy
Also don't forget the AMHA committee impact statements are online. You can get them from a link from the AMHA main page or directly from http://www.amha.org/index.asp?KeyName=210
Tommy
maryann
Well-Known Member
I am all for the class. I have watched the AMHR Western Country Pleasure Driving classes.
There are many horses that compete in that class that would have been in the Country
Pleasure drivng classes of 3-4 years ago but the standards have been raised as to the horses
movement and they are no longer competitive in those classes, especially at the National level.
However they are great movers with good extension. As Darlene stated above we offered this class
at our clubs last show and there were many entries. This is a competitive class and the horses nose
is not dragging on the ground. IN fact with the over check or side check that is required you
will see many of them are loose, but the horses head is still at a natural and easy going pulling level.
The only thing that bothers me about the class is the name. Most of the show s I attend are
combined AMHA and AMHR. Whether either registry wants to admit it they are becoming closer
to needing each other as far as shows go due to increased gas prices, which is affecting the economy in every way. If I am thinking about maybe being able to afford going to Nationals and World I am looking at
a show that offers me the oppertunity to qualify for both.
Like it or not AMHR was the first registry to come up with this class and they named it Country Western Pleasure. I am not sure I even like that name but when I see it on the class list I know what is expected of my horse in that class.
The class you describe for AMHA is compariable to that class , just as your country Pleasure and your Single Pleasure compares to theirs. Why confuse things by making up a new name to describe the same class. If I see Carriage driving on the show class list I will not even consider it because to me it would require me to do extra research just to fill out my show entries, to see if my horse would qualify for that class. Its just a name. This us against them mentality is hurting both registries. Most of us who show are "us and them" ! So AMHR came up with it first , So what? Who cares who did what first? We like the class. Lets do it. Just call it the same thing. Maryann
There are many horses that compete in that class that would have been in the Country
Pleasure drivng classes of 3-4 years ago but the standards have been raised as to the horses
movement and they are no longer competitive in those classes, especially at the National level.
However they are great movers with good extension. As Darlene stated above we offered this class
at our clubs last show and there were many entries. This is a competitive class and the horses nose
is not dragging on the ground. IN fact with the over check or side check that is required you
will see many of them are loose, but the horses head is still at a natural and easy going pulling level.
The only thing that bothers me about the class is the name. Most of the show s I attend are
combined AMHA and AMHR. Whether either registry wants to admit it they are becoming closer
to needing each other as far as shows go due to increased gas prices, which is affecting the economy in every way. If I am thinking about maybe being able to afford going to Nationals and World I am looking at
a show that offers me the oppertunity to qualify for both.
Like it or not AMHR was the first registry to come up with this class and they named it Country Western Pleasure. I am not sure I even like that name but when I see it on the class list I know what is expected of my horse in that class.
The class you describe for AMHA is compariable to that class , just as your country Pleasure and your Single Pleasure compares to theirs. Why confuse things by making up a new name to describe the same class. If I see Carriage driving on the show class list I will not even consider it because to me it would require me to do extra research just to fill out my show entries, to see if my horse would qualify for that class. Its just a name. This us against them mentality is hurting both registries. Most of us who show are "us and them" ! So AMHR came up with it first , So what? Who cares who did what first? We like the class. Lets do it. Just call it the same thing. Maryann
justagirl
Well-Known Member
DITTO , very well put MA
maryann
Well-Known Member
I forgot to add in my previous post.
Thanks so much to the performance
committee for asking the forum members opinion. They seem to be letting
as many people know as possible about this class through the clubs and the
forum. We appreciate your caring what we think.
Maryann
Thanks so much to the performance
committee for asking the forum members opinion. They seem to be letting
as many people know as possible about this class through the clubs and the
forum. We appreciate your caring what we think.
horses mouth
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Hello Everyone!
Gary Barnes here..........
First let me tell you I am not a forum person, but after spending the last hour or so reading all of the replies here it appears that everyone plays nice so I'm going to stick my neck out and my toe in the water!
First, the name game.
As mentioned by Teri Collins we have never been able to agree on a name. In my run it up the flagploe and see who salutes stage (by the way that was a year before the AMHR adopted their Western Country pleasure class) I tried "Stock Driving" in order to paint a different picture than "Western" in our judges minds. Well that painted a similar picture to some judges and driving affecionados so I then started describing it as "Hunter Pleasure". Of course every year we had new members on the committee and every year I had to tweak their interest and the name along with trying to rewrite a rule that fit our breed and our rule book. I also embarked on a campaign to try to clarify our driving rules for the betterment of judging our classes and also to try to make them understandable to the outsider who might want to try our breed. I could keep explaining how this grew larger and harder as time went on, but I think you get the picture. By the way Nancy Idom (spelling?) who is both a Morgan judge and an AMHA judge "coined" this name for our class (she is also supplying the drawing). Then Mike McCabe and Diane Morgan Stasiak convinced us in committee to use this name for the new division. It was actually submitted for the June meeting, timely, as "Hunter Pleasure". The problem we have here is Show Rules had a tele-conference (unbeknownst to the Performance Committee) and shot it down without our input or explanation. Gotta love the politics! We have asked it to be resubmitted for PUBLIC discussion again at the june meeting. PLEASE ATTEND
Second, ADS...............
I talked with AL and his ADS trainer, read some literature, watched AL add a sidecheck to his ADS horse and harness and compete in Driving Obstacle. This made me think that those that liked ADS might want to try our upcoming "Reinsmanship" class along with "Driving Obstacle" and have FUN in our new class that was being proposed as "Carriage". I have seen the writing here and even worse the emails and all I can do is aplogize for painting that picture!
Third, number of classes.
Yes it is a whole division and this applies differntly to the World show and the Local shows.
Local shows. Please understand that just because we add a class (even when it is a "pointed" class) it is not mandatory on the local level. Show Rule GR-025 C. addresses what classes are mandatory for show approval and MOST driving classes are not mandatory. We feel that input from your members will tell you what classes to add for this new division, if any, and this will probably be different in geographical terms. At least at first. Some clubs will embrace the option of adding a large number of what I feel are "all around" horses. Remember that your halter as well as upper end driving horses don't enter as many classes as this type of horse. These horses could feasably be your 10 class horses. Add 10 of them to your show and your talking, what 100 entries at 40 bucks = $4000.00. Probably a lot more, think about it!
World Show.
The Stakes sunsets 2009. This clears the way for 4 classes. If some horses move down into this division from Country and we lose say 3 splits we gain 6 classes (splits run 3 times). That's 10 of the 13 for a whole division and Laura Mullins is helping us work on more time. I believe we also added a day for 2008 and some of these classes are Youth and Amateur/ AOTE. Seems do-able to me!
Vendors.
Not really what Al asked but a sure way to gauge AMHA's solvency in the market (ie; sinking or swimming) is to look around or ask around. Where are the vendors? If we were growing or even stagnate they would be making money by coming to our shows and they have been disappearing for years!
Fourth
The answer is in the above answers.
Fifth
It appears that the members here have resoundingly said they would show in it and the phone calls and email testimonials support it. Don't forget the "members" of AMHA thought Country Pleasure would never take off a few years back...........
I urge anyone that is truly concerned, positive or negative, to contact me at [email protected] or anyone of our committee listed on the AMHA website). I also would like to beat my drum again and say PLEASE contact your Director and Kristy Mackey: [email protected] But put it in writing so it wont get forgotten. Or better yet come to the June Meeting and see how the process happens. Al has reiterated the concerns of Show Rules (I was kicked off because I didn't attend the annual meeting after Lisa's accident) and Show Rules voted this down without asking these questions. Now is your chance to make a difference.
Thanks for your time and your support!
I am available email me if you want to talk.
Gary Barnes
AMHA Performance Committee
Co-Chair
[email protected]
www.minidrivinghorse.com
Gary Barnes here..........
First let me tell you I am not a forum person, but after spending the last hour or so reading all of the replies here it appears that everyone plays nice so I'm going to stick my neck out and my toe in the water!
Al has brought up very good points here:
First, the name game.
As mentioned by Teri Collins we have never been able to agree on a name. In my run it up the flagploe and see who salutes stage (by the way that was a year before the AMHR adopted their Western Country pleasure class) I tried "Stock Driving" in order to paint a different picture than "Western" in our judges minds. Well that painted a similar picture to some judges and driving affecionados so I then started describing it as "Hunter Pleasure". Of course every year we had new members on the committee and every year I had to tweak their interest and the name along with trying to rewrite a rule that fit our breed and our rule book. I also embarked on a campaign to try to clarify our driving rules for the betterment of judging our classes and also to try to make them understandable to the outsider who might want to try our breed. I could keep explaining how this grew larger and harder as time went on, but I think you get the picture. By the way Nancy Idom (spelling?) who is both a Morgan judge and an AMHA judge "coined" this name for our class (she is also supplying the drawing). Then Mike McCabe and Diane Morgan Stasiak convinced us in committee to use this name for the new division. It was actually submitted for the June meeting, timely, as "Hunter Pleasure". The problem we have here is Show Rules had a tele-conference (unbeknownst to the Performance Committee) and shot it down without our input or explanation. Gotta love the politics! We have asked it to be resubmitted for PUBLIC discussion again at the june meeting. PLEASE ATTEND
Second, ADS...............
I talked with AL and his ADS trainer, read some literature, watched AL add a sidecheck to his ADS horse and harness and compete in Driving Obstacle. This made me think that those that liked ADS might want to try our upcoming "Reinsmanship" class along with "Driving Obstacle" and have FUN in our new class that was being proposed as "Carriage". I have seen the writing here and even worse the emails and all I can do is aplogize for painting that picture!
Third, number of classes.
Yes it is a whole division and this applies differntly to the World show and the Local shows.
Local shows. Please understand that just because we add a class (even when it is a "pointed" class) it is not mandatory on the local level. Show Rule GR-025 C. addresses what classes are mandatory for show approval and MOST driving classes are not mandatory. We feel that input from your members will tell you what classes to add for this new division, if any, and this will probably be different in geographical terms. At least at first. Some clubs will embrace the option of adding a large number of what I feel are "all around" horses. Remember that your halter as well as upper end driving horses don't enter as many classes as this type of horse. These horses could feasably be your 10 class horses. Add 10 of them to your show and your talking, what 100 entries at 40 bucks = $4000.00. Probably a lot more, think about it!
World Show.
The Stakes sunsets 2009. This clears the way for 4 classes. If some horses move down into this division from Country and we lose say 3 splits we gain 6 classes (splits run 3 times). That's 10 of the 13 for a whole division and Laura Mullins is helping us work on more time. I believe we also added a day for 2008 and some of these classes are Youth and Amateur/ AOTE. Seems do-able to me!
Vendors.
Not really what Al asked but a sure way to gauge AMHA's solvency in the market (ie; sinking or swimming) is to look around or ask around. Where are the vendors? If we were growing or even stagnate they would be making money by coming to our shows and they have been disappearing for years!
Fourth
The answer is in the above answers.
Fifth
It appears that the members here have resoundingly said they would show in it and the phone calls and email testimonials support it. Don't forget the "members" of AMHA thought Country Pleasure would never take off a few years back...........
I urge anyone that is truly concerned, positive or negative, to contact me at [email protected] or anyone of our committee listed on the AMHA website). I also would like to beat my drum again and say PLEASE contact your Director and Kristy Mackey: [email protected] But put it in writing so it wont get forgotten. Or better yet come to the June Meeting and see how the process happens. Al has reiterated the concerns of Show Rules (I was kicked off because I didn't attend the annual meeting after Lisa's accident) and Show Rules voted this down without asking these questions. Now is your chance to make a difference.
Thanks for your time and your support!
I am available email me if you want to talk.
Gary Barnes
AMHA Performance Committee
Co-Chair
[email protected]
www.minidrivinghorse.com
susanne
dB
Gary,
Thank you for taking the time (and leap of faith) to write this response.
While I own AMHR/ASPC horses only and have no vote or say in AMHA, I truly appreciate the clarification of these issues.
Thank you for taking the time (and leap of faith) to write this response.
While I own AMHR/ASPC horses only and have no vote or say in AMHA, I truly appreciate the clarification of these issues.
hobbyhorse23
Well-Known Member
You are exactly right; the kind of people who enjoy ADS competition are the same ones who LOVE Driving Obstacle, Reinsmanship, Precision Driving, Disciplined Rail Driving and any similar sort of class.horses mouth said:
I, like Susanne, thank you for putting yourself out there to present this idea to us. I'm not a member of AMHA for a variety of reasons (most of them financial) so can't vote but if enough classes like you're intending are implemented that just might change.
Leia
Thanks Gary,
As I stated, the Performance Committee has done a great deal of work on this proposal and they should be commended for their effort. There are lots of sound ideas here that should be presented.
BTW, I used a CDE harness complete with breeching and false Martingale for the Driving Obstacle class. I simply added a loose string side check. I did win the class.
As I stated, the Performance Committee has done a great deal of work on this proposal and they should be commended for their effort. There are lots of sound ideas here that should be presented.
BTW, I used a CDE harness complete with breeching and false Martingale for the Driving Obstacle class. I simply added a loose string side check. I did win the class.
horses mouth
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Thank you too AL !Thanks Gary,
As I stated, the Performance Committee has done a great deal of work on this proposal and they should be commended for their effort. There are lots of sound ideas here that should be presented.
BTW, I used a CDE harness complete with breeching and false Martingale for the Driving Obstacle class. I simply added a loose string side check. I did win the class.
I'm sure as a member of Show Rules you will make sure that sufficient time is given to our committee and all of the concerned members at the Show Rules meeting in June.
I spoke with a BOD member this weekend and he feels that the BOD should give this consideration.
Once again I urge EVERYONE (even interested non-members) to contact our Directors and explain your interest and the need for this to happen.
Thanks
Gary Barnes
RockRiverTiff
Well-Known Member
I've wanted to show in driving again for a long time but never felt like there was a good venue for the style of minis we breed. This sounds spot on (though I also prefer a "Hunter" designation in the name). We wrote to our directors!
MinisOutWest
Well-Known Member
posting this here too-
WESTERN DRIVING
(a) A pleasure driving horse should carry himself in a natural
balanced position with a relaxed head and neck. His poll should be
level with, or slightly above the level of the withers.
(b) Maximum credit should be given to a horse that moves
straight, with free movement, manners and a bright expression.
© The horse shall be severely penalized if he carries his head
behind the vertical, is overflexed, excessively nosed out, the poll is
below the withers or exhibits lack of control by exhibitor.
(d) This class will be judged 80 percent on the horse’s performance
and suitability for assuring a pleasurable drive, with a maximum
of 20 percent on condition and conformation.
(e) Horses must be shown with natural hoofs. No extended hoofs or
shoes allowed.
(f) Horses shall enter the ring in the same direction. Each horse
shall then be exhibited at the walk, western gait and extended gateroad gait in both
directions of the show ring. The recommended class procedure is
walk, western gait, extended gateroad gait, and walk. Consistently showing
too far off the rail shall be penalized according to severity. At the direction
of the ring steward, such change of direction shall be accomplished
by the horses crossing the show ring on the diagonal while
walking only.
(g) Each horse shall also be required to back easily and straight
and stand quietly.
(h) No exhibitor shall drive a horse while standing, kneeling or
using a seat extension in the cart at any time. An exhibitor may
momentarily rise if circumstances warrant. No horse shall be unbridled
or unattended while hooked to a cart. Excessive noisemaking
by exhibitors shall be penalized according to severity.
WESTERN DRIVING
(a) A pleasure driving horse should carry himself in a natural
balanced position with a relaxed head and neck. His poll should be
level with, or slightly above the level of the withers.
(b) Maximum credit should be given to a horse that moves
straight, with free movement, manners and a bright expression.
© The horse shall be severely penalized if he carries his head
behind the vertical, is overflexed, excessively nosed out, the poll is
below the withers or exhibits lack of control by exhibitor.
(d) This class will be judged 80 percent on the horse’s performance
and suitability for assuring a pleasurable drive, with a maximum
of 20 percent on condition and conformation.
(e) Horses must be shown with natural hoofs. No extended hoofs or
shoes allowed.
(f) Horses shall enter the ring in the same direction. Each horse
shall then be exhibited at the walk, western gait and extended gate
directions of the show ring. The recommended class procedure is
walk, western gait, extended gate
too far off the rail shall be penalized according to severity. At the direction
of the ring steward, such change of direction shall be accomplished
by the horses crossing the show ring on the diagonal while
walking only.
(g) Each horse shall also be required to back easily and straight
and stand quietly.
(h) No exhibitor shall drive a horse while standing, kneeling or
using a seat extension in the cart at any time. An exhibitor may
momentarily rise if circumstances warrant. No horse shall be unbridled
or unattended while hooked to a cart. Excessive noisemaking
by exhibitors shall be penalized according to severity.
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horses mouth
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bump
hobbyhorse23
Well-Known Member
Angela, what breed is that from?
Leia
Leia
horses mouth
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BTT
MinisOutWest
Well-Known Member
Suprisingly, It is bits and pieces from Quarter Horses, Paints, Pintos and Buckskin. It kinda gives a picture, but could be more specific with a little work. Thought I would get more response from it, but nothing from Al or Gary, I was surprised. I am 100% into the Western style driving coming from the QH show world. So for me to drive my minis this way is natural for me. I stepped into the AMHR and AMHA show ring since day one wearing western show outfits and my hat, a lot of people have laughed or chuckled behind my back, but I do not care. That is what I am and I like it a lot. Both of my horses move more naturally to perform in this class and that is what I do. My over gelding was considered a REJECT in the mini world of driving. I loved the way he moved (level with his poll and huge flat kneed strides) and practiced/drove him like a QH. Then took him to Pinto World last year and won both the Amateur and Open Driving classes. Saturday, I just went to an A show and drove my under gelding like a QH and won all 4 of my driving classes. So the A judges are accepting this style over the 'Country Pleasure' tucked, high headed look. People on the rail were standing up and watching me, complementing me how nice my horse looked. I was very happy to see the A people noticed. I think it is time for this type of class to be introduced into AMHA, there are more minis out there that can naturally enter into this class and have a chance to win in Driving, instead of an un-natural way they cannot poise because of their build. Please understand, I am not against any way of driving, but horses are bred/ built for certain styles of driving and we do not have the classes yet to fulfill those styles, but I feel they are making great strides to get there.
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