A question for those ready to hang this "trainer"

[Cathy_H]

asked in the AMHA office about protesting because that is what their rules say you are entitled to do. They said many people had

asked about protesting, but had decided against doing so because of

repercussions. Now I know what they meant.

Thanks for verifying something some of us knew was happening. How immature & greedy on everyones part that does this.

I still fault AMHA for allowing this (these measuring disputes) to happen. So now it is LEFT up to to AMHA to make it known that measuring will from now on be more accurate so everyone be prepared...... If necessary let two people measure & split the difference... Everyone needs to be on the same page - Integrity at every level before everything starts falling apart like falling dominoes.................................................. To the owner of the horse I can only imagine how so disappointing this was for you. Thank you for telling your story & for standing up for what you knew was right. We can only hope that your courage will be contagious. Hopefully it will shame those that need to win at all costs in to having their horses placed in the correct class to begin with & stop the backstabbing selfish games.................. This incident & other happenings in the past tell me that the trainers & farms with money are running the show..................... One of my favorite sayings ----- " If money comes before friendship, what will you have left if you go bankrupt"?

 

[Kim]

again i am not flaming the person who filed the complaint my question is it is clear in there own words they felt 3 horses were OVERSIZE and are SURE OF IT so then why protest only one? if going to do the right thing and make it a fair playing ground why not have done all 3? why wait till the show is over and say the 2 other wons who i assume did well were oversize as welljust wondering and more thoughts on the issue

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Below is the paragraph from the owner's email that addresses these questions--the reasoning makes pretty good sense to me. I applaud the owners for having the courage and integrity to do this, and it is too bad that they have suffered such serious repercussions for trying to ensure that the rules are followed.

However, we did look at who the three horses were. One we didn'thave any information on, but an individual who knew the horse said

he would easily measure in. With no further information on him we let

that one go. The second horse had been showing in the taller class all

year, winning many grands, however the owner told me he was only 1/2"

over. Most people can trim hooves, etc. to take care of that.

So we let that horse go which was a mistake since his permanent papers

show a height of 29 1/2" on record at AMHA.

The third horse had not only been showing all year in the taller class,

but

had won a championship at one of the Regional Shows. It was listed

in the MHW current issue. The facts were right there. So we did

protest and paid our $50.

 

[Linda K]

You know, I dont know alot about horses, BUT.....................

I am going to give MY OPINION on this........

First of all, if you have a horse that is right there, maybe a little over where they have been measuring in at and showing at, and you can trim their feet to keep them there. GREAT. no rules broke.

But, if you have a horse that has been showing in the taller classes all year and then you want to try and get them in a smaller class come nationals, for WHATEVER REASON, its just wrong. Why would you even want to do that. For a RIBBON ????????????

You have to live with decisions you make, and knowing how people might feel about you , as person. It would bother me , personally. I do not show. But my daughter Erica does, and she has had to move horses out and into different classes. Everyone works very hard to get to the point of going to nationals, including the "little guys". Everyone deserves a fair shake. Trainers too. Everyone , in every position, needs to do things on the up and up!

I know trainers, who have said at shows , "there picking who is at the lead",

WHY???????

Everyone pays the same amount of money.

Judges need to judge RIGHT! When a horse is getting measured, if it measures over, ............. well, its in the over class... sorry , thats just fair. If you can get some feet off and it measures in , well, ok.

no problem.

Problems wouldnt be so quick to happen , if people would do their jobs and be FAIR!

I feel really bad for this person. I know the trainer did alot of hard work also. As far as letting the trainer know you were filing a protest............. I really dont know how I feel.

I just know if the horse were measured in right to begin with , it would not have happened.

Belinda's right, it is the clients who keep the trainers in bussiness. Its up to the clients to let the trainers know up front that as much as they want to win, they want to win fairly. Or in this case, stand up for whats fair.

I would say some changes need to be made in different areas of showing.

I hope I get to make convention this year. Its up to us , as the people, to see things change, and to put people in the position of making that happen.

Like I said , I do not show, just was reading this topic and had my opinion about it

Congraulations, to all the winners and hats off to everyone who worked so hard.

Linda Killion

 

[minisaremighty]

Thank you Belinda for sharing the owners email with us. In this day and age, I will ALWAYS respect ANYONE who has the courage to do what is morally and ethically right. In this case these owners did exactly that and they followed AMHA's own rules to do it. They didn't just stand around and complain about it like most everyone else did. They took action. If more people were as courageous as them, maybe this issue wouldn't occur again. What is truly sad is that when people do stand up for what is right, they have to suffer repercussions of doing so.

To me, the issue is not this particular case at hand, but the apparent overall issue of measurement and following the rules.

Before I go on, I have to say I do not show, but I dream of one day showing. The things I've heard about the AMHA World Show are VERY discouraging to me. I assume it will be challenging for a beginner to get into showing in the first place, but to hear that there are continuous problems from local shows all the way to the top with MEASUREMENTS, it is very disheartening. Is HEIGHT not what AMHA is all about??? Seems to me to be an integral part of showing, being measured correctly and showed in the proper class. If those rules are regularly being overlooked, it lessens the importance and significance of winning an AMHA title.

Makes me seriously reconsider whether or not I will continue my dream of showing.

 

[minimomNC]

Please do not think that because of this incident that the entire show was bad. It was our first World Show with our own horses and we had a great time. Our horses measured taller than they did at Eastern Regionals but all well within the size group we showed with all year. The one reason we stay with amateur and not go to much into open is that the height really doesn't matter as long as the horse measures for its age group, ie: two year olds can't go over 33".

I wasn't involved with this incident and didn't even know much about it until I got home. Our horses placed well for us, out of 12 classes we brought home 7 top tens and two of those were top fives. Yes the little person can show at the National level and do well. Our Sr Gelding actually placed 3rd in his amateur class. We were thrilled. So please don't think the entire show was run poorly, it wasn't. This is just one incident on the last day that shouldn't have ever happened in the first place. And I don't mean the protest shouldn't have been lodged I mean the measuring should have been more accurite.

No one can change the facts as they happened, its done. Now is the time to learn from this and change what happens in the future. And staying away from the show ring won't fix the problem. Maybe more of the little people showing their own horses will help it. Get out there and see what is going on at the small shows. If you are with a club putting on a show, make sure your measurer stands by the rules. Thats where this problem is going to be fixed. Post pictures of acceptable ways to stand the horse, post the rules that apply to measuring so if there is a conflict with how a horse is measured then the rules are right there. And make sure the measurer knows that the mane usually doesn't go to the middle of the horses back. The rules are in place, they just need to be used.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

However, we did look at who the three horses were. One we didn'thave any information on, but an individual who knew the horse said

he would easily measure in. With no further information on him we let

that one go. The second horse had been showing in the taller class all

year, winning many grands, however the owner told me he was only 1/2"

over. Most people can trim hooves, etc. to take care of that.

So we let that horse go which was a mistake since his permanent papers

show a height of 29 1/2" on record at AMHA.

The third horse had not only been showing all year in the taller class,

but

had won a championship at one of the Regional Shows. It was listed

in the MHW current issue. The facts were right there. So we did

protest and paid our $50.

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My point simply was WHY SAY ANYTHING THEN.. how does that make the people who won that class feel? What is implied in that explanation to me it is implied the winner should NOT have won due to size issues when it isnt FACT

Why mention the other 2 horses you didnt protest AFTER THE FACT why not let it go period AFTER THE FACT

again i am not blaming nor flaming this person I am however questioning how the WINNER of that class would feel how many of us who have horses that have LEGITIMATELY moved up or down in a class how would we feel to be lumped in to this whole situation with no protest of course but the implication that there SHOULD HAVE BEEN ONE there.. that is all I am saying

 

[tagalong]

Before I go on, I have to say I do not show, but I dream of one day showing. The things I've heard about the AMHA World Show are VERY discouraging to me.

There have also been disputes at AMHR shows.... many top trainers show at both. I think it would be a good idea to address the measuring issues for BOTH registries and eliminate any "technical" differences... and make sure the rules are followed everywhere...

Pay attention to minimomNC's post...

... don' t let such things dissuade you - as many have fun and do well - even at the big year-end shows. Many big name trainers walked out of classes without a top ten placing... it is not always the person on the end of the leadline that makes the difference - but the actual horse.

What a concept!!

*edited the rest so as not to repeat what others said in a more concise way...*

 

[faithfarm]

I've read all the comments on this issue and decided to join the forum to put in my two-cents. My horse won the 28-30 class and the protested horse came in Reserve. I know my horse is 30", I have measured him numerous times. The horse that was protested measured 28.5" at the Regionals and they were going to try to take some foot off of him before the World Show. I think he was probably legitamately measured at 28" on the initial measurement. He is considerably smaller than my horse and is not 29.5", no matter what he measured when protested.

I read the reasons why the other owner didn't protest the other 2 taller horses. I will not comment on the motives to only protest the best horse. I believe this situation was handled wrongly. The measurements are clearly posted days before they show and if a protest is to be filed it should be done with input from the handler. I had a similiar situation last year with a horse measuring down into my class. I discussed it with my trainer and he told me to go to the other trainer and owner and talk it over. The other owner volunteered to remeasure the horse and the issue was resolved. I agree that something should be done about the "official" measuring but protests are a last resort, communication should always be first.

 

[Minimor]

Lisa, I believe one of the posts on one of these threads--I forget which one where & am not going to go back through them all to find it...someone implied that there were other horses in that class that should have been in the taller class, and so it was wondered why those were not protested, just the one was--that poster implied sour grapes, the horse most likely to win was the one that was protested (at least that's the implication I got from that one post, maybe I read it all wrong *shrugs*) In any case, I feel the owner here has explained how she chose to protest the one horse--that's why she said something about it, & I do feel that needed to be explained.

If a horse is within 1/2" of the height limit, well, to me 1/4 to 1/2" is an acceptable varience--I can measure a horse 3 times and get 34", 34.25" and 34.75" (& did, I have to take measurement #4 before I send in this gelding's permanent application! I think 34.25" is probably the right one

) But ya, that amount of difference can be accounted for by hoof trimming, maybe an "oops" when clipping & a bit of mane hair gets taken off (how to make a horse move up one height class until the mane grows back in

!)...but when it's 1.5" to 2" difference, that's no error. And that's where more protests should come into being.

As for how would "I" feel if it were implied that I shouldn't have won because I was in the wrong class....looking at your example here from my own personal perspective Lisa....if my horse were in that particular class fair & square, well, I know that I was where I belonged (or at least my horse was) & that I deserved the win, then anyone is welcome to say what they like. If I happened to be the sort of person that would put my horse into a smaller height class & my horse truly shouldn't have been in that class, well, then people wouldn't be wrong in saying things against my unfair win, would they?

But ya, anyone showing AMHR only & thinking this is only an AMHA problem should probably look closer. At our local AMHR show the steward is a real stickler for height--she measures accurately, no matter whose horse it is, and I dare say no owner would get away with convincing her to manipulate heights.

I've been told about one year at AMHR Nationals when one particular steward tried to measure accurately; she was bullied so badly by irate owners/trainers that she was in tears. (As I recall, her stand on accuracy was not supported by those in charge--I could be wrong on this, but I believe I was told that she was told to go along with the exhibitors' requests.) Not sure what year that was but it's been a little while ago now, so even back then a considerable number of people did not want accurate measurements. From everything I've heard, 2005 Nationals was much, much more blatant in terms of taller horses being measured smaller. I expect (hope) that one of these years all of this will come to a crashing halt, but obviously when it happens it's going to be very messy, with a lot of hard feelings.

 

[Margo_C-T]

I have been following these various, but related-in-subject, threads with intense interest.

I must say "Bravo!", especially to the posts of Kim, Belinda, tagalong, and specifically to the folks who had the courage and moral fiber to file the protest, and to tell their story here. It is unconscienable, to me, that the "other" trainer and/or his wife confronted the protesters' trainer;however, I stand absolutely by my feeling that said trainer had a contractual obligation(yes, as an EMPLOYEE of their client-a fact that has been pointed out here by some who ARE, or were, trainers, and who have a genuine understanding of what constitutes the owner/trainer relationship)to the protesting owners--and should be called to account for his behavior-whether he was upset or not!

I would like to pose a question, and I will likely repeat it on the other related threads....there has been much, and understandable, discussion of horses 'dropping', or trying to, into lower height divisions. BUT-what about the horses who are being allowed to show AT ALL in AMHA(and, I would be willing to wager, AMHR), when they are demonstrably TOO TALL for 'any' of the breed's height divisions-and I DON'T MEAN by 1/4 of an inch!! ( I would venture to say that I have studied correct measurement as closely as any "ordinary owner" there is, and I am WELL aware that measurement can vary as much as 1/4" without an easily discernible reason--(in my estimation), more than 90% of the time, that's pretty much the extent of it--and, on RARE occasions, it *might* amount to 1/2", but I have never had it be more--IF you are doing the job correctly-and, I could even support a specified, slight "leeway",with this phenomenon in mind! But then--how do YOU think these horses are "measuring in", when they are 1" and(sometimes considerably) more, taller than they are being "measured" to be-especially, in AMHA's case, with the latest 'hands off once set up' rule actually in the rulebook! Honestly, there is so much "rationalizing" about how widely measurement supposedly varies-I suspect that many people think it is too much bother to work at doing it correctly-sorry, but that's my take-please, feel free to try to convince me otherwise! I KNOW it is problematic to provide a proper site for measurement, but, if you WANT to badly enough, you can, even on your own premises....and IMO, at ANY approved show, one of the requirements of show approval should be that the show WILL provide such a provable measurement location--and it goes without SAYING that there must be a provably level location for measurement at ANY Regional or National level show! That's "Job One", IMO."Job Two" is then to measure EVERY HORSE presented, strictly and accurately, at EVERY show, and at every level.

It burns me to the depths of my SOUL to read that ANYONE was told that it was "POLICY"(????)that they couldn't(following the prescribed and written procedure)file a protest! Where does it say that anyone within the registry, owned by its members, has the authority to do that, when it is not in the rules??? Is this part of a policy of intimidation? I can tell you all that there are most CERTAINLY owners and trainers 'out there' who operate in this manner--we had a exhibition of it at our club-sponsored show earlier this year. Although I had refused to be present, I do know that one well-known, big ol' 'trainer' actually snatched our Club's (nearly new, and very well-cared-for) Sligo stick from the hands of our measurer, and hammered on it, saying it "wasn't accurate"....(if I am there the next time, he might lose a hand if he tries that.)I do believe, however, that this kind of behavior is by design, and aimed at intimidation of show personnel and committees, with the clear implication that they won't come(meaning, enter, and provide financial support for your show, if you don't "go along" with the 'trend' of audacious measurement, and negation of the written rules.

I would hope that the management and BOARD of the AMHA take careful note of the various expressions within this thread that clearly demonstrate that this sidestepping of their own rules is HURTING them, in membership and participation-maybe not with the "important" exhibitors/trainers, but with a greater number of the "little guys", most of whom just want a chance at a level playing field where ther rules apply to all, and they can enjoy themselves. Question is--how important is it to the organization to keep the few happy at the cost of losing the support of the many?

I have to say that I absolutely believe that those of you who think this sort of thing isn't going on over at AMHR, and so declare your sole support to them, are ultimately likely to be sadly surprised. ( I found a post on one of the related threads, regarding an "incredibly shrinking" B-sized, AMHR, mini, to be very revealing, and not at all surprising, to me-read it for yourself to see what I am talking about.) This IS an industry-wide problem, and needs to be dealt with for and within the entire miniature horse industry, regardless of which major registry is your personal favorite.

 

[nootka]

I will admit that my prior post was made before fully reading the thread, and this is one thread where that was inappropriate to do so, however I did not realize it until I printed the thread and took it to town with me so I could read it in between errands while waiting.

If in fact, the true facts have been presented (and I have no reason to think they weren't), by the poster who posted for the owners of the horse that was not shown because they protested, then there is a LOT of shame in the situation on the part of other parties! The owners of this horse did NOTHING WRONG.

I think it's sad that AMHA/the show office did not do more to protect the identity of the protestor (owner of the horse). Does it matter whether a person has another horse showing or not? Could it be ANY member of the registry to protest? Why was this person's identity made known to ANYONE involved? Therein lies the majority of the problem, to me. AMHA and the show staff are quite culpable if you ask me, but maybe I'm misunderstanding.

As for the behavior of the OTHER trainer and their wife, it is without excuse. I don't see why they could not have accepted the decision gracefully. There WERE other horses in the class that were over, from my understanding, but for whatever reason, they were left alone. I just don't see why they felt the need to attack the other trainer, the owner, etc.

I am heartbroken for the owner of this horse who should have been allowed to show in his class, and I can certainly understand their disappointment and hurt and feeling betrayed, because they were let down in more ways than one.

Whomever you are, kudos and apologies if my prior post felt accusatory in any way, it was rather the result of my lack of time and full understanding of the subject.

I think the trainer in question did make an unfortunate decision due to pressure applied from who knows what sources, and it was a pretty bad call, but somewhat understandable, considering. No way am I excusing it, just saying they should have had more "cajones" and stood up for their client, for cripes sake, as has been mentioned, THEY are paying the bills not the other trainer.

Man, this is sad. It will be interesting to see how it all comes out. Will it help to get some attention on this subject if people who were not there write to the registry? I don't want to be seen as being one sided, mostly concerned, overall, for the lack of respect for the rules and abuse of them. That concerns me as a member.

Liz M.

 

[tagalong]

My horse won the 28-30 class and the protested horse came in Reserve.

Thus this whole episode has an ironic - and tragic - twist... and I feel for those involved...

 

[south_star]

[SIZE=14pt]I WOULD JUST LIKE TO KNOW WHERE EVERYONE GETS OFF THINKING THAT THIS CONCERNS THEM! THIS IS A MATTER BETWEEN A TRAINER AND A CLIENT... NOT THE ENTIRE WORLD. NOW THIS HAS BEEN TALKED TO DEATH AND THERE HAVE BEEN SOME VERY RUDE COMMENTS AND I THINK THAT IT IS HIGH TIME FOR PEOPLE TO MIND THIER OWN BUSINESS. I DO NOT HAVE ANY TIES TO THE SUBJECT BUT I CAN SAY THAT I AM TIRED OF ALL OF THIS AND WE SHOULD ALL JUST GET ON WITH OUR LIVES AND LEAVE THIS TO THOSE DIRECTLY INVOLVED![/SIZE]

 

[Skipper]

Key point 1: We do NOT know all the facts. Have even one of you emailed the lady whose horse was bumped and asked her HER side of the story? Has anyone contacted the trainer and ask him HIS side of the story? All you heard is ONE side and didn’t even question that version – was anything strategically left out? Until you hear from these 2 people you will not have the WHOLE story!

Key point 2: Gossip hurts - whether right or wrong. I bet many of you didn’t even know that the horse which was protested DIED from a tragic accident the day after he showed? The owner suffered a great loss and if the owner is reading these posts, I’m sure it’s very hurtful to her. I send my sincerest condolences to the owner of this beautiful stallion.

Key point 3: If anything, the measurements are done by one person and thus HE/SHE or the organization he represents are responsible for an accurate measurement. AMHA is very lax in this rule and they need to have a strict standard in place. I don’t’ know about AMHR. Also on this point, a lot of you speak as if all owners who use trainers/handlers have complete knowledge of the measuring system. I can’t speak for everyone, but I know for a fact that one of the three owners whose name was besmirched didn’t even know their horse was dropped down into a lower class until they arrived at the show 2 days before his class and several DAYS after he was measured. They just came to see their horses show. They left the measuring, training, showing up to the trainer – that’s what they pay HIM for. The horse is so close to the line, he could have placed in either class. Yet, here some of you are – assuming it was some big conspiracy when they didn’t even realize it was that important. People – you don’t know how much you have hurt these people with your gossip. Their horse wasn’t even protested but their integrity was questioned and lumped in just the same.

Key point 4: As far as the trainer who refused to show the horse – in my opinion, he should have shown the horse. But, the protester should have consulted him before hand as to what they were going to do. He found out about it at the last minute (as the protestor states) and he was angry because it was just dropped in his lap by someone else – a very angry someone else - not even the person he was showing for all year and had a working relationship with. And to him – it probably made him look like he put her up to it, when he didn’t even KNOW about it. Think about this point (which no one has made yet) – knowing that he was embarrassed and angry – what if he showed the horse and the horse lost big time – would the owners then blame him for not showing the horse AS WELL as he could have because he was upset with them?

Key point 5: I know for a fact that the protestor knew at least two days before the class that one of the horses had been dropped down. In fact the heights had been posted for several days. Why didn’t they protest THEN? But the protestor failed to mention this in her explanation. She had plenty of time to consult her trainer.

Key Point 5: The winner of this class was NOT protested. Let me repeat that – the winner of this class did NOT own the protested horse!!! The stallion deserved the win – he is gorgeous!

Skipper

 

[Lauralee]

I wholeheartedly agree with LisaF's insightful post. THIS OCCURENCE INVOLVES ALL AMHA MEMBERS WHO CARE ABOUT THE RULES NOT BEING FOLLOWED!

To Skipper and south_star: It's hard to give any credit to the words of someone who doesn't show any identification in their signature, who has never posted prior to this time and who only logged on with their first post being this controversial subject.....smells fishy to me.

Are you hiding????

Belinda's post is at least credible because she is a regular poster on the forum and she at least uses her given name in her signature......

 

[tagalong]

I wholeheartedly agree with LisaF's insightful post.  THIS OCCURENCE INVOLVES ALL AMHA MEMBERS WHO CARE ABOUT THE RULES NOT BEING FOLLOWED!

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Yes - it does. And many here do know all sides of the story.

As I said - it has a tragic twist....

The rudest comments in this thread are from those who barge in and tell others to SHUT UP. The measuring issues SHOULD be discussed. The heads sticking in the sand and people looking the other way has gone on long enough. Ethics and professionalism can be discussed. Such matters pertain to ALL of us. If you have important facts to relate.... then DO so - and don't simply point and sneer. If a thread does not interest you - then do not read it or post. Simple message board rules and etiquette.... but then... in the mini horse world, rules do not seem to be of much consequence at times....

ETA:

Key point 2: Gossip hurts - whether right or wrong. I bet many of you didn’t even know that the horse which was protested DIED from a tragic accident the day after he showed? The owner suffered a great loss and if the owner is reading these posts, I’m sure it’s very hurtful to her. I send my sincerest condolences to the owner of this beautiful stallion.

YES - many of us are aware that he died from his accident. Hence my reference to the tragic twist. GET IT? And you note that out of decency we were not bringing that up in this thread - but YOU chose to. Do not assume that so many of us are stupid or unfeeling. HOW DARE YOU. Such is not the case and to be honest your insinuations of that are beyond rude.

Nobody was delving into deep evil conspiracy theories of any kind - just the usual measuring fiascos... and HOW to fix them and address them and prevent further problems. Trainers need to look at the situation long and hard as well.

After reading this thread and the other similar one - why anyone would dare to file a protest in the future is beyond me.... LOOK at what happens.... is the fallout worth it???

Key Point Number 6 (or actually - 7) for Skipper. Have YOU considered the feelings of ALL sides... even the owner who finally decided to do the right thing - followed the established protocol - and then had a trainer walk out on her when she tried to follow the rules?? That horse never got to the ring. If it was YOUR horse - how would you have felt?? And yes - we knew the winning stallion was not protested...

There is no black and white here - no absolute right or wrong. No "sides". And thus it is important to slowly sift through the layers and discuss the issues.... or so I thought. Guess I was wrong....

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Thank you Belinda for posting for the people that had their trainer bail on them.

Personally I'm so sorry they had to go through this, but applaud their taking a step towards cleaning up the measuring fiasco that both registries seem to struggle with still. They did followed proper protocol and procedures in what they did, it's unfortunate the couple that train the protested horse have such a lack of ethics that intimidating another trainer while he's trying to do his job would even cross their minds. It is just so low and shameful.

Their trainer may not have seen this coming himself, and it is unfortunate that there wasn't time to consult him about the protest, but ultimately it isn't up to him to decide if they chose to protest what they as an AMHA member see as a wrong doing. He's paid to show/train a horse, not make decision on which horses should/shouldn't be protested! If the trainer had any ethics himself, he would have protested that horse being downsized as most trainers at that level of competition know well in advance which horses they're showing against. (I know even on our local level you know which horses you show against!)

His responsibility is to his client not to another trainer. He may have been upset by what occurred, but a true professional would have shown his clients horse then discussed it afterwards. He literally betrayed their trust and ruined a dream for them. The minimum he owes them compensation for their expenses, and a huge apology.

Shame on both trainers and the trainer's wife - they've all been in this long enough to know better.

I am posting this response for the people that filed the protest , only because she wrote and ask me to , because she is not a member of Lil Beginnings and can not post on here at this time.. ..

 

[nootka]

Yeah, I know that the horse passed away and I am horrified and saddened for them. I know there were mistakes made, etc. etc., but the issue at the core of this entire tragedy grown out of proportion and complicated with all the surrounding issues is that we have to speak up and protest outright abuse of the laws of our registry.

If we don't, then we might as well just shut up and go on spending our money to let people who know how to cheat and have no problems cheating win everything and rake in more money from the clients that only care about ribbons and money, etc., etc., maybe that is a simplified and exaggerated view of it all, but it's true.

I guess I will go back and see if I can buy back my Arabian mare and take her to the shows this Spring. Bet I could measure her in if I hire the right trainers and guess what...NONE of you will beat me! *LOL* J/K, but it's that bad!

This is a height registry, and it's moronic to think that a horse named the 28" and under World Champion would show up anywhere else and try to claim his "real" height....what's the height division for...sounds like it's attempting (and succeeding, apparently) to take advantage, blatantly of people who abide by the rules and people who are newly entering this hobby/industry and haven't yet learned the "tricks" to winning. Not winning at all, but cheating and it is awful PR, just terrible.

I have no issue w/the crap between the trainer and owner, that IS between them, and while I don't know the whole story, I am going to hush up on it, but I DO know there is measurement issues with almost every show I've ever been to, either one way or another, and it needs to be solved somehow. When it gets so bad as to have horses a few inches taller than their actual division, it has gone too far and it's making a true mockery of our organization, which is US.

I'm just babbling/venting, but I don't see where it's right to turn a blind eye because it happened to someone else. Soon enough, it will, or a situation like it, will involve us, if we let it get out of control.

Liz M.

 

[honeycomb max]

Hopefully from all this AMHA will investigate as to why 1) the trainer of the protested horse was clearly allowing the horse to be placed in a lower measurement when the horse had shown all year in a higher measurement. 2) By what authority did the second trainer refuse to show his clients horse. 3) By what authority did the show committee refuse to allow anyone the ability to file a protest per the rulebook. 4) The conduct and ethics of the trainers involved for unsportsmanlike conduct. 5) Why have the problems with measuring been allowed to reach a point that this situation should have ever occured.

If we do not stand together for change then there can be no change. The rules are in place and it is time that they were being inforced.

 

[Cathy_H]

I WOULD JUST LIKE TO KNOW WHERE EVERYONE GETS OFF THINKING THAT THIS CONCERNS

I would like to say that it DOES concern everyone who shows ......... ALL miniature horse exhibitors NEED to know what HAS BEEN GOING ON & allowed with this measuring mess. This forum is the best place to get the word out to the greatest number of people. All involved are welcome to tell their story here even AMHA.................... This incident supports what some of us know has been going on for years - "some horses are measured at the height that the trainers/owners desire"......................... AMHA is still at fault for allowing this to get to this point - seems the only way to get some people to listen is to raise a ruckus......... AMHA should do what is fair for all members - not just those that feel they have clout or are better than the rest of us.