Which breeder would you choose? (dog) hypothetical

[mad for mini's]

Nemesis , Thanks for the explaination of common guarantees that breeders offer. I have never had to use one so I was only going by what I had heard from others. My relpy was assuming that you don't care about breed standards or pedigrees , and are just looking to own a healthy , friendly family dog . Not being interested in showing or not minding if they aren't quite perfect in every aspect but just wanting a good healthy pup. I was a backyard breeder , I had two litters out of my Llewellin Setter . She is an excellent dog with good pedigree and I wanted to see more of these dogs out there and let people know how wonderful they are. I backed all my pups with an oral agreement that if anything was wrong to let me know and I would either take the pup back or refund money for them. I did have a pup with eye problems sold that I did later pay for the vet bills to have the problem repaired and I request pictures and place monthly calls until I am satisfied that the pup has a good home and the new owners are completely satisfied with the pup. Sometimes a backyard breeder is not all bad. I would still choose to buy a pup that was raised inside with people .

 

[mininik]

mad for minis- Even if you just want a healthy family pet and are not the least bit interested in showing you SHOULD be concerned about pedigree and breed standard. Knowing your dog's pedigree when breeding can help produce healthier pups in the case of hereditary health problems, not to mention halt inbreeding or linebreeding without proper research. Breed standard isn't just for showing but is pretty much what getting a purebred dog is all about (a certain look and temperament). Build is also important for a dog's long-term health.

If you don't care what your dog is going to look like (not breeding to standard) or if it may have health issues (because the pedigree wasn't properly researched), you're better off getting a speutered rescue to take chances on. Producing puppies just to produce more of your beloved pet without properly researching pedigree, health problems and breed standard does not guarantee you'll even get close to what you started with.

As for verbal contracts...

 

[Miniv]

Marty,

If you are set on buying from a breeder, then I would also say Breeder #1.

My actual first choice would be to look into a Rescue Organization for the breed you are looking for.

MA

 

[mad for mini's]

Well , I guess I should appologize . For the sake of shorting things up I had left out alot of details about breeding that seems to have caused some confusion. So there is alot that wasn't said here about this. And apparently a persons' word doesn't mean much any more...that is sad. :no:

mininik : my pedigrees were greatly scrutinized before I decided to breed her. I had no intention of breeding her when I bought her but after learning her background and learning everything I could and seeing what a wonderful family member she has become we decided to breed her. And no one can guarantee a perfectly healthy dog, sometimes things can just happen.

JMO

:

Edit to add that I have 7 dogs of differing breeds all from small breeders that I have had no problems at all with , the only dog that I have had trouble with was from a reputable breeder with impeccable bloodlines and OFA certified parents . She died at six years of age from what the vet said was cancer, it has been 10 years since but the memory of watching her die still haunts me.

 

[mininik]

No need to apologize. My post was less about what you said or did and more about what people commonly do not knowing any better or thinking what often happens won't happen to them. Of course no one can guarantee a perfectly healthy dog, but there's really no need to take so many chances anymore. As for verbal contracts, I think we see it enough even on this forum where they often go bad on one end or the other. Even people who meant it when they said they would do this or that sometimes can't follow through when they need to so it's always best to have everything agreed upon in writing and signed by both parties.

:

 

[Shelley]

II know of people that have bought OFA certified pups to later have them develop problems anyway.

OH DEAR!!! It is this way of thinking that has gotten so many breeds in trouble in the first place!

First, it is the parents that are OFA certified, not the puppies. No, it is no guarantee, but it certainly

does increase the chances that the puppies won't have a problem. It's generation after generation

of testing and selective breeding that eliminates these problems...it's those that don't test and breed

blindly that perpetuate them!

Especially in a breed like German Shepherds, OFA certified parents are a MUST!

A word to the wise...if any breeder you are talking to does not test, says "their line does not

have any problems", or worse yet, they don't even know what they are supposed to be testing for...

RUN FAR, RUN FAST!!!

Shelley

 

[Katie12]

I think Breeder #1 is just talking a good game. He is not too responsible if he is breeding and hasn' OFA'd the mother. With this breed especially.I'd keep looking. Oh that's right your not!

 

[qtrrae]

Marty,

I would not even consider buying a puppy from someone who "moves" them at 6 weeks of age.

To me that is way too young - we have always had German Shepherds and the majority of breeders do something similar to breeder #1 - ( Weans his dogs at 8 weeks but prefers they do not leave until they are closer to 10- 12, so he can observe them.) To me this is someone that really cares about the puppy and they want to make sure it will be ready for a new family.

I know you can never replace Tracey but someday you will be ready and my friend, I just KNOW you will become a German Shepherd "Mom" once again. Only "you" will know when the time is right, I do know that you are feeling the loss of Tracey something dreadful. She was very special to you and I can just imagine how difficult it is to be actually able to move without having that big precious Tracey to

stumble" over.

I know that my day with Keisha is coming soon, she is 13 years old and is really starting to show her age but she is still determined to go every where that I go and is always under my feet and I LOVE it!

Hugs and keep on hypothetically "checking" out those puppies!!

 

[Nemesis]

I think Breeder #1 is just talking a good game. He is not too responsible if he is breeding and hasn' OFA'd the mother. With this breed especially.I'd keep looking. Oh that's right your not!

Could he have prelim'd mom through OFA or had a vet do hip X rays and clear her as sound no defects? Either way she would have no official OFA number but would have had her hips checked and both would be provable either with the prelim certificate or the vets x ray report.

 

[runamuk]

People breeder number 1 did NOT breed traceys dam...here is what it said in the original post

He also knew her mother and what was wrong in that bloodline which came from the mother's side. He told the owners she should be spayed and not bred at all, but of course they didn't listen,

 

[Marty]

Jerry took me on a road trip today to look at GSD puppies, and guess what happened?

I looked at the daddy.

I looked at the mommy.

I carefully looked at the facility and the way they were all cared for.

Then I looked at the contract.

Everything seemed to be in good order.

Then I saw a wonderful bouncing baby girl that came right over to me and began to pull at my shoelaces.

I picked her up and held her so close.

And then I patted her on the back like I was burping her.

She was wonderful.

I got all misty.

I showed her to Jerry.

He smiled.

He asked me if I wanted that one.

I said no.

I put her back down and we left.

I'm just not ready at all.

I think that man is going to strangle the daylights out of me yet.

It's hard being me.

 

[runamuk]

AWWW Marty you will be ready when the right one is there. I know how hard it is. Let yourself grieve and just be open to what will come your way.

 

[ChrystalPaths]

Marty...(I'm saying this ever so quietly and gently)...you speak of "signs"...shoe lace tugs, holds like a child, made you smile? Could these have been signs? I won't say another word.

 

[Minimor]

Personally I prefer backyard breeders to fancy kennel owners.

Me with my nasty suspicious mind has to wonder--do we know for sure that breeder #1 is really as knowledgeable as he lets on, or does he just talk a good line. Anyone with a gift to gab can string a good line to someone that is less familiar with the subject breed. If you don't know the facts, you can get taken in by a line of BS. If a knowledgeable breeder talks to the same person, he may see the guy's knowledge totally differently from how you see it. If the most knowledgeable breeder in the country were to talk to this guy--would he/she be impressed with the fellow?

"I'm not in it for the money". Ya, sure. We hear that one often.

As for the part about him owning Tracy's sire, and saying all Tracy's problems came from her mother? Would you expect him to say oh the mother was wonderful, but I owned the father & some of his pups did have problems? Would you really?

Sorry, breeder #1 doesn't impress me so far.

 

[Ashley]

Neither. I beleive Marty will go with neither but will rescue another dog!

 

[Marty]

#1 is really as knowledgeable as he lets on, or does he just talk a good line.

No, he's knowledgable and I'm not easily impressed, but I've been around the block a few times and I know a line of BS when I hear it.

"I'm not in it for the money".

I sure do believe that one.

This is a hobby.

He doesn't need a dime or a job.

As for the part about him owning Tracy's sire, and saying all Tracy's problems came from her mother?

He offered the information. He could have said nothing and said he never heard of those dogs. But he stepped right up and said "that was my dog!" etc. (Who incidentally was OFA with a score of good.)Furthermore, Traceys momma was put down 6 years ago with the same problems that Tracey had. So that's a clue.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

without reading anyones answers I first would say it would depend on what I was looking for in a dog.

Looking for a pet, to breed or to show.

I surely dont think someone knowing the ins and outs of showing makes them a more responsible breeder that has been shown to me again and again in horses.

I never believe anyone who says they are not in it for the money.. there are enough of any animals in the world to not need to breed anymore no matter how good you think yours are.. whether you break even or make a little bit you are making money. If somone wasnt in it for the money in any way shape or form.. they would be giving the pups away or selling way cheap not in the hundreds no matter what the quality.

again it would totally depend on what I wanted out of a dog as to where I looked for a pup but I wouldnt discount that perfect match being found at a small or backyard breeder.

Everyone looks for something differen, clean kennels yes good basic care yes me personallyI would want a pup from dogs that had tons of daily family interaction not in a kennel all day. Both can be equally as cared for and healthy perhaps even the kennel ones a better "quality " when it comes to show dogs but for me I want to see how mom and dad react and want one that would be raised in a family atmosphere not a kennel atmosphere as that is what would fit in best with our family.

I think very early on there personalities are pretty set I didnt realize that till we had pups of our own but way before the 6 -8 week mark so Iwould want to know how at a young age they interacted wtih kids, lots of people around, cats, other dogs ect..

you just have to figure out what is important to you

 

[Matt73]

#1 for sure.

 

[Warpony]

He asked me if I wanted that one.

I said no.

I put her back down and we left.

I'm just not ready at all.

I think that man is going to strangle the daylights out of me yet.

It's hard being me.

(((hug)))

You'll be ready when you are ready and not one moment sooner... there is no shame in that at all.

 

[qtrrae]

Marty,

I'm with Karla - she won't ever replace Tracey but she will help to ease the pain in your heart.