Which breeder would you choose? (dog) hypothetical

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Due to the latest "newsflash" you posted (only the dogs OFA certified, no DNA on breeder #1), I would continue my search and not purchase from either breeder. :no:

Especially if these are GSDs you are looking at you really need to have PROOF that both the sire and dam and even some other relations of the litter you are interested in have OFA certified hips AND elbows AS WELL AS have current CERF exams. Having test results for vWD and thyroid panels is also prefered. Of course, both the dog and b*tch should have been at least two years of age before breeding. With your pup you need a solid guarantee letting you know what the breeder will do should your puppy come down with something contagious when you get him or her or should something hereditary pop up even years later. Keep in mind that most responsible breeders will also take their puppies back for life and include this in their contracts.

I say keep looking and definitely avoid falling for the puppy who may catch your eye, but who will probably also break your heart one day as the product of an irresponsible breeder.

Be sure to check out http://www.gsdca.org/ if I'm correct in thinking you are looking at GSDs. If you may consider a rescued dog, always check http://www.petfinder.com

Good luck!
 
Marty,

you are being such a rug.

Make sure the puppy is there sunday so I can see it.

Sheryl, there is really no puppy here, promise.

There will be no puppy here on Sunday, super promise.

I am totally not kidding. Window shopping ONLY. Not buying.

Just checking out the market for a hobby. Browsing.

I honestly think that right now, puppy is out. I just

got new leather furniture and 2 years of payments and I

don't plan on having it chewed up. And also, I'm an OLD woman

now, really OLD and decrepid, and don't have the energy to

go through puppy training again and picking up accidents. Furthermore, Jerry

likes to sleep and not be kept up all night long hearing a puppy

cry. He said NO more dogs. Well not exactly, but it's a good excuse.

My heart is not in having another dog.

I am quite surprised however that no one has voted for #2.

That lady also has gaurentees in writting and has some very

good things about her. OH well, I'm only tire kicking.......HONEST.
 
Well to be honest I didn't really see anything good mentioned about her (#2)... she just sounds busy and desperate. Not that I haven't been there a few times myself and found that to be the very worst time for me to sell any animal!! What are some good points about her, other than her dogs look to be good? And of course the obvious that "someone" is feeling sorry for her
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If it were a choice strictly between those two I would go with No.1 It sounds like he is serious about what he is doing where as the overworked woman must have done the breeding to make a few bucks even though she really doesn't have the time for them. Many people raise a litter of puppies to help out financially, not reralizing the work and time involved. But really, the best pet could possibly be one that comes from a shelter. For a loving pet, a registration paper isn't needed. I would check out disposition of dam and sire if I were going to buy from either of them because that is very important to me. Of course you know you would buy a dog in about the same manner as a horse. If someone isn't breeding for the money they must have some extra money to throw away because it does cost something to raise a litter, have the vet vaccinate, remove declaws if there, and check them all over for health. Have fun with your new puppy Marty
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Hypothetically, who do you plan to spend the most time around? The breeder or the puppy?

Personally, I would pick the puppy I like the best PERIOD. I'd be sure it had been screened for any illnesses or negative physical issues that the breed has a predispostion for and then I'd pick the puppy I most liked.

Maybe this sounds cold, but I couldn't give a hoot about the breeder. They're not going to become part of my family.

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Newsflash:

Breeder #1 has the daddy dog OFA certified, not the mommy yet

Breeder #2 has the daddy dog OFA and DNA'd but not the mommy either
Okay, having seen the heart break and worry of hip dysplasia in my parents' OES, Oliver, with any dog breed predisposed to this problem, there's NO WAY I'd buy one with this kind of unknown. They make puppies every day and German Shepherds are not a rare find so to speak... I think it's worth continued browsing until you find a breeder that has taken the steps to have both dogs OFA'd with good ratings.
 
Without reading the replies-

First I would never buy a puppy from anyone that sells them at six weeks- it is far too young for a puppy to leave the nest.

Second I have no problems with the lack of facilities- I have roughly the same facilities and breed for the same reasons and my pups are healthy, and sound and well socialised.

Third a pup can be weaned well before six weeks and should be if they are pulling Mama down- I feed mine from opening of eyes, ie ten days, and they are usually only sucking for comfort by three weeks, BUT they do need the social interaction of their family- they do not need their mother- up to eight weeks minimum, up to twelve weeks if it is possible (but I do realise it often is not.)

There is nothing hard and fast to say the pups from breeder #1 will better than the ones form #2 but you will get an older, better socialised pup in this instance.

Having the sire and dam hip scored is a good way to go but absolutely NO guarantee that the pup will be OK- most breeders will offer a buy back (HAH!!) or money back clause if the pup has bad hips- that is what i would go for in a breed as rife with the problem as GSDs (actually I would go as far as a different breed.......)
 
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Due to the latest "newsflash" you posted (only the dogs OFA certified, no DNA on breeder #1), I would continue my search and not purchase from either breeder. :no:

I agree. I think #1 is still marginally better, but I would keep looking.
 
#1 , no doubt about it, hands down.

We have Heelers, which can be prone to genetic faults. Not knowing that, over a decade ago, we bought 2 from different backyard breeders. One is fine, the other went blind from that genetic problem. So this time instead of buying from a rescue ( they couldnt guarantee health) I went with a breeder much like your #1. Loved Dallas with all my heart, but I cannot go through having a blind dog again.

Good luck in your 'not buying'
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Well I read a few of the replies on the first page and then went to look for some other posts..... I'm sorry to say I did not know you lost your Tracy.... I'm so sorry to hear that Marty.

To answer your questions if I were looking to purchase a GSD pup I'd go to a reputable breeder who had both sire and dam hip certified and who guranteed their pups and I would want to visit them and also see references to the puppies they had placed prior.

Years and years ago I had GSD's I loved my last one Rambo the best, he lived to be almost 14, never will have one here again...that's the bad part about having purebreds I still can't see one without seeing Rambo. ....Now to the present, it's been a year and 3 months since I lost my Chewbacca (Chewy) and last weekend I took her half bag of dog food out of the small trash can that has sat in the corner of my kitchen all this time and threw it away....Baby Girl (husbands Boston) did not eat the same kind of food, and Dolly my Pyr was certainly not getting my Chewys food, it was her food. Her collar is here, I couldn't bury it with her it's on a shelf uner her photo. I couldn't have loved my Chewy more if I'd given birth to her. I'll probably always have a livestock guardian but I'll never have another house dog I didn't even consider Chewy "a dog" she can't be replaced but I do know people do this and if that is what you need don't apologize to the people on here....obviously you want and need another companion or you wouldn't be looking and talking so indepth with breeders. Good luck to you Marty.
 
and also see references to the puppies they had placed prior. .
I am all for asking for references but in reality how many people are going to give out less than the glowing references for anyone to check up on? When I have asked people for references I have never been given a less than glowing reference from anyone to check on. I dont recall ever being given a reference to check that said "these people are scum we wouldnt buy from them again".
 
After reading more of the replies I wanted to ad that references and guarantees mean very little to me BUT all pups are cute. Really I would look at the parents and decide!

I do think with large breeds(in particular) with many known health issues testing is key NOT to guarantee pups health (genetics can be very unpredictable) BUT to guarantee the parents are breeding sound!

Another of my pet peeves owners breeding dogs with poor temperaments :no:

Marty, I know it is none of my business BUT I think a puppy would be soooooooo wonderful for you! One of Mindy's pups
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: Of course, I want one of them too but fat chance!

A sweet, old lady,(almost 80), recently widowed after many years of marriage, took a little dog of mine( a young dog) and it has been the best thing for her! She said the dog is pure joy to her!!

She has written into her will that her daughter or I will get the dog should something happen.
 
Personally, I'd go with #1. Change "breeds Shepards" to "Breeds Minis" and there is no comparison. I wouldn't buy a horse from #2 if the mare was thin and pulled down.

OK, no puppy for Marty. Go to www.petfinder.com and get a rescue older dog who's house trained and crew proofed!
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And you'll save a life in the process!

Lucy
 
I would respect any breeder who takes responsibilty for the puppies they produce - for the life of that dog.

Every breeder I have dealt with - Borzois, Smooth Fox Terriers and Border Terriers - made it very clear if for any reason I could not care for the dog involved - that they would take the dog back and re-home him/her or keep them.

Any breeder who only wants to take deposits and move 'em out... I would not consider. No matter what breed - or how cute the puppy is. Puppy cuteness... is the last thing to consider. All puppies are cute. Okay - maybe not - young borzoi puppies are... well, not "cute" per se... :bgrin

And never, ever go with your first choice right off the bat... if they seem great, keep looking anyway and checking other breeders out - if the one you first liked still holds up - then go back to them. JMHO.
 
Actually -- at this point in my life --- neither one -- I would check with a Breed Rescue for the chosen breed --- or go to the local pound.
 
Ok this is hypothetical, sorta.

First I am NOT getting a puppy, ok?

I cannot help but browsing, and ok, I'm an admitted tire kicker. I am not getting a puppy and that's that but I enjoy looking around anyhow. Yes, I am ashamed of myself for bothering people when I am not buying. I was only inquiring, that's all.

However, there is something that came up and I'd like to hear your opinions on who you would go with if you were wanting to buy a puppy. (which I am not).

Breeder #1.

He's very passionate about the breed. The first thing he says is that he is not in it for the money, but is striving to put the best dog out there that he can. Has been breeding several lines for over 20 years. Show's professionally. I have learned more about the breed in two conversations from him than I have from my own research efforts. I could sit there all day long and just listen to what he knows. He knows just about every bloodline there is, the goods and the bads. Very knowledgeable about conformation, diseases, behavioral problems. You name it. This guy is a walking encyclopedia, but he's not full of himself. He's very helpful. He can care less if he sells puppies or not and is not anxious to take a deposit. Has a favorite vet, but does most of his own vaccinations, de-worming etc. His kennel is very impressive, a wonderful set up, and dogs are amazing and very happy and the picture of health. Weans his dogs at 8 weeks but prefers they do not leave until they are closer to 10- 12, so he can observe them.

He used to own Traceys father (small world) and sold him 14 years ago. He also knew her mother and what was wrong in that bloodline which came from the mother's side. He told the owners she should be spayed and not bred at all, but of course they didn't listen, and I ended up with a result of that breeding.

Breeder #2

This lady is a stay at home mom of young kids. Has been a backyard breeder for 5 years for extra household money. Doesn't show, doesn't seem to know too much, but is acceptable in the way she seems to try to be a good doggy lady. She's not up on bloodlines and doesn't know a lot, literally nothing about conformation faults/ problems in the breed/ from a showing/breeding standpoint. The sire and dam are just her beloved pets. She does her own shots and de-worming and her schedule is close to that of Breeder #1. She goes between 3 vets if she needs one but usually buys her vaccines from the feed store and de-wormer. Has no big time looking kennel. Has a very modest laundry room converted into a puppy room and a small fenced in back yard for exercising. Is anxious to get deposits and get the puppies moved along by 6 weeks. They are pulling the mama down terribly and mama is very sore and loosing too much weight and needs to wean the pups. She has the same quality of Breeder #1 but I don't think doesn't have a clue that her dogs are that good.

They are both charging the same price for puppies.

Repeat: I am not buying a puppy. Karla, you got that right?

But if I were, who would you go with?
Hands down breeder number 1. That breeder will more than likely guarantee the pup against known health issues in the breed. You want a breeder with experience and someone who can help you along the way. Also it is much better for the pups to stay with the littermates until 10-12 weeks as they learn valuable social skills.

Hypothetically if this is a GSD I would never buy from someone who isn't aware of the bloodlines and health issues...........it is heartbreaking to lose a dog at a young age to preventable health problems.

just my opinion
 
I myself tend to shy away from the so called "big" breeders. I don't believe that pups that are kenneled with mom and receive little human contact make as good of a family dog. I like that the so called backyard breeders have the pups in the house with the family, living among humans and are handled by children . The looks of the mom and care of the pups have to be taken into consideration at either place. And being OFA certified does not mean that they won't develop hip problems. I know of people that have bought OFA certified pups to later have them develop problems anyway. As for guarantees, they are nice if the seller is offering to refund the purchase price and pay for vet bills if something genetic goes wrong but if it states that a replacement will be made would you part with your pup to accept a replacement? (Unless of course that said pup is deceased) I would keep looking, there are good "backyard breeders" out there, anyone willing to part with pups at six weeks is not looking out for the best interest of the pups and even though the big time breeder knows alot about his dogs, his pups may not be well socialized. Have fun " just looking" :bgrin
 
OK, no puppy for Marty. Go to www.petfinder.com and get a rescue older dog who's house trained and crew proofed!
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And you'll save a life in the process!


I'd agree with Lucy on that one! or...you could do like my mom did. She accidentally ended up with a Sheltie, a bit older and abused... had her for several years, totally fell in love with the breed... so when she lost Lady, she called the Humane Society and they referred her to a Sheltie specific rescue... and very shortly she brought home Tracy, who belonged to a teenage girl, going off to college and could not take her with, and parents did not want to be responsible for the dog... again an older dog so of course, the downfall with this choice... she had less time with her than if she had gotten a puppy, but being "old and decrepit" like you Marty...
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: a puppy was definitely not on her agenda.

i wish you had been here last spring... i was at a local animal shelter for therapy-animal training and there were several young adult dogs that had come into the shelter as a result of Katrina... of course no history at all but one of them sure looked like a beautiful GSD...
 
I myself tend to shy away from the so called "big" breeders. I don't believe that pups that are kenneled with mom and receive little human contact make as good of a family dog. I like that the so called backyard breeders have the pups in the house with the family, living among humans and are handled by children . The looks of the mom and care of the pups have to be taken into consideration at either place. And being OFA certified does not mean that they won't develop hip problems. I know of people that have bought OFA certified pups to later have them develop problems anyway. As for guarantees, they are nice if the seller is offering to refund the purchase price and pay for vet bills if something genetic goes wrong but if it states that a replacement will be made would you part with your pup to accept a replacement? (Unless of course that said pup is deceased) I would keep looking, there are good "backyard breeders" out there, anyone willing to part with pups at six weeks is not looking out for the best interest of the pups and even though the big time breeder knows alot about his dogs, his pups may not be well socialized. Have fun " just looking" :bgrin
Most "big breeders" and by that I mean big name show breeders as opposed to puppy millers take excellent care of their puppies. They are well socialized and well adapted to life. I have yet to see a puppy in my breed that came from a "Big" breeder who was shy or scared of things.

Puppies cannot be OFA certified until 2 years old which is why breeders give a guarantee as we all know that OFA while it is a great tool to work with does not guarantee that a puppy from two OFA excellent parents cannot develop hip, elbow or knee problems. As for breeders offering money back. I can tell you I know fo NO breeder who will give money back but I know many who back up their contracts with replacement puppies. And No the vast majority do not require the puppy to be returned, why woudl they want to take the puppy form a hoem its loved in and have to place it again. They do however require that the puppy be spayed or neutered before a replacement is given.

And a BYB is usually ill informed on what the breed is about and wouldnt know a breed standard if it jumped up and bit them in the butt. Take a look at puppyfind to see that. Then ask the people who are selling the pupa anything about the pedigrees and health clearances and they go blank. Then of course try askign the BYB for money back or a replacement when things go wrong and see how quickly they have dissapeared.
 

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