What do you guys think?

[mistyrose]

Geld him and then do all the fun shows you want. If you get crazy about showing I have a registered gelding for sale that would make a great companion for him and you can do A + R shows too. LOL :bgrin

Lucky-C-Acres-Minis, It not that her stallion should be gelded and not those belonging to others. Theirs should be gelded too! There are too many intact males in the miniature population period! And yes we geld.

 

[erinspaintedacres]

Ok, Since I planning on leaving this forum anyway :aktion033: , I am going to speak my mind!

1) I think this is a bunch of bull sh*t about the market being crap. I think that everyone is just imagining things are worse than things actually are. The market for ANY kind of horse goes down during the winter months as most places, unless you have an indoor arena, (which most people don't) you cannot do much with your horses over the winter months(or at least up north you can't-it is way to icey). Peoples thinking is that why buy this horse now when i can wait a few months and buy it then for the same amount of money and not have to pay feed or board for those months. People think that grade horses are the only horses to go for meat. I have seen PLENTY of registered horses go through the sales ring to be bought by meat buyers. There are ALOT of peices of sh*t horses out there with papers. This is how it is around our area anyway, maybe the states are different.

2) Someone mentioned that they would not stand my stud even if he was registered. I NEVER once asked about ANYTHING to do with him being a stud or not (or even standing him as a stud). I ASKED FOR OPINIONS ON HIS DRIVING AND WHETHER HE WOULD LOOK GOOD IN A HALTER CLASS TO SHOW IN LOCAL AREA FUN SHOWS!!! Get that straight. I am aware that there are ALOt of studs out there that are not worthy of breeding. Either way, this is not what i asked.

3) I would like to make it clear that I do NOT breed miniatures as a business, it is a hobby. I have never even had a baby on our place (we are expecting one soon, the FIRSt from shadow) I have 2 mares that i have just bought. I only bought them in october of 05 and 06 We have only had Shadow for almost 5 years and he has never breed anything, and was with SEVERAL mares around him. He has never done anythign to deserve to be put through a gelding for no reason! THe "with papers" on my website is for my registered paint horses. We breed for registered paints because I show them and they have to be registered to go in the ring. If I didn't show in the breed shows, and they weren't registered, i would still breed them. I have posted several times that we have raised welsh pony and welsh pony QH Xs FOR YEARS for the hunter jumper ring. The have sold really good and we have NEVER had one go to meat. (we keep track of the horses through contacts with the owners) Rodeos and gymkannas have close to probably 3/4 of the total horses being grade. It p*sses me off to see ignorant people saying papers make or break the horse.

4) In respose to that comment about my mare being silver bay, if you happened to read my other post, I was questioning myself on whether or not she was, and just haven't been able to update my web page to change that. I am waiting until I get more pictures of my paint stud before I book a computer with high speed interenet as it just takes too long to do it with dial up.

5) Each person to his or her own, but it was NEVER stated that I wanted opinions on whether or not to geld him. If I would have said at the OP that he was a gelding, everyone would have all just went along with it as geldings are suppossed "super horses" Either way, I was asking whether or not you thought it would be a good idea to show him in LOCAL FUN SHOWS FOR NOT CUM.POINTS.

I have decided not to post on this or ANY future forums as this has really p*ssed me off. Thank you for helping me to decide that. I asked a simple yes or no question and this post got COMPLETELY off topic. I wish everyone good luck with your "breeding operations" and what not!

 

[Matt73]

:no:

 

[Rachel]

 

[Marty]

Come on people BACK OFF!

This young lady came here to ask about SHOWING, not GELDING~

That is her horse and she likes him as a stallion so leave her alone!

She does not owe any explaination to anyone for why she keeps him as a stallion.

Young lady I am sorry you have been offended here.

 

[Ferrah]

Wow...that spun out of control rather quickly. What a shame. :no:

 

[billiethekid40]

Take this however you like, but I'm soooo tired of people begging rude people to stay on the forum. She may have recieved some answers she didn't like, but NONE were worded so absolutely disrespectfully as hers. If she takes offense (and gives it) so easily, maybe she would be better off taking a break from the forum, because I don't think the forum should have to change to suit the tastes of new people. Or perhaps I'm just cranky tonight...

 

[tagalong]

Young lady I am sorry you have been offended here.

Marty - with all due respect - she CHOSE to be offended.... *sigh*

Erin - your lashing out was a bit out of line IMO... you asked people for opinions - you did not specify what kind of opinions... and the TRUTH is that there are way too many mini stallions out there - papered or not.

Your comment:

He has never done anythign to deserve to be put through a gelding for no reason!

... does not make sense IMO. Gelding is not major surgery. We have gelded older stallions than that with no problems whatsoever - and they went on to be wonderful performance horses. They do not need "the boys" to be successful at that....

:

No one commanded you to geld him - they just offered their opinions.

Another TRUTH - the mini market is down - and not just because of the winter.

Too many horses - especially on the lower quality end of things. That is the bottom line. Others have told you that based on what they see in the photos, your guy looks like a lot of fun to drive and to pursue that. Not a halter horse - so geld him. That is not an insult - you chose to take it that way. I get weary of people taking offense about every little comment. If one has been involved in the horse industry and breeding and selling horses for a number of years, one knows that stallions are not the be all and end all. And that only the best should be bred. And one also knows better than to slam others for valid, thoughtful suggestions. If you do not agree, than you can say so - without hostility.

And yes - I have worked in the horse industry in Alberta. I am no rookie. I know about the market for hunter/jumper ponies... and have seen very talented ones go for big money. But that is only a very small percentage of the total. Very small. Really small. And a papered Connemara of equal talent to a grade pony will sell for more...

People think that grade horses are the only horses to go for meat. I have seen PLENTY of registered horses go through the sales ring to be bought by meat buyers. There are ALOT of peices of sh*t horses out there with papers. This is how it is around our area anyway, maybe the states are different.

No one said that all papered horses are of high quality... please read again.

It p*sses me off to see ignorant people saying papers make or break the horse.

Well, you can stop being p*ssed off... nobody said that. BTW - just because someone may disagree with you - it does not mean that they are ignorant. What others did say was that papers provide a history - a record of lineage. One that can be used to evaluate a horse's potential - or not.

Yes - there are good grade horses out there. Does Camrose still have the big horse sales on every third Wednesday of the month? All those good grade horses - as well as registered ones - going for meat... but mainly grades...

If I would have said at the OP that he was a gelding, everyone would have all just went along with it as geldings are suppossed "super horses"

Supposed? A good gelding - no matter what breed he is - can indeed be a super horse. A set of balls does not make the horse superior any more than papers do. We have seen that over and over again.... as I am sure you have with your experience in the horse industry...

The old saying still holds true... why have a good stallion when you can have a great gelding.

Thank you for helping me to decide that. I asked a simple yes or no question and this post got COMPLETELY off topic. I wish everyone good luck with your "breeding operations" and what not!

"Breeding operations". That sounds like a bit of a condescending comment - but you are entitled to your opinion... and frankly - I did not think this thread went off topic. People offered their thoughts... and what they would do - and yet you chose to call them ignorant and sneer... *shrug*

Erin - this is how forums work - no matter what the subject is. They are an exchange of ideas and opinions. You sort through the thoughts, pay attention to the ones you like and disregard the rest. If you only want to hear opinions from those that will agree with you on every point - you need to say so.... but to me, the mix of ideas is what makes ANY forum informative, interesting and fun. Unless, of course, one chooses to take offense about other comments and make everything personal...

Another way to look at it - is that you get out of a forum/message board what you put into it. If you have an open mind, are willing to share ideas and discuss things without taking offense or chosing to bash others, then a forum such as this is a wonderful tool - full of valuable experiences and information that can save lives, enlighten, entertain and make us all appreciative of the horses we all love...

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

Come on people BACK OFF!
This young lady came here to ask about SHOWING, not GELDING~

That is her horse and she likes him as a stallion so leave her alone!

She does not owe any explaination to anyone for why she keeps him as a stallion.

Young lady I am sorry you have been offended here.

:aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

Thank you Marty! That was exactly the point of my previous post!!

And as far as it spinning out of control, it is not surprising at all that it did with this board.. And it is a shame that a nice person looking for advice was run off by those who *think* they know what's best.. I'm so tired of simple questions and what not being turned into things like this...

Take this however you like, but I'm soooo tired of people begging rude people to stay on the forum.

She wasn't any ruder than a lot of the people on here... She was ticked off and she had every right to be, and believe me, some of the people on here who are held high are just as 'rude' and 'crude' when they get p*ssed off too..

with all due respect - she CHOSE to be offended.... *sigh*

She SPECIFICALLY asked what your opinions were on ENTERING HIM IN A HALTER AND/OR DRIVING CLASS nowhere did she ask your opinion on whether or not he should be gelded.. You can not honestly tell me that if you asked a similar question about one of your stallions and numerous people shot back with GELD GELD GELD you wouldn't be slightly offended

If the stallion is well mannered intact then WHY would someone want to pay to have him gelded?

If you have an open mind, are willing to share ideas and discuss things without taking offense or chosing to bash others

True, but I've found that one of the biggest problems here (and yes I'll be flamed for this) is that there are too many closed minded people here, they believe their way is 'The Way' and their beliefs/strategies/opinions are it and are not willing to listen or think outside the box, as is with this case, FOR BOTH SIDES..

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Actually the only one I see being rude here is you Erin. :no:

I see gelding as being a good thing health wise to a stallion. Thats why one of the reasons why I said perhaps you should think about gelding him. Even if he had papers I would say that. He can make an excellent gelding. It's great he doesn't act up and actually acts like a stallion but that might change once he starts breeding mares. Do what you wish, good luck with him.

 

[tagalong]

And as far as it spinning out of control, it is not surprising at all that it did with this board.. And it is a shame that a nice person looking for advice was run off by those who *think* they know what's best.. I'm so tired of simple questions and what not being turned into things like this...

People were asked for their opinions - and they offered them and elaborated a bit. Nothing more.

One can take or leave them.

Therer is nothing wrong with that... and for the most part - nothing was said in a bad way.

She wasn't any ruder than a lot of the people on here... She was ticked off and she had every right to be, and believe me, some of the people on here who are held high are just as 'rude' and 'crude' when they get p*ssed off too..

So rudeness is to be excused so fingers can be pointed at others? I need to mull that one over...

She SPECIFICALLY asked what your opinions were on ENTERING HIM IN A HALTER AND/OR DRIVING CLASS nowhere did she ask your opinion on whether or not he should be gelded.. You can not honestly tell me that if you asked a similar question about one of your stallions and numerous people shot back with GELD GELD GELD you wouldn't be slightly offended

No - I wouldn't. Not in the least. That is part of the responsibility of breeding horses. We have gelded stallions here that have done extremely well in the show ring.

And they made great geldings. I have never understood the "shame" that some find in gelding...

If the stallion is well mannered intact then WHY would someone want to pay to have him gelded?

Again - no one said she had to - they just offered their thoughts on the matter. Sometimes I think one should attach a disclaimer when one starts a thread - Attention: This thread is only for the purpose of agreeing with me. Any other thoughts will not be considered and will be shot down. Thank you.

:

True, but I've found that one of the biggest problems here (and yes I'll be flamed for this) is that there are too many closed minded people here, they believe their way is 'The Way' and their beliefs/strategies/opinions are it and are not willing to listen or think outside the box, as is with this case, FOR BOTH SIDES..

BOTH SIDES. That is the key point here. Although I only saw opinions and thoughts being offered - and not mandated. I prefer a variety of input and ideas - not just My Way or The Highway - or labelling others as ignorant if their opinions are different in any way...

...but that's just me, I guess.

:

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I do realize that this was not a post about gelding.. and I also know if someone posted a show pic of there stallion and everyone said what a great gelding he would be of course that person would be offended- if someone bought a new stallion and showed him here and everyone said oh great geld him he will be better of course they would be upset..Just imagine buying a new horse and feeling proud of the horse you just got.. and then everyone says OMG geld it.. or you post a pic of a new foal and everyone starts to right away point out conformation faults? Is it ok cause it is there opinion? Or is there a time and a place?

I would never walk down the street and if someone says Hi how are you hey do you like my new blouse feel it gives me free reign to say it is ok but really your shoes are way to ugly, your pants dont fit right, your hair is a do from the 70's and your make up OMG dont get me started on that...I may think it - it may be my opinion but sometimes my opinion just isnt needed to be voiced outloud unless it is asked for.

While I agree with the message that one can never geld to many horses- I also see the bottom line that this person never asked anything about gelding nor mentioned it simply wanted to know about open shows

 

[Minimor]

I can see why some want opinions on whether or not a certain horse is worth showing at some high level show--if one is thinking of going to nationals but doesn't want to put out that much money unless their horse is at least in the right ballpark when it comes to quality, sure , then it's worth asking. But only if you can handle any negative replies. If you only want to hear the positives, because you believe the horse is worth showing at whatever level you're wishing to show at, well then, don't even bother asking for opinions. You only want positive opinions and get angry at negative ones (and "you" is general here, not specifically meaning the original poster in this case)

As far as asking opinions on showing a grade stallion in driving or halter, sorry, but it is relevant when people start commenting on gelding. A specific horse may not be stallion quality, papers or not, and if shown as a stallion he may very well bomb out. Shown as a gelding he may do quite different. Many judges are much harder on stallions when they are judging. So, if you ask if a horse is worth showing in halter & some replies say to geld him--it's not a put down, it's simply an opinion that he will show better as a gelding; as a stallion, don't bother showing in halter. It's not rude, it's actually meant to be helpful. If you show him & don't win....do you get mad at the judge? Many people do. Or they'll go & ask the judge why they didn't win, and when they get the answer THEN they get mad at the judge. Mad at the judge for giving his honest opinion. Showing is kind of like posting on a forum. If you don't want the bad with the good, don't do it!

I just don't get it at all. If you're all stuck on your horse & think he'll be wonderful to show as a stallion, then show him as a stallion without asking anyone's opinions or advice. It will save you a lot of stress & resentment!

Now, back to what I was originally going to post when I opened this thread & read the initial question: if you have shows where you can show an unregistered Mini, you are lucky. Here if a Mini doesn't have papers it can't even show as a Mini at the local fairs or open shows. You can show an unregistered Mini in the open "pony" classes at the fairs but the small Mini sized ponies are often at a disadvantage because they have to show against the taller ponies--welsh, small QH crosses....

 

[susanne]

Attention: This thread is only for the purpose of agreeing with me. Any other thoughts will not be considered and will be shot down. Thank you.

:

Sadly enough, this seems to be an all too common attitude on this forum. Opinions are not allowed other than exactly what the OP asked for. Duhhh...this is a FORUM! If you're afraid of others' opinions, then don't post.

A polite, respectful tone is always called for, but I see no rudeness nor disrespecthere -- the worst are those offering honest opinions on a topic guaranteed to raise the hackles of most forum members.

 

[Sanny]

Erin - this is how forums work - no matter what the subject is. They are an exchange of ideas and opinions. You sort through the thoughts, pay attention to the ones you like and disregard the rest. If you only want to hear opinions from those that will agree with you on every point - you need to say so.... but to me, the mix of ideas is what makes ANY forum informative, interesting and fun. Unless, of course, one chooses to take offense about other comments and make everything personal...
Another way to look at it - is that you get out of a forum/message board what you put into it. If you have an open mind, are willing to share ideas and discuss things without taking offense or chosing to bash others, then a forum such as this is a wonderful tool - full of valuable experiences and information that can save lives, enlighten, entertain and make us all appreciative of the horses we all love...

DITTO. SO TRUE.

I have decided not to post on this or ANY future forums as this has really p*ssed me off. Thank you for helping me to decide that. I asked a simple yes or no question and this post got COMPLETELY off topic. I wish everyone good luck with your "breeding operations" and what not!

I see you joined the forum a week ago. It's probably good you've decided to move on. :saludando:

If you were going to stick around I'd suggest adding something to your signature that says something like

"please don't post a reply on any of my posts unless you are in full agreement with me and you promise to stay on task and only refer to or answer the questions I asked".

If you'd spent much more time here and you would have gotten REALLY REALLY frustrated because it is very rare that you will ever ask a question or ask for an opinion and get a "simple yes or no" OR manage to get everyone to agree with you.

By the way....I read through the entire thread twice because I was searching for the rude and ignorant people that you mentioned that posted. Have some of the posts been removed or changed since this all began?

I couldn't find any. I'll be watching though. :lol: not because there is anything else to be said about this specific topic -- I'm bored with it and I think it has run its course -- I'll be watching for good stuff like this from Lisa which had me....

:new_rofl: :new_rofl: :new_rofl:

Today just when I was feeling crappy and needed it the most.

LISA: I would never walk down the street and if someone says Hi how are you hey do you like my new blouse feel it gives me free reign to say it is ok but really your shoes are way to ugly, your pants don't fit right, your hair is a do from the 70's and your make up OMG dont get me started on that...I may think it - it may be my opinion but sometimes my opinion just isn't needed to be voiced out loud unless it is asked for.

SO TRUE.

By the way Erin....... just curious........YOU DO KNOW that at horse shows whether they are fun shows, open shows or breed shows, judging and placing horses is pretty subjective and opinionated and judges are not always going to agree with you about your horse and *gasp* sometimes they will even give you feedback you didn't ask for and might not want to hear. Including feedback not related to the class that they may have just judged you in. He seems to be a pretty special horse to you and in the long run you might be happier just having fun and enjoying driving him around home, on trails and in parades. Showing isn't for everyone nor for every horse.

I had to edit to add...in defense of the people that brought up the stallion or gelding issue that you didn't want to hear...may I suggest that possibly your choice of the title of your post "What do you guys think -- grade mini stud" started them thinking about breeding or gelding topics before they even opened your post and read what you were actually asking and it was just still on their minds when they were posting. I know it was my first thought. Had I not actually gone in and read the post I'd have assumed your questions were related to the sex of the horse. If the sex of the horse didn't matter then perhaps you shouldn't have mentioned it and should have chosen a different heading like "What do you guys think -- should I show my grade mini?"

 

[Whitestar]

Perhaps it would have been better to try to educate her by finding out what type of shows she planned to attend. If she planned to attend the breed shows, which she probably didnt as her horse was not papered, you could have shown her examples of horses that are winning in the ring & explain why they are winners, with conformational breakdowns. Alot of times it also depends on what you are showing against. Horses that win around here at the local small shows would hold a slim chance of winning in the national circuit. So perhaps in her region, her stallion would place in halter..... People tend to understand what you are trying to tell them if you have a reason, instead of "not stallion material, not halter material, never should be bred, too many unpapered poor quality horses out there..." Anyone that really loves their horses are a bit barn blind & when they ask for an opinion on them, they at least want to hear something good about them. Its like your kid...it is human nature to get your hackles up when you feel something you love has been slighted... Since there are so many miniatures out there that do look more like hers, than those that look like the national winning horses, how are people to know what is a good minature or not? Education is key. As an ambassador of the breed, everyone should consider joining their local miniature club, or suggesting to newbies to join to learn more. Almost everyone starts off with a lessor quality miniature until they learn to improve. What makes the difference I think, on their choice to continue to improve or to continue to enjoy the breed & the people in it, is how much of a welcome they get from other miniature horse owners. I have meet many miniature owners that have felt like people were looking down on them for owning anything less than perfect horses. Owning a miniature, not matter what the quality, what the use, should be a pleasure. Perhaps in the future, if anyone dares to ask for an opinion, then someone will be kind or brave enough to post pictures of what a good example of a miniature is & point out why it is "good"

 

[Jill]

:

 

[Relic]

Okay l had a really good look at Erins stallion saw from the first picture some faults and also took into consideration what he could look like clipped and groomed to the teeth. Could he be showned in a few halter and driving classes at LOCAL RANCH SHOWS...l think so why not. l have seen some not as good posted that others because they either knew the person posting said good things about for whatever reason and didn't go into a speel about better geld that guy to many stallions around as it is or stop breeding that mare she's not up to par. l know l shouldn't talk l have been told to my face everyone of the 10 stallions here should be gelded or gotten rid of and not have the choice to reproduce and add more to an already over populated world. Duhhh they must be perfection themselves to surround themselves with it....l'm sure not a perfect person what is is and you have that choice to work with it or move on...l love an underdog that can stand up and prove there's more then just going for perfection in whatever class balls or not..this was about showing what you already have love and are proud of not breeding right????

 

[Ashley]

If you read her site, despite what she says here he IS used for breeding. She has 2 mares infoal to him for this year.

And yes I have also been told to geld my stallion, however most said to give him another year and see what he looks like. This spring will be when I for sure decided what to do.

I also dont see a horse that goes through/over fences or breaks away from a human(and adult one at that) a well mannored horse.

 

[FairytailGlennMinis]

To answer the original question--would I show this horse....in halter--no, in driving--sure!

How boring would it be if all anyone ever did on this forum was to respond in yes and no format? It is the sharing of views, opinions and expanding the topics that makes this forum such a great place for learning. I wouldn't have learned anything over the years if I all I ever got was a yes or no answer to my questions.

Maybe people that don't want anything other than a negative or affirmative response should instead use the poll feature and specificly ask for people not to elaborate.