We are all just doomed..... Obamacare

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HGFarm

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This is beyond terrifying, but it IS written in the bill that 'nobody read' before it was voted in. They certainly were smart enough to exempt themselves from this genecide bill- and that is truly what it is. How much health care do you think you are REALLY going to get under this? Oopsie, you've reached your $5000 limit and let's see, it's gonna take the gov't committee months to make a simple decision on someone's care. Oh, they died in the meantime? Oh well! This bill is written to go along with Agenda 21, and deciding who is worthy of living and who is not. Wake up folks!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=HcBaSP31Be8&vg=medium
 
yes we are doomed....thats all I say as most in this forum will back Obama no matter the cost.
 
Excuse me but I thought we lived in the United States of America.

Doesn't sound like it.
 
I agree with Sonya. Obama wishes his voiced support here on LB was representative of his support among voters. Obamacare is unpopular and so is Obama. The more we know about either, the less we like what we learn. No incumbent president with approval ratings as low as Obama's are this close to the election has ever been re-elected. If Obama does not get his pink slip this November, we will can no longer expect to have the best health care in the world, and so much else is at stake, too.
 
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Well, you know someone had to jump in and cause trouble.
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Seriously, I respect everyone's opinion but I do love to debate and I'm the first to admit it when I'm wrong so here goes.

First thing that comes to mind is who put out this video? Source? All sources can take things out of context whether they are dems or repubs and reading a couple of lines on a page doesn't give you anything in entirety. I'd like to see the entire bill to read it for myself which evidently no one in Congress took the time to do before they passed it according to Nancy Pelosi. I'm having a hard time believing care will be limited to 5,000.00 care a year. If so, why remove the caps on lifetime benefits you will receive? You can run up more than 5,000 in a one day hospital stay.

My biggest fear with this bill is that no one knows how we are going to pay for it, small businesses are going to have a hard time funding their part of it and our country is going to be set even further back in this economic mess.

Disclaimer: I'm from Vermont and a Bernie Sanders fan and I do believe everyone needs access to health care. Hmm, Healthcare is a human right? Or is it?

It's going to be an interesting election year for sure.

And, Jill, I love reading your posts because I learn a lot from the links you share, etc. Just love a good debate.
 
No longer expect to have the best health care in the world?! LOL!

http://mobile.commonwealthfund.org/News/News-Releases/2010/Jun/US-Ranks-Last-Among-Seven-Countries.aspx

http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/

And here is a lot of great reading for those who would like facts from an unbiased source regarding Obamacare. http://www.politifact.com/search/?q=obamacare

Another must read-this one proves the falsehood of the video. It is NOT true! http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/mar/21/health-care-fact-checking/
 
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Another must read-this one proves the falsehood of the video. It is NOT true! Do your homework people.
That is a big issue - people do not actually do any homework for themselves - they just believe what they are told. Viral emails, videos, opinion pieces presenting themselves as fact, whatever... it is easy to check out the truth of these little "items" - and yet very few do.

That video full of fear-mongering misinformation is a prime example. Did anyone here upset about Obamacare not note that in Romney's speech about the SCOTUS decision to uphold the individual mandate - that a lot of what he said he would instigate when he was elected is already in Obamacare?? I guess not - it is okay if someone from the GOP says exactly the same thing - especially someone who already set up a similar healthcare program. Call it Obamacare or Romneycare or whatever you please - but something is needed to fix the mess we are in now... and even if Romney is elected, there is going to be some kind of healthcare - he will just call it something else and no doubt healthcare opponents will just look the other way.

I wish all the idiots in Washington complaining about healthcare issues would give up their very nice healthcare program they have as a government employee - but show me all the Republicans OR Democrats who are doing that, please... they won't put their money where their mouth is. Not a chance.

Anther great article HERE about the MYTHS presented about Obamacare - all links/facts are also checked and verified and are not from opinion pieces , blogs etc.

And contrary to what will inevitably be said here, Politifact, FactCheck.org and even Snopes are non-partisan and are only interested in the truth and actual facts... they hold everyone to task and expose the nonsense on both "sides".
 
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I wanted to post some links this morning defending and debunking, but my computer is hot and running just awful, so I'm glad that Tag and OHMT can, Thanks Guys!
 
There's a reason people who live in nations with socialized or nationalized health care who can afford to get treated in our Nation do seek treatment in the USA. We have the best doctors, the best technology and ... for now... no waiting lists and no rationing.

Is it perfect? No. Is a govenment overhaul the answer? No way! Bigger government is not the answer to any of our Nation's issues, and it never has been.

The cartoonists spin on this important situation:

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Health Insurance does not equal Health Care.

I do not believe Health Care is a right. The statement is just too broad. Is everyone entitled to a liver transplant? IV drug user? Alcoholic? Cancer patient? Geriatric? Is everyone entitled to plastic surgery?

I do believe Americans don't want to have dieing people left in the street to suffer. This is already being handled as Hospitals never turn down the dieing. These people are paid for by charging those who do pay more and through tax dollars.

The problem with Health Care is that it costs too much. I doubt Obamacare has or will lower the cost curve.

One last thought, I hear it being said 'no one should go bankrupt because they got sick'. Really when is the appropriate time to go bankrupt if it's not when you are trying to save your own life?

Dr. Taylor
 
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There's a reason people who live in nations with socialized or nationalized health care who can afford to get treated in our Nation do seek treatment in the USA. We have the best doctors, the best technology and ... for now... no waiting lists and no rationing.
I have several friends who have been treated in Mexico for MS, so to say the US's healthcare is so superior we flock to it when in need is a bit overboard. Yes, there ARE clinics in the US with some pretty awe-inspiring Doctors and equipment...but AMAZINGLY ENOUGH...there are millions of us here that are quite well taken care of in Canada.
 
Nobody is unopinionated- snopes is known to be 'pro obama'. I dont know about the other ones. So has anyone on here read the health care bill because nobody seems to want to REALLY know what is in it. Everyone relies on someone else's summary (including me as I have certainly not read the whole thing) So the pro-obama sites are not leaving info out or using inuendos to convince the reader that it's all good, but the non-obama sites are?

I dont want the gov't in charge of my health care. So who IS going to pay for all this? There's a question for you all.
 
I have several friends who have been treated in Mexico for MS, so to say the US's healthcare is so superior we flock to it when in need is a bit overboard. Yes, there ARE clinics in the US with some pretty awe-inspiring Doctors and equipment...but AMAZINGLY ENOUGH...there are millions of us here that are quite well taken care of in Canada.
I don't think it's at all overboard when some of your own government officials come here! There's a difference between coming to the USA to receive life saving treatment, and people in the US or elsewhere going to a foreign country for treatments not approved in the USA, cheap breast implants or a low cost nose job. God help us if we ever are forced into a single payer health system...
 
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So we have heard sides about what is not true in the health care bill- just exactly what ARE we getting then?
 
So we have heard sides about what is not true in the health care bill- just exactly what ARE we getting then?
I pray, a new President and the repeal of Obamacare.
 
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Well I don't think you have HGFarms because in at least one of the links I provided it explains how government will not be in charge and how it's being paid for. Or maybe it was tags? Hmmm...will have to look when I'm back on my computer. There are some doctors who are more superior in their specialties and they are spread all over the world. People come to the US for treatment from other countries, people from the US go to other countries for treatments. It's all in what it's for and the situation. To use that as the reason the US has a better health care system just doesn't make sense. We don't, as many studies have proven.

The best way to answer the last question-read it! At least skim through it. I'm working on it at the moment.
 
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Here's a recent article that should be concerning to all Americans:

Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare

Eighty-three percent of American physicians have considered leaving their practices over President Barack Obama’s health care reform law, according to a survey released by the Doctor Patient Medical Association.

The DPMA, a non-partisan association of doctors and patients, surveyed a random selection of 699 doctors nationwide. The survey found that the majority have thought about bailing out of their careers over the legislation, which was upheld last month by the Supreme Court.

Even if doctors do not quit their jobs over the ruling, America will face a shortage of at least 90,000 doctors by 2020. The new health care law increases demand for physicians by expanding insurance coverage. This change will exacerbate the current shortage as more Americans live past 65.

By 2025 the shortage will balloon to over 130,000, Len Marquez, the director of government relations at the American Association of Medical Colleges, told The Daily Caller.

“One of our primary concerns is that you’ve got an aging physician workforce and you have these new beneficiaries — these newly insured people — coming through the system,” he said. “There will be strains and there will be physician shortages.”

The DPMA found that many doctors do not believe the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will lead to better access to medical care for the majority of Americans, co-founder of the DPMA Kathryn Serkes told TheDC.

“Doctors clearly understand what Washington does not — that a piece of paper that says you are ‘covered’ by insurance or ‘enrolled’ in Medicare or Medicaid does not translate to actual medical care when doctors can’t afford to see patients at the lowball payments, and patients have to jump through government and insurance company bureaucratic hoops,” she said. (SEE ALSO: Jeremiah Wright: ‘White racist alien DNA’ running through synapses of Obama’s brain )

The American Medical Association, which endorsed Obama’s health care overhaul, was not able to immediately offer comment on the survey. Spokesperson Heather Lasher Todd said it would take time to review the information in the survey.

Janelle Davis of the American Academy of Family Physicians said the AAFP could not provide thoughtful commentary without studying the survey’s findings and methodology.

Read more: http://dailycaller.c.../#ixzz20unw0TxK
 
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Funny, I was just reading about that survey
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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/12/jeff-duncan/gop-lawmaker-jeff-duncan-repeats-survey-finding-83/

Couldn't get it all copied, but got most (on my phone)

As the House was taking another vote to repeal President Barack Obama’s health care law in mid July 2012, a number of Republicans offered a grim view of the health care system’s future under "Obamacare" by citing poll results that said many doctors were thinking about quitting.

One example: a July 10, 2012, tweet from Rep. Jeff Duncan, R-S.C., who wrote: "83% of doctors have considered leaving the profession because of #Obamacare #repealandreplace."

Many readers urged us to fact-check this statistic, which was circulated widely in the blogosphere in addition to being mentioned by other Republican lawmakers, such as Rep. Cathy McMorris Rogers of Washington state in an MSNBC interview.

We found it came from a survey by the Doctor Patient Medical Association Foundation, a group founded last fall that is opposed to the health care law.

The group asked: "How do current changes in the medical system affect your desire to practice medicine?" According to the group, 83 percent answered, "Makes me think about quitting," 5 percent said, "I’m re-energized," while 13 percent said they were unsure or had no opinion.

So while the number is right, it's important to examine whether Duncan has accurately explained the results.

Are the poll’s respondents actually talking about "Obamacare"?

Despite the linkage by Duncan and other lawmakers to Obama’s Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), as "Obamacare" is officially known, the question actually does not mention the law. In fact, none of the two dozen questions in the poll mentions anything about it.

Instead, the question asks about "current changes," which could include not just the law, but many other factors, such as changes driven by insurance companies and hospital systems. There’s no way of knowing what specifically the respondents were referring to.

In an interview, Kathryn Serkes, the founder and CEO of the Doctor Patient Medical Association, emphasized that the group was not asking specifically about the health care law. She noted that other findings in the survey painted a more nuanced picture than pure anti-Obamacare sentiment.

For instance, when asked to provide their top three choices for "who’s most to blame for current problems in medicine," 65 percent of respondents did choose "government involvement in general," but the next three categories were "health plans/insurance," "third-party payers" and "lawyers," with 50 percent, 42 percent and 42 percent, respectively. And while 27 percent cited "president" as one of their three choices, an almost equal number, 26 percent, cited "Congress," which is most visible today for a House Republican leadership that is dead-set against Obama’s health care law.

"What we know from the other answers in this survey is that there are two main things going on for doctors --government control and corporate control," Serkes said. "The rest of the results in the survey show doctors bemoaning corporatization as a very close second to government control. Many doctors don’t separate the two."

The poll’s sponsor

As with any poll, it’s always important to know who paid for it.

The group’s website says, "It is DPMA's position that PPACA is the Destruction Of Our Medicine, attempting to insert the government and bureaucrats between the relationship and decisions of medical professional and their patient." It was founded by a longtime representative of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, a group that stands for "individual liberty, personal responsibility, limited government, and the ability to freely practice medicine according to time-honored Hippocratic principles."

By itself, this doesn’t mean that the poll is untrustworthy. But it's important to consider that the group is strongly opposed to the law.

The poll’s methodology

Survey experts expressed some concerns about its design, noting that it's difficult to get accurate surveys on specific groups and occupations.

The DPMAF was transparent about its methodology. The survey was conducted by fax and online from April 18 to May 22, 2012. Of 16,227 faxes that were successfully delivered to doctors’ offices, 699, or 4.3 percent, submitted responses.

Experts said they were concerned with two aspects of the poll:

• Respondents weren’t given much of a middle ground. The choices for answering this question were "makes me think about quitting," "I’m re-energized" and "unsure/no opinion."

"It’s a poorly worded question that does not offer a complete range of likely alternatives, such as 'no effect,'" said Don Dillman, an expert in mail-based polls and a professor at Washington State University. Charles Franklin, a polling specialist at the University of Wisconsin, agreed that the response categories offered were "odd."

In addition, interpreting the question requires caution, because asking about whether someone has "considered" something as dramatic as quitting their lifelong profession is a long way from saying they will do so.

Serkes acknowledges this. "Do I expect doctors to quit en masse? " she said. "No, I don’t. Doctors don’t do anything en masse in the U.S."

• Because the response rate was only 4.3 percent, it’s hard to gauge how representative the survey was. A different recent survey of doctors with a similar response rate -- conducted by the Deloitte Center for Health Solutions -- took the extra step of weighting their sample "by years in practice, in combination with gender, region, and specialty to reflect the national distribution of physicians in the (American Medical Association) master file." DPMAF did not.

If a respondent knew about or could detect DPMAF’s conservative policy orientation from the questions, or if they learned about the group’s orientation during the weeks-long period they were given to turn in the survey, they might have been likelier to take part. If they disagreed with the group’s stance, they might have been less likely to take part.
 
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I have a little to add to this. I had a 10-pound dermoid removed and was found to have cancer of the ovary and fallopian tube. In researching I came across a woman from CANADA whose doctor would not remove a grapefruit-sized dermoid on her ovary because under Canada's healthcare it was considered an elective surgery. Don't tell me universal healthcare is so good! I am thankful to have had this sorted out before this disaster of a bill was passed. I'm also thankful for good private insurance and great doctors here in the USA! I agree with Jill, I pray a new president and the repeal of obamacare!
 
I read a lot of 'ifs' and assumptions in there. So if the poll was given by another group that is for the healthcare plan and the results were the same with the same questions, would that mean anything? lol
 

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